The Surge Succeeds

[GaryC 7]

Plus no-one can really deny at this point that GWB's victory declaration was a) premature and b ) political grandstanding.

As you well know GWB's "victory"declaration was about defeating Saddam. We did that. It wasn't premature. The troubles we are having now are something different. We had a war to kick Saddam out. We won that war. Now we have a different struggle against terrorists. That war is ongoing.

I thing the dems are passing up a golden opportunity. For a long time they said they wanted a "new direction". They wanted Rummy out. They wanted the Generals on the ground to call the shots. Well Bush has done that. It seems to be working. If I were the dems I would start using that. Reid, Pellosi and Mertha should all stand up and say "see I told you we were right". They should take credit and start saying we can win this war. I don't care who gets the political credit, all I want is to win. I honestly feel it is important to our country and our security that we win. If that means giving the dems credit then so be it.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

The insurgency in it's last throes again? We've been there a couple of years ago, haven't we? Or Mission Accomplished again? No wait, that was back in 2003. Or are we finally collecting them flowers?

[GaryC 7]

The insurgency in it's last throes again? We've been there a couple of years ago, haven't we? Or Mission Accomplished again? No wait, that was back in 2003. Or are we finally collecting them flowers?

I think you just want to see Bush imbarrased. I don't think you really care at all about our national security. For the third time. The "mission Accomplished" sign was about THAT SHIPS JOB IN THE WAR. That job was to KICK OUT SADDAM. We did that. That mission was ACCOMPLISHED! Jeez ET, get your head out of your azz.

Edited July 25, 2007 by GaryC

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Month-by-month counterpoints here.

The references for this counterpoint are CNN, Yahoo, MSNBC, Washington Post, BBC, etc., which are all more than happy to print body counts and list what they consider to be failures and are not in the least bit interested in reporting any success in Iraq.

I'm going to wait until September to see how the Surge has performed.

As you should. I'm just suspicious of absolute statements of fact being made when no substantive information is available to justify the claims.

"glass half empty" may be right - but I don't think we should be confusing wishful thinking with substantive, demonstrable results. That's self-deception surely?

Plus no-one can really deny at this point that GWB's victory declaration was a) premature and b ) political grandstanding.

yeah, like he's the first to ever do that.......

So what? It is what it is.

it could be filed under boosting troop morale too.

That's still generally under the umbrella of grandstanding. As much for media consumption by American TV viewers as it is for the troops.

ah but if he was really grandstanding, he'd have done so in congress with full media coverage from every network.....

Why? The TV cameras go where he is.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Plus no-one can really deny at this point that GWB's victory declaration was a) premature and b ) political grandstanding.

As you well know GWB's "victory"declaration was about defeating Saddam. We did that. It wasn't premature. The troubles we are having now are something different. We had a war to kick Saddam out. We won that war. Now we have a different struggle against terrorists. That war is ongoing.

Given the subsequent mess and apparent lack of planning or foresight for the current situation - its hard to see how that wasn't premature. Defend it however you like - its still grandstanding. And given the ongoing conflict (and lets be honest here - it didn't take a genius to figure out that there would be a long guerila war after Saddam was deposed) - it was hollow grandstanding at that.

[Ban Hammer 13,334]

Why? The TV cameras go where he is.

from every network? unlikely.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The insurgency in it's last throes again? We've been there a couple of years ago, haven't we? Or Mission Accomplished again? No wait, that was back in 2003. Or are we finally collecting them flowers?

I think you just want to see Bush imbarrased. I don't think you really care at all about our national security. For the third time. The "mission Accomplished" sign was about THAT SHIPS JOB IN THE WAR. That job was to KICK OUT SADDAM. We did that. That mission was ACCOMPLISHED! Jeez ET, get your head out of your azz.

Gary - there's a difference between high-sounding rhetoric and actual demonstrable results. So far we've had plenty of the former (via elected officials - not least the President) and precious little of the latter.

Why? The TV cameras go where he is.

from every network? unlikely.

Not really necessary when news stories are syndicated.

[Ban Hammer 13,334]

Why? The TV cameras go where he is.

from every network? unlikely.

Not really necessary when news stories are syndicated.

but we're not talking news stories are we?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Why? The TV cameras go where he is.

from every network? unlikely.

Not really necessary when news stories are syndicated.

but we're not talking news stories are we?

We're talking about the President landing on the deck of an aircraft carrier for a photo opportunity and a bunch of bald rhetoric about 'victory' which was broadcast globally. Yes - that is political grandstanding. No he is not the first to do it - but then again we apparently hate relativism - especially when its applied to an ongoing real-world issue.

[GaryC 7]

Gary - there's a difference between high-sounding rhetoric and actual demonstrable results. So far we've had plenty of the former (via elected officials - not least the President) and precious little of the latter.

You know full well what the sign meant but you and others still hang onto it like it's some sort of a battle cry. Very shallow indeed.

[Ban Hammer 13,334]

Why? The TV cameras go where he is.

from every network? unlikely.

Not really necessary when news stories are syndicated.

but we're not talking news stories are we?

We're talking about the President landing on the deck of an aircraft carrier for a photo opportunity and a bunch of bald rhetoric about 'victory' which was broadcast globally. Yes - that is political grandstanding. No he is not the first to do it - but then again we apparently hate relativism - especially when its applied to an ongoing real-world issue.

oh we're back to that again now that your attempt to get into syndicated news stories fell flat?

[dalegg 143]

I'm actually a little suprised by the lack of coverage lately in North Korea

[The_dip_sticks 0]

Its sad to see so many of our people die with out a cause, just because Bush wants to save face and cant accept his own mistakes. ITS EASY FOR BUSH TO WANT TO STAY IN IRAQ BUT LETS ASK HIM TO SEND HIS DAUGHTERS AND SEE HOW HE FEELS.

Edited July 25, 2007 by The_dip_sticks

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Gary - there's a difference between high-sounding rhetoric and actual demonstrable results. So far we've had plenty of the former (via elected officials - not least the President) and precious little of the latter.

You know full well what the sign meant but you and others still hang onto it like it's some sort of a battle cry. Very shallow indeed.

As I said - It is what it is. Lets not pretend that rhetorical symbolism and wish-fulfilment are the same as substantive, demonstrable results (That's what GWB's statement and your OP editorial have in common).

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Why? The TV cameras go where he is.

from every network? unlikely.

Not really necessary when news stories are syndicated.

but we're not talking news stories are we?

We're talking about the President landing on the deck of an aircraft carrier for a photo opportunity and a bunch of bald rhetoric about 'victory' which was broadcast globally. Yes - that is political grandstanding. No he is not the first to do it - but then again we apparently hate relativism - especially when its applied to an ongoing real-world issue.

oh we're back to that again now that your attempt to get into syndicated news stories fell flat?

Why did it fall flat? GWB's "mission accomplished" speech aired globally did it not?

Perhaps you should clarify what point you are making here - do you not think that it was political theatre & grandstanding?