Electric vehicles more expensive to fuel than gas-powered cars at end of 2022: consulting firm [merged threads]

[TBoneTX 45,246]

Biden Shows Off New Electric Car That Can Hold Over 17 Boxes Of Classified Documents

 

WASHINGTON, D.C. — President Biden took to the streets of D.C. today to promote a brand new electric car, capable of holding at least seventeen boxes of highly-classified documents.  [...]

 

https://babylonbee.com/news/biden-shows-off-new-electric-car-that-can-hold-over-17-boxes-of-classified-documents

 

[Dashinka 24,478]

18 hours ago, LIBrty4all said:

That is ridiculous.  And in cold climates, people are learning that charging has its issues.  The biggest one is chargers simply not working in extreme cold, to the need to pre-heat a battery (won't charge if it's below a certain temp), ensuring one HAS enough charge left to properly warm the battery, etc.  Not to mention reduced range (up to 41% less in the cold).  And more frequent charging stops.  I read an article about a guy who drove 2,000 miles in a model 3, and had to stop 18 times to recharge, but kept the total charge at 50% or less for faster charging.  That's an average of a charge every 111 miles.  Not very efficient IMO.

And then you have the stories of flooded EVs in Florida after the hurricanes this past year.  Catching fire unexpectedly after being under salt water for a while...  Yikes!

This is so true, and I would add for those looking for an EV truck to do any hauling, figure on having many stops.  As I have said so many times, EVs have some benefits particularly for those that take short trips, and have a place at home to charge.  They have major drawbacks relative to weight as compared to ICE vehicles, charging if you live in multi-family apartments with no assigned parking, hauling, living in very cold or very hot environments, etc., but they do accelerate very quickly (of course that is also a major drain on the batteries).

[LIBrty4all 3,749]

16 hours ago, Dashinka said:

This is so true, and I would add for those looking for an EV truck to do any hauling, figure on having many stops.  As I have said so many times, EVs have some benefits particularly for those that take short trips, and have a place at home to charge.  They have major drawbacks relative to weight as compared to ICE vehicles, charging if you live in multi-family apartments with no assigned parking, hauling, living in very cold or very hot environments, etc., but they do accelerate very quickly (of course that is also a major drain on the batteries).

I live in the city.  I have access to 15/30/50A hookups.  And I STILL won't buy one because they are WAY over-priced.  If one pays $20-35k more for an EV than an equivalent ICE, how many years of fuel did they just pre-pay?

At LEAST a decade.  Maybe two.  And then that battery replacement will be due...

Edited February 3, 2023 by LIBrty4all

[Dashinka 24,478]

2 hours ago, LIBrty4all said:

I live in the city.  I have access to 15/30/50A hookups.  And I STILL won't buy one because they are WAY over-priced.  If one pays $20-35k more for an EV than an equivalent ICE, how many years of fuel did they just pre-pay?

At LEAST a decade.  Maybe two.  And then that battery replacement will be due...

+1,000.  This is the reason we did not buy an EV for my wife when it was time to get her a new vehicle.  When the plan is to only keep the vehicle 3-4 years, the cost difference and payback period do not make economic sense.  Add to that the fact that EVs are not truly “green”, the decision was easy.

[Dashinka 24,478]

Been saying this for years.  The one thing that amazed me is the average number of miles driven annually by EVs is only a little more than 5,000.  Heck, I do 20k annually now.

 

As electric car sales surge, their benefits are increasingly criticized

 

However, if you live in a state that mostly burns coal for electric power—like Utah, Indiana, or Kentucky—your car’s carbon footprint will approach that of an ICE vehicle. And EVs only reduce emissions if people actually drive them instead of a comparable ICE vehicle. Researcher from the University of Chicago recently concluded tat he typical EV is only driven 5,300 miles per year, ‘about half the US fleet average’.”

 

It appears affluent EV owners use their electric cars when it’s convenient but rely on their conventional cars or trucks for about half their travel. Of course, an EV that mostly sits in a driveway doesn’t do much to bring down emissions. Which is why, as those University of Chicago researchers concluded, “electricity may not be as easily substituted for gasoline as previously thought.”

 

It is also important to consider the environmental impact of the car itself. A typical EV battery pack contains about 25 pounds of lithium, 30 pounds of cobalt, 60 pounds of nickel, 90 pounds of copper, and hundreds of pounds of other materials. All those minerals must be mined, processed (mostly in China), and shipped around the world—which takes energy and creates pollution. Is all that environmental disruption worth it?

 

https://nypost.com/2023/02/11/as-electric-car-sales-surge-their-benefits-are-increasingly-criticized/

[Dashinka 24,478]

I am going to add this one as well.  Of course the story is most EVs will be charged at home, but if that is not an option, costs are increasing.  For comparison, 1 gal of gasoline is about equal to 33.7 kwh of energy so at around $3 - $3.1 / gallon (recent price here in MI), that is 10-11 kwh/$1 and the recharge time is ~5 minutes.  If using Electrify America without pass, it is about 2 kwh/$1 or with pass about 3 kwh/$1.

 

https://electrek.co/2023/02/03/electrify-america-customers-raise-ev-charging-prices/

[TBoneTX 45,246]

Related-themed threads have been merged.

Edited February 13, 2023 by TBoneTX

[LIBrty4all 3,749]

And EV charger reliability is not doing so well in the UK and the US.

 

https://insideevs.com/news/652195/ev-charging-stations-reliability-low/ 

[LIBrty4all 3,749]

And while hybrids seem to be all the rage these days, they aren't all they are cracked up to be either...

 

Quote

Consumers May Have Been Misled on Plug-In Hybrid Efficiency

New studies show plug-in hybrids emissions tend to be higher than advertised and electric mileage tends to be much lower when used in real-world conditions.

 

Quote

But, a new report out of Europe suggests that they might not be the miracle midpoint between gas cars and EVs once thought. In fact, these kinds of cars could pollute “more than claimed” in city centers and on commutes.

 

https://jalopnik.com/consumers-may-have-been-misled-on-plug-in-hybrid-effici-1850095950

[Dashinka 24,478]

11 hours ago, LIBrty4all said:

And EV charger reliability is not doing so well in the UK and the US.

 

https://insideevs.com/news/652195/ev-charging-stations-reliability-low/ 

A better than a 1 in 5 chance of having trouble at a charging station?  That would really bite on a long trip when the vehicle was down to near zero range.  Maybe a new business, mobile charging, buy a surplus diesel generator, put it on a diesel flatbed, and go station yourself near a charging station.

[Dashinka 24,478]

10 hours ago, LIBrty4all said:

And while hybrids seem to be all the rage these days, they aren't all they are cracked up to be either...

 

 

 

https://jalopnik.com/consumers-may-have-been-misled-on-plug-in-hybrid-effici-1850095950

Definitely not the plug-in hybrids.  My brother and SIL bought a couple as they drive a lot of miles to their businesses, they are getting rid of them.  That being said, split or 2-mode hybrids can be efficient.

[mam521 2,056]

We have a little i3 that's for Kid1 to drive when they finally obtain their license.  It's a fun little go cart for booting around, grabbing groceries, etc and will prevent said child from going too far from home .  It is NOT good for anything beyond that.  One evening when it got close to freezing, the range dropped in half.  It's a little car with a small range to begin with...

 

Retrofitting a Stage 2 charger at home would require a whole panel upgrade and potentially bringing 200amp service to the house.  Not happening.  

 

We still have the truck which is used on a regular basis to haul whatever we need to haul and can be fueled at any local gas station within 5 minutes time.  Don't have to worry about tethering, don't have to worry about TX power grid reliability or rising electricity costs.  Vroom vroom! 

 

The whole EV thing is robbing from Paul to pay Peter, only less efficient when you have to take time to whittle your stick into a point to stab Paul. 

[Dashinka 24,478]

9 minutes ago, mam521 said:

We have a little i3 that's for Kid1 to drive when they finally obtain their license.  It's a fun little go cart for booting around, grabbing groceries, etc and will prevent said child from going too far from home .  It is NOT good for anything beyond that.  One evening when it got close to freezing, the range dropped in half.  It's a little car with a small range to begin with...

 

Retrofitting a Stage 2 charger at home would require a whole panel upgrade and potentially bringing 200amp service to the house.  Not happening.  

 

We still have the truck which is used on a regular basis to haul whatever we need to haul and can be fueled at any local gas station within 5 minutes time.  Don't have to worry about tethering, don't have to worry about TX power grid reliability or rising electricity costs.  Vroom vroom! 

 

The whole EV thing is robbing from Paul to pay Peter, only less efficient when you have to take time to whittle your stick into a point to stab Paul. 

We are in the same boat.  Our current service panel is maxed out.  I have not consulted an electrician, but I am fairly certain we would need another service.

 

 

[mam521 2,056]

3 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

We are in the same boat.  Our current service panel is maxed out.  I have not consulted an electrician, but I am fairly certain we would need another service.

 

 

We have 150amp service and the upgrade to 200 is in the ballpark of $11K I think?  So, like half the cost of the damned little car.  Not incentivized enough for that.  

 

Not to mention changing the panel is a pain in the rear because we have a whole home generator in the mix.  The side of the garage where the panel is looks like a bit of a dog's breakfast with all the switches, surge suppressors, wiring and panels!

Edited February 14, 2023 by mam521

[Boiler 45,442]

200amp seems common for most new installations where I am, now I assume most people most of the time use a fraction of that, the question is what happens if home charging becomes common, I doubt the distribution system assumes everybody is maxing out their panel.