Electric vehicles more expensive to fuel than gas-powered cars at end of 2022: consulting firm [merged threads]

[mam521 2,030]

16 minutes ago, Boiler said:

200amp seems common for most new installations where I am, now I assume most people most of the time use a fraction of that, the question is what happens if home charging becomes common, I doubt the distribution system assumes everybody is maxing out their panel.

Texas sure ain't!  We're already maxed out if you listen to the "conserve energy or we'll have rolling blackouts!" people!

[Dashinka 24,419]

1 hour ago, Boiler said:

200amp seems common for most new installations where I am, now I assume most people most of the time use a fraction of that, the question is what happens if home charging becomes common, I doubt the distribution system assumes everybody is maxing out their panel.

You are correct, most new/recent builds here have a 200 amp service, and sure, it is very rare that the AC, stove, oven and dryer are all working at the same time, but the panel I currently have is full, not sure where we will find another 240V circuit to power an EV.

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,370]

Hydrogen Fuel cell hybrid is the future 

[Dashinka 24,419]

1 hour ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

Hydrogen Fuel cell hybrid is the future 

Maybe.  There are still a lot of challenges as to H2 manufacture and storage.  Easiest and most efficient way to make H2 is by steam reforming of natural gas.

[TBoneTX 45,071]

2 hours ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

Hydrogen

Wasn't the Hilgenberg blimp powered by hydrogen?

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,370]

A little of topic but since touched on valentines day I need advice.  My wife gave me this along with some other gifts. I think its just cultural misunderstanding.  What do yall think

 

[TBoneTX 45,071]

What did socialists use for heat and light before using candles?

Electricity.

[LIBrty4all 3,749]

9 hours ago, Dashinka said:

You are correct, most new/recent builds here have a 200 amp service, and sure, it is very rare that the AC, stove, oven and dryer are all working at the same time, but the panel I currently have is full, not sure where we will find another 240V circuit to power an EV.

Solar is the key if you're going to buy an EV.  Get off the grid.

[Dashinka 24,419]

8 hours ago, LIBrty4all said:

Solar is the key if you're going to buy an EV.  Get off the grid.

Solar is not bad, and much like our refrigerator discussion, you need to be careful that you get a quality product.  Btw, you can get off the grid with a nice sized standby generator.

[Mike E 11,739]

On 2/13/2023 at 5:08 AM, Dashinka said:

cars when it’s convenient but rely on their conventional cars or trucks for about half their travel. Of course, an EV that mostly sits in a driveway doesn’t do much to bring down emissions. Which is why, as those University of Chicago researchers concluded, “electricity may not be as easily substituted for gasoline as previously thought.”

Sounds like affluent people who bought a toy that gets more use than a typical boat, jet ski, snow mobile, time share. 
 

“Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”. It is good to be in America. 
 

21 hours ago, mam521 said:

We have 150amp service and the upgrade to 200 is in the ballpark of $11K I think?  So, like half the cost of the damned little car.  Not incentivized enough for that.  

I had a 150A panel in my townhome in California.  Fortunately the contractor had both electric and gas lines for the dryer. Even more fortunately the previous owner opted for a gas dryer and so that 40A capacity was available for my EV.  
 

In my current home in Arizona my oven / stove is electric but there is a gas outlet.  So I gave the electrician the option of cannibalizing the oven / stove circuit while I shop for a new oven / stove. Wasn’t necessary as the panel was 200A and I have just a single HVAC. So got a 50A.  
 

If you can’t move an appliance to gas, another alternative for you is to install a natural gas generator and use that to charge your EV. A 14 kW generator costs $5000. You can get wired in 80A EV cheffing stations. At 80 percent draw: 80 * 240 * 0.8 =  15.4 kW. So dial down you EV to draw just: 14000 / 240 = 58A.  That would charge my model S at a rate of 41 miles of range per hour. 
 

One of  my most joyful moments as a EV owner was arriving at 6 lane intersection next to two American muscle cars revving their engines at the red light to race each other.  I said to my friend: “watch this”. Light turns green and I whupped them by 200 feet before they gave up.  It was a 50 mph speed limit which I didn’t exceed.  As satisfying as a speed boat without the hassle or the trailer. 

Edited February 15, 2023 by Mike E

[LIBrty4all 3,749]

Another, and much simpler option, is to share the dryer circuit with the car.  Just don't dry and charge at the same time.  Or do like I do and hang your clothes to dry (helps your clothes last longer, plus saves on electricity.  Haven't used a dryer in years.)

[mam521 2,030]

 

3 hours ago, Mike E said:

If you can’t move an appliance to gas, another alternative for you is to install a natural gas generator and use that to charge your EV. A 14 kW generator costs $5000. You can get wired in 80A EV cheffing stations. At 80 percent draw: 80 * 240 * 0.8 =  15.4 kW. So dial down you EV to draw just: 14000 / 240 = 58A.  That would charge my model S at a rate of 41 miles of range per hour. 

We spent a small fortune installing a whole home back up generator.  There is no way I'm spending $5k or nearly the quarter of the cost of the car to purchase an additional generator to charge it.  The economics don't make sense, nor does the whole concept of burning fuel to charge the car.  The car can trickle charge from it's level 1 wall charger where the outlet is easily accessible from the driveway and not on the opposite side of the house from the utility connects, or I'll drive my truck if I'm going to burn fuel.  

 

1 hour ago, LIBrty4all said:

Another, and much simpler option, is to share the dryer circuit with the car.  Just don't dry and charge at the same time.  Or do like I do and hang your clothes to dry (helps your clothes last longer, plus saves on electricity.  Haven't used a dryer in years.)

If the humidity wasn't ridiculous and it didn't pollen so bad, I'd hang clothes.  Grew up hanging clothes and quite like summer, line dried clothes.  Unfortunately, they'd just turn yellow from the pollen and go moldy before they properly dried down here.  

[Mike E 11,739]

10 minutes ago, mam521 said:

We spent a small fortune installing a whole home back up generator

So why wouldn’t you charge your EV with your backup generator?

 

1 hour ago, LIBrty4all said:

Another, and much simpler option, is to share the dryer circuit with the car.  Just don't dry and charge at the same time.

Yes if it meets code.  

1 hour ago, LIBrty4all said:

 

  Or do like I do and hang your clothes to dry (helps your clothes last longer, plus saves on electricity.  Haven't used a dryer in years.)

HOA doesn’t want that. Drives down property values. 

[TBoneTX 45,071]

54 minutes ago, mam521 said:

If the humidity wasn't ridiculous and it didn't pollen so bad, I'd hang clothes.  [...]  Unfortunately, they'd just turn yellow from the pollen and go moldy before they properly dried down here.

South Texas seasons:

   Summer

   January

   Pollen

[mam521 2,030]

18 minutes ago, Mike E said:

So why wouldn’t you charge your EV with your backup generator?

 

HOA doesn’t want that. Drives down property values. 

1. It's not a portable generator.  It's a large, encased unit sitting on a concrete slab with hard wired electrical connections to the main breaker box and transfer switch and plumbed gas lines.

2. Generator is tied into an automatic transfer switch.

3. It's got a warranty that is related to the number of run hours.

4. My neighbours would have a complete fit listening to the generator run to charge the car and quite frankly, its a waste of resources.  It's designed to power my whole house in the event the grid goes down. How is firing that big unit up to charge my car more environmentally friendly than driving my ICE vehicles?

5. It's on the opposite side of the house to the driveway.

6. It still doesn't change the availability of a 240v plug because even if I overrode the transfer switch, the generator doesn't have one on the unit. 

 

Our HOA doesn't like clothes lines either, but they don't like anything so whatever.