CR-1 Visa Application - Struggling with income requirements for I-864

[Robbiekeane 0]

Hi everyone. Firstly thank you in advance for any advice. 
 

Hoping to get some advice as to how/if we can satisfy the income requirements for the I-864 Affidavit of support, as part of the a CR-1 Spousal visa application. I feel likes it’s a bit complex but here goes…

I am the beneficiary, a UK citizen living in Australia, along with my soon to be wife (wedding a couple of weeks out) who is an American Citizen. We met in the states at work as I was over there on an L-1 Visa. I got the nod for a transfer to Australia and we both got roles sorted (still at same company). We moved in Feb 2022, and she continued to earn US income for a few months. We are looking to move back and are starting the process for the CR-1 Spousal Visa for a green card. 

I am concerned about meeting the minimum income threshold requirement. The sponsor earned well over $22,000 for the last few years in the US($150k+), as well as 2022 return about to be submitted, despite leaving half way through the year. We both earn well above that amount in Australia but understand this doesn’t count as we can’t show it’ll continue when we move back. If my understanding is correct, the only option is assets. 
 

A joint sponsor is unfortunately not an option for us.

 

Here is an approx summary of our assets:

Sponsor:
- 401k with a value of approximately $180k US. 
- Savings of approximately $10k US

Beneficiary (myself)
- a US 401k of $25k US
- a US brokerage account with approx $20k portfolio 
- US based crypto of $3k
- UK property with net equity of $180k US (property appraisal £290k, mortgage of £130k)
- Above mentioned property rental income of approx $12k per year
- Australia savings account with approx $25k US. 

Joint
- We will have approximately $40k US in savings in an Australian joint account 

What I am not clear on is:
- is her 401k counted in the asset calculation? Is it sufficient? 
- can my assets (any of them) be counted in the calculation? Are they sufficient? Unsure it’s it’s 3x or 5x from research.

 

We both earn approx $150k US base plus $30k bonus in Australia. We will not have job offers in the US at the time of a consulate interview (in Sydney)

Appreciate any advice, thanks

[Boiler 45,445]

You are a couple of years out but the easiest solution is to use a joint sponsor 

[pushbrk 12,870]

1 hour ago, Robbiekeane said:

Hi everyone. Firstly thank you in advance for any advice. 
 

Hoping to get some advice as to how/if we can satisfy the income requirements for the I-864 Affidavit of support, as part of the a CR-1 Spousal visa application. I feel likes it’s a bit complex but here goes…

I am the beneficiary, a UK citizen living in Australia, along with my soon to be wife (wedding a couple of weeks out) who is an American Citizen. We met in the states at work as I was over there on an L-1 Visa. I got the nod for a transfer to Australia and we both got roles sorted (still at same company). We moved in Feb 2022, and she continued to earn US income for a few months. We are looking to move back and are starting the process for the CR-1 Spousal Visa for a green card. 

I am concerned about meeting the minimum income threshold requirement. The sponsor earned well over $22,000 for the last few years in the US($150k+), as well as 2022 return about to be submitted, despite leaving half way through the year. We both earn well above that amount in Australia but understand this doesn’t count as we can’t show it’ll continue when we move back. If my understanding is correct, the only option is assets. 
 

A joint sponsor is unfortunately not an option for us.

 

Here is an approx summary of our assets:

Sponsor:
- 401k with a value of approximately $180k US. 
- Savings of approximately $10k US

Beneficiary (myself)
- a US 401k of $25k US
- a US brokerage account with approx $20k portfolio 
- US based crypto of $3k
- UK property with net equity of $180k US (property appraisal £290k, mortgage of £130k)
- Above mentioned property rental income of approx $12k per year
- Australia savings account with approx $25k US. 

Joint
- We will have approximately $40k US in savings in an Australian joint account 

What I am not clear on is:
- is her 401k counted in the asset calculation? Is it sufficient? 
- can my assets (any of them) be counted in the calculation? Are they sufficient? Unsure it’s it’s 3x or 5x from research.

 

We both earn approx $150k US base plus $30k bonus in Australia. We will not have job offers in the US at the time of a consulate interview (in Sydney)

Appreciate any advice, thanks

Your plans may need to change.  Selling the house in the UK so the equity is liquid would be one solution.  Another would be for the US Citizen to return to the US and go to work there.  Note you do not deal with the actual affidavit of support until a year or so after you start the process, but it's good to be thinking about it now.

Yes, 401k is "counted" but also discounted because converting it to liquid cash carries severe penalties.

 

Another helpful thing to do is increase the balance in your savings accounts in the next year.

Edited January 20, 2023 by pushbrk

[Chancy 6,241]

2 hours ago, Robbiekeane said:

I got the nod for a transfer to Australia and we both got roles sorted (still at same company).

 

Can your wife-to-be get a transfer to a US branch of the same company she works for now?

 

Edited January 21, 2023 by Chancy

[Robbiekeane 0]

4 hours ago, pushbrk said:

Your plans may need to change.  Selling the house in the UK so the equity is liquid would be one solution.  Another would be for the US Citizen to return to the US and go to work there.  Note you do not deal with the actual affidavit of support until a year or so after you start the process, but it's good to be thinking about it now.

Yes, 401k is "counted" but also discounted because converting it to liquid cash carries severe penalties.

 

Another helpful thing to do is increase the balance in your savings accounts in the next year.

Thank you for your response. I’ve read a few things online that says that property can be used as an asset if when you discount any mortgage etc against it. Wasn’t aware I’d have to sell and have the cash. 
 

RE the 401k - if we took off the penalties and likely tax I think it’d be around 50% ($90k), and then our joint savings of $40k would bring us to $130k give or take. This would be more than 5 x the $22k threshold before taking into account my own assets (house, 401k, Brokerage savings). Do you think that would be adequate?
 

I could then also include my property on top of that but then it wouldn’t be the only thing being relied on.

[Robbiekeane 0]

2 hours ago, Chancy said:

 

Can your wife-to-be get a transfer to a US branch of the same company she works for now?

 

Thank you for your reply! We are both at the same big multinational and I think it’s possible, that she could engineer herself a return move and have a job offer in hand prior to a consulate interview. Some risk around this though I guess. 

[pushbrk 12,870]

22 minutes ago, Robbiekeane said:

Thank you for your response. I’ve read a few things online that says that property can be used as an asset if when you discount any mortgage etc against it. Wasn’t aware I’d have to sell and have the cash. 
 

RE the 401k - if we took off the penalties and likely tax I think it’d be around 50% ($90k), and then our joint savings of $40k would bring us to $130k give or take. This would be more than 5 x the $22k threshold before taking into account my own assets (house, 401k, Brokerage savings). Do you think that would be adequate?
 

I could then also include my property on top of that but then it wouldn’t be the only thing being relied on.

"I've read a few things online...." is a known bad source of real information.  Start by becoming A-Students of the I-864 instructions, then ask here any remaining questions.  If anybody here gives you bad info, it will get corrected.

 

I didn't say you had to sell the house. I said the equity is not liquid.  See instructions with regard to liquidity.

 

Yes, the 401k and savings (discounted) might well carry the day.  Note that for a spouse the standard is 3X not 5X.  

 

Seems reasonable you'll add to your saving in the next year.  Note also that "before the interview" is not the applicable timeline.  Instead, think "at the NVC stage" again a year or so from now.

[Chancy 6,241]

21 minutes ago, Robbiekeane said:

We are both at the same big multinational and I think it’s possible, that she could engineer herself a return move and have a job offer in hand prior to a consulate interview.

 

The reason I asked is that the much faster DCF process could be an option for you if your wife can get a job transfer to the US.  Imminent job relocation to the US (for the US citizen) is one of the exceptional circumstances accepted for DCF.  If you would like to immigrate in the fastest way possible, you and your wife might want to consider it.  The I-130, I-864, and other documentation requirements would be the same, but DCF would let you bypass the USCIS and NVC stages, and just interact directly with the consulate.

 

Even if you go through the normal CR1 process (instead of DCF), the USC having a job transfer offer would still be beneficial in meeting the I-864 requirements.  If the USC's income will continue from the same company after moving to the US, the current foreign income may be used as qualifying income for the I-864.  You may not need a joint sponsor, if that income is above the minimum threshold.

 

[pushbrk 12,870]

1 hour ago, Chancy said:

 

The reason I asked is that the much faster DCF process could be an option for you if your wife can get a job transfer to the US.  Imminent job relocation to the US (for the US citizen) is one of the exceptional circumstances accepted for DCF.  If you would like to immigrate in the fastest way possible, you and your wife might want to consider it.  The I-130, I-864, and other documentation requirements would be the same, but DCF would let you bypass the USCIS and NVC stages, and just interact directly with the consulate.

 

Even if you go through the normal CR1 process (instead of DCF), the USC having a job transfer offer would still be beneficial in meeting the I-864 requirements.  If the USC's income will continue from the same company after moving to the US, the current foreign income may be used as qualifying income for the I-864.  You may not need a joint sponsor, if that income is above the minimum threshold.

 

I completely agree that the best solution for getting both to the USA (also fastest) is for the US Citizen to get a job transfer and pursue DCF.

[Robbiekeane 0]

2 hours ago, pushbrk said:

"I've read a few things online...." is a known bad source of real information.  Start by becoming A-Students of the I-864 instructions, then ask here any remaining questions.  If anybody here gives you bad info, it will get corrected.

 

I didn't say you had to sell the house. I said the equity is not liquid.  See instructions with regard to liquidity.

 

Yes, the 401k and savings (discounted) might well carry the day.  Note that for a spouse the standard is 3X not 5X.  

 

Seems reasonable you'll add to your saving in the next year.  Note also that "before the interview" is not the applicable timeline.  Instead, think "at the NVC stage" again a year or so from now.

Thank you. Upon studying the instructions again on the USCIS website, the following piece is of note: 

 

 

If your total household income does not meet the requirement, you may submit evidence of the value of your assets, the sponsored immigrant’s assets, and/or assets of a household member that can be used, if necessary, for the support of the intending immigrants. The value of assets of all of these persons may be combined in order to meet the necessary requirement.
Only assets that can be converted into cash within one year and without considerable hardship or financial loss to the owner may be included. The owner of the asset must include a description of the asset, proof of ownership, and the basis for the owner’s claim of its net cash value.
You may include the net value of your home as an asset. The net value of the home is the appraised value of the home, minus the sum of any and all loans secured by a mortgage, trust deed, or other lien on the home. If you wish to include the net value of your home, then you must include documentation demonstrating that you own it, a recent appraisal by a licensed appraiser, and evidence of the amount of any and all loans secured by a mortgage, trust deed, or other lien on the home. 
 

Regarding the pieces in bold - a few questions:

- Would the 401k post penalty and post tax be considered as not imposing “considerable hardship” on the sponsor? 
- I interpret the above information on including the net value of a home as applying to the beneficiary/intended immigrant also. I would also say it can be liquidated within a year. Would you agree with that?

 

The above two (even just one) as well as our other savings should put us well above the ~$66k (3 x the ~$22k threshold) if they apply. 
 

 

 

 

[Robbiekeane 0]

49 minutes ago, pushbrk said:

I completely agree that the best solution for getting both to the USA (also fastest) is for the US Citizen to get a job transfer and pursue DCF.

 

2 hours ago, Chancy said:

 

The reason I asked is that the much faster DCF process could be an option for you if your wife can get a job transfer to the US.  Imminent job relocation to the US (for the US citizen) is one of the exceptional circumstances accepted for DCF.  If you would like to immigrate in the fastest way possible, you and your wife might want to consider it.  The I-130, I-864, and other documentation requirements would be the same, but DCF would let you bypass the USCIS and NVC stages, and just interact directly with the consulate.

 

Even if you go through the normal CR1 process (instead of DCF), the USC having a job transfer offer would still be beneficial in meeting the I-864 requirements.  If the USC's income will continue from the same company after moving to the US, the current foreign income may be used as qualifying income for the I-864.  You may not need a joint sponsor, if that income is above the minimum threshold.

 

Thank you for this. I had read about this on posts on this site but had not thought about it as a viable path until now.

 

It is likely she will get a transfer back at some stage with our company. It sounds like if this did happen, DCF would be the most efficient way forwards (assuming she gets the offer with a start date delayed a few months, or we are willing to spend some time apart). Not only quicker but do your point can use the offer in hand to satisfy the I bc one requirements

 

However, if she does not for whatever reason, but instead gets a job offer from another US company, would we still qualify for DCF? If no, seems a question of weighing the risks. If yes, would this offer also satisfy the income requirements, or would we have to look at assets or joint sponsors? If the latter then I guess that’s still better/more efficient than the current planned standard CR-1 route, right? 
 

Appreciate your help 

[pushbrk 12,870]

2 minutes ago, Robbiekeane said:

Thank you. Upon studying the instructions again on the USCIS website, the following piece is of note: 

 

 

If your total household income does not meet the requirement, you may submit evidence of the value of your assets, the sponsored immigrant’s assets, and/or assets of a household member that can be used, if necessary, for the support of the intending immigrants. The value of assets of all of these persons may be combined in order to meet the necessary requirement.
Only assets that can be converted into cash within one year and without considerable hardship or financial loss to the owner may be included. The owner of the asset must include a description of the asset, proof of ownership, and the basis for the owner’s claim of its net cash value.
You may include the net value of your home as an asset. The net value of the home is the appraised value of the home, minus the sum of any and all loans secured by a mortgage, trust deed, or other lien on the home. If you wish to include the net value of your home, then you must include documentation demonstrating that you own it, a recent appraisal by a licensed appraiser, and evidence of the amount of any and all loans secured by a mortgage, trust deed, or other lien on the home. 
 

Regarding the pieces in bold - a few questions:

- Would the 401k post penalty and post tax be considered as not imposing “considerable hardship” on the sponsor? 
- I interpret the above information on including the net value of a home as applying to the beneficiary/intended immigrant also. I would also say it can be liquidated within a year. Would you agree with that?

 

The above two (even just one) as well as our other savings should put us well above the ~$66k (3 x the ~$22k threshold) if they apply. 
 

 

 

 

You really need to stop thinking about minimums and possibilities.  A Consular Officer is going to make a judgment call based on the totality of circumstances, NOT some list ot technicalities.  Whether the loss of half both your retirement savings will be considered considerable hardship is impossible to predict.  Equity in the sponsor's primary residence is generally considered to be a big hardship if it's necessary to liquidate to support the immigrant.  Since you don't currently live in the residence in question, that's unpredictable too.

 

It is easy how to predict a continuing or current US based employment income will be considered.

[pushbrk 12,870]

4 minutes ago, Robbiekeane said:

 

Thank you for this. I had read about this on posts on this site but had not thought about it as a viable path until now.

 

It is likely she will get a transfer back at some stage with our company. It sounds like if this did happen, DCF would be the most efficient way forwards (assuming she gets the offer with a start date delayed a few months, or we are willing to spend some time apart). Not only quicker but do your point can use the offer in hand to satisfy the I bc one requirements

 

However, if she does not for whatever reason, but instead gets a job offer from another US company, would we still qualify for DCF? If no, seems a question of weighing the risks. If yes, would this offer also satisfy the income requirements, or would we have to look at assets or joint sponsors? If the latter then I guess that’s still better/more efficient than the current planned standard CR-1 route, right? 
 

Appreciate your help 

Bear in mind that once you file the I-130 to start a visa process, you cannot switch to DCF.  For this possibility to work, you ask about and get documentation of the transfer BEFORE you do anything else.

 

Note that most members in the USA are sleeping now.  I'm in the Philippines seeing your question.

 

Edited January 21, 2023 by pushbrk

[Robbiekeane 0]

14 minutes ago, pushbrk said:

You really need to stop thinking about minimums and possibilities.  A Consular Officer is going to make a judgment call based on the totality of circumstances, NOT some list ot technicalities.  Whether the loss of half both your retirement savings will be considered considerable hardship is impossible to predict.  Equity in the sponsor's primary residence is generally considered to be a big hardship if it's necessary to liquidate to support the immigrant.  Since you don't currently live in the residence in question, that's unpredictable too.

 

It is easy how to predict a continuing or current US based employment income will be considered.

It’s equity in the beneficiaries (mine) rental property in the UK, not the sponsors. But point taken, thanks. 

[Robbiekeane 0]

13 minutes ago, pushbrk said:

Bear in mind that once you file the I-130 to start a visa process, you cannot switch to DCF.  For this possibility to work, you ask about and get documentation of the transfer BEFORE you do anything else.

 

Note that most members in the USA are sleeping now.  I'm in the Philippines seeing your question.

 

Yes understood. Not filed yet, and hence trying to understand the best route before hand. Done plenty of asking around but it will come down to timing and circumstance. Need to understand if another job offer from another company would help at all or not. 
 

understood on the time zones - I’m in Melbourne Australia and people can answer whenever they please if they are so kind as to offer their advice