Spanish/Hispanic/Latino names and life in the USA

[Seven 24]

Hello everyone!

 

After 12 years living in the USA I want my name to be corrected for what it actually is in my Spanish passport and birth certificate because well, that's who I am. Living in the USA one can put whatever name they want and change it whenever. However, that it is legal and permitted does not mean that all names are treated with respect or understanding because they are another format or whatever.

 

In my country of origin (Spain) middle names do not exist so I actually have a compound first name for example Ana Maria and a compound last name (one from my dad, one from my mum): for example Janer Perelló. None of my names have a hyphen, just a space. So I am going to talk about stuff using that fictitious example name: Ana Maria Janer Perelló.

 

When asking some people about their experience some told me that:

 

1. In the USA even if you write everything right, most places/people will change your name to be Ana Perelló, ignoring anything in between. These people decided to write their name in several places in many different ways given their frustration. Ana Janer, Ana-Maria Janer-Perelló, etc. But would not that cause more issues? Then they said that it was not really a problem but decided to give their children a hyphenated surname or just one surname because ¨poor guys.¨Now, if it was not a problem to you, why did you do it different for your children? Others, decided to follow their same format, spaces, no hyphens for their children.

 

2. In the USA they do not understand the two last names or two first names so they will want to put everything  in between as your middle name and you will have serious issues even if you write it right and will have to call to many places to attempt to get things fixed. Even then, some places will not want to fix it.

 

3. In the USA they do not understand the two last names/two first names so it is best to put the hyphen. These people hyphenated their first name Ana-Maria and last name Janer-Perelló to decrease the chances that what falls in between is considered a middle name. However, they still say that it can be a pain and that it is a battle to have to clarify what belongs to what.

 

So here are my thoughts. I do not understand why someone who specifically writes two words on the first name field, leaves blank the middle name, and puts two words in the last name field has to go through any grief of others not following what they entered so now other people or agencies have the right to change others legal name? just because they want to or do not understand the format? Also, why people have to change their name adding a hyphen because apparently others do not want to understand? Is not it a country of freedom and immigrants? At this point I am so confused thinking that if I correct my name the way it is in my country of origin with the format explained above I will live a life of constant misunderstandings and bureaucratic hell. Is it really that bad? What are your experiences? 

 

Thank you in advance for your time!

[jackiegringa 419]

I would not say constant misunderstanding and bureaucratic hell but yes, in a lot of times you will have to correct that "Maria" isn't a middle name. Haven't encounter the adding of hyphens myself but I believe it. I have one name and two surnames like "Jane Doe Smith" and have found multiple forms filled by others with "Doe" as my middle name, which is wrong. Sometimes, forms are not long enough for names like ours, which can also be frustrating.

 

In government forms that are truly important I have not had issues as most of those you are the one providing the information - for example IRS tax filing or SSN application. In person services will often ask to confirm if everything is correct and you can check and make corrections on the spot. Your passport would also have the correct designation, few state ID I have seen too. As long as those important documents are correct, everything else is secondary apart from personal preference. I don't really care my name gets classified wrong on my Amazon account or whatever but that's just me.

 

I also go by "Jame Smith" only, omitting one surname for simplicity and that is something that has to be reported to USCIS when filing I-485/I-751/N-400, something to keep in mind.

[SalishSea 17,801]

1 hour ago, Seven said:

Hello everyone!

 

After 12 years living in the USA I want my name to be corrected for what it actually is in my Spanish passport and birth certificate because well, that's who I am. Living in the USA one can put whatever name they want and change it whenever. However, that it is legal and permitted does not mean that all names are treated with respect or understanding because they are another format or whatever.

 

In my country of origin (Spain) middle names do not exist so I actually have a compound first name for example Ana Maria and a compound last name (one from my dad, one from my mum): for example Janer Perelló. None of my names have a hyphen, just a space. So I am going to talk about stuff using that fictitious example name: Ana Maria Janer Perelló.

 

When asking some people about their experience some told me that:

 

1. In the USA even if you write everything right, most places/people will change your name to be Ana Perelló, ignoring anything in between. These people decided to write their name in several places in many different ways given their frustration. Ana Janer, Ana-Maria Janer-Perelló, etc. But would not that cause more issues? Then they said that it was not really a problem but decided to give their children a hyphenated surname or just one surname because ¨poor guys.¨Now, if it was not a problem to you, why did you do it different for your children? Others, decided to follow their same format, spaces, no hyphens for their children.

 

2. In the USA they do not understand the two last names or two first names so they will want to put everything  in between as your middle name and you will have serious issues even if you write it right and will have to call to many places to attempt to get things fixed. Even then, some places will not want to fix it.

 

3. In the USA they do not understand the two last names/two first names so it is best to put the hyphen. These people hyphenated their first name Ana-Maria and last name Janer-Perelló to decrease the chances that what falls in between is considered a middle name. However, they still say that it can be a pain and that it is a battle to have to clarify what belongs to what.

 

So here are my thoughts. I do not understand why someone who specifically writes two words on the first name field, leaves blank the middle name, and puts two words in the last name field has to go through any grief of others not following what they entered so now other people or agencies have the right to change others legal name? just because they want to or do not understand the format? Also, why people have to change their name adding a hyphen because apparently others do not want to understand? Is not it a country of freedom and immigrants? At this point I am so confused thinking that if I correct my name the way it is in my country of origin with the format explained above I will live a life of constant misunderstandings and bureaucratic hell. Is it really that bad? What are your experiences? 

 

Thank you in advance for your time!

It isn’t a matter of “not understanding”:  naming conventions have a legal component.   I assume it is at the state level.   For example, I wanted my children to have my last name in their names, but I didn’t want to do a hyphenated last name, so legally they have two middle names: the “given” middle name, and my birth last name.  

 

I work in health care, and we have many Latinx patients with traditional naming formats.   The way we use their name on documentation, and in addressing them is however they have reported it to us when they became our patients.  
 

You do have the right to have whatever name you want, but be aware that without a hyphen, it may not legally be considered a surname.

[TBoneTX 45,259]

It's simplest to hyphenate.  Honestly.

[Seven 24]

6 hours ago, Jorgedig said:

It isn’t a matter of “not understanding”:  naming conventions have a legal component.   I assume it is at the state level.   For example, I wanted my children to have my last name in their names, but I didn’t want to do a hyphenated last name, so legally they have two middle names: the “given” middle name, and my birth last name.  

 

I work in health care, and we have many Latinx patients with traditional naming formats.   The way we use their name on documentation, and in addressing them is however they have reported it to us when they became our patients.  
 

You do have the right to have whatever name you want, but be aware that without a hyphen, it may not legally be considered a surname.

I don’t understand why you said that without a hyphen it may not legally be considered a surname. If in the citizenship and SSN that’s what it shows as legal surname, the double barreled last name, that’s the legal surname so who has the authority to consider it not legal? I am confused. Sorry if I misunderstood what you wrote

Edited January 21, 2023 by Seven

[Seven 24]

6 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

It's simplest to hyphenate.  Honestly.

Why is that? 

[top_secret 2,406]

And then there are Filipino names where the middle name is essentially the same as a second last name as used in Central and South America although the order of the names is reversed, and a Filipino middle name is likely to be a common Spanish Surname, yet it is definitely a middle name and not a surname.   This resulted in all kinds of confusion with "last names" when we were traveling in Central and South America on everything from COVID tests, airline tickets, to almost our marriage certificate (corrected and saved just in time).  They inevitably put her middle name as her first last name and her actual last name as her second last We chose to just be amused by the confusion rather than to be offended and we realized it is an issue to be aware of.

 

Like over a century ago, in a much less enlightened age, when my great grandfather immigrated from Europe, our family name contained an umlaut ü.  At that time some border agent processing immigrants sternly told him that was not allowed and summarily assigned our family a "nice English name" instead which sticks to this day.  Things could be worse.

 

One trick that works on some computer forms that will not allow spaces, is to hold the Alt key and hit the numbers 0160 .    When you release the Alt key the curser should advance one "space", leaving an "invisible" character that is not a space.   (assuming a computer form does not allow spaces but does allow characters.)

[SalishSea 17,801]

3 hours ago, Seven said:

I don’t understand why you said that without a hyphen it may not legally be considered a surname. If in the citizenship and SSN that’s what it shows as legal surname, the double barreled last name, that’s the legal surname so who has the authority to consider it not legal? I am confused. Sorry if I misunderstood what you wrote

I don’t know the legal intricacies, or like I said- whether it is at the state or federal level.   I’m just reporting my personal experience with naming my children who were born in the state of Washington.   I did not want them to have a hyphenated last name, so the absence of that hyphen means they have two middle names.

 

A fictional example: :  Gabriel Patrick Larson-Hamilton vs Gabriel Patrick Larson Hamilton.   The latter is what appears  on a kid’s birth certificate, SS card and passport.   On most other forms and records, it was easiest (and completely legal) to shorten it to Gabriel Hamilton, Gabriel P. Hamilton, etc.   The “Larson” doesn’t even appear on his drivers license.

 

The hyphen would have ensured it was ALWAYS Gabriel Larson-Hamilton as his full legal name.

 

Since middle names are optional (and not everyone even has one), I suppose there had to be some way to designate whether a name is a middle name, or part of a surname.

 

 

Edited January 21, 2023 by Jorgedig

[TBoneTX 45,259]

3 hours ago, Seven said:

Why is that? 

Hyphenated names leave no doubt in the minds of those who would otherwise make mistakes regarding the names.

[Mike E 11,739]

Some people do the mixed case / concatenate thing: 
 

Joe Robert Jones Smith ==>

 

First name: Joe

Middle name: Robert

Surname: JonesSmith

 

 

[Seven 24]

1 hour ago, Jorgedig said:

I don’t know the legal intricacies, or like I said- whether it is at the state or federal level.   I’m just reporting my personal experience with naming my children who were born in the state of Washington.   I did not want them to have a hyphenated last name, so the absence of that hyphen means they have two middle names.

 

A fictional example: :  Gabriel Patrick Larson-Hamilton vs Gabriel Patrick Larson Hamilton.   The latter is what appears  on a kid’s birth certificate, SS card and passport.   On most other forms and records, it was easiest (and completely legal) to shorten it to Gabriel Hamilton, Gabriel P. Hamilton, etc.   The “Larson” doesn’t even appear on his drivers license.

 

The hyphen would have ensured it was ALWAYS Gabriel Larson-Hamilton as his full legal name.

 

Since middle names are optional (and not everyone even has one), I suppose there had to be some way to designate whether a name is a middle name, or part of a surname.

 

 

Oh I see. It seems to me that if it was allowed in the surname at the SSN in your state somewhere was confused as the middle name and if it was not corrected then perhaps is wrongly listed as if it was a middle name when in reality is not. Sorry that happened. People can’t really understand sometimes seems like.

[Lemonslice 4,831]

2 hours ago, Mike E said:

Some people do the mixed case / concatenate thing: 
 

Joe Robert Jones Smith ==>

 

First name: Joe

Middle name: Robert

Surname: JonesSmith

 

 

Concatenate is one of my favourite Excel functions. 

 

 

[carmel34 3,620]

My husband who came to the US on a CR-1 visa has two last names, separated by a space, as his surname: e.g., Jones Smith, no hyphen.  No middle name, and one given name: e.g., John.  He has had no problems whatsoever.  His Brazilian passport, CR-1 visa, green card, driver's license, SS card, IRS tax returns, bank accounts, health insurance, credit cards, I-751, N-400, etc. all have his name this way:

 

first name: John

middle name:

last name/surname: Jones Smith

Edited January 21, 2023 by carmel34

[Seven 24]

9 hours ago, carmel34 said:

My husband who came to the US on a CR-1 visa has two last names, separated by a space, as his surname: e.g., Jones Smith, no hyphen.  No middle name, and one given name: e.g., John.  He has had no problems whatsoever.  His Brazilian passport, CR-1 visa, green card, driver's license, SS card, IRS tax returns, bank accounts, health insurance, credit cards, I-751, N-400, etc. all have his name this way:

 

first name: John

middle name:

last name/surname: Jones Smith

Good to hear a story where no one has messed the first surname and taken it as a middle name. Thanks for sharing