Airlines want you to get comfortable with flying without a co-pilot. Pilots—and fliers—are not convinced

[LIBrty4all 3,749]

On 11/25/2022 at 2:32 PM, Dashinka said:

Drones are not really self flying though are they?  I may be wrong, but I thought drones were controlled from a ground station operator.

They can be either (hand flown or be on autopilot).  But it's really not much different than a plane with two pilots (or even one pilot).  Typically, the pilot(s) take off and land, but then the autopilot does 98% of the work, to include auto landing if the need arises (infrequent today, but an easy switch to flip on at any point).  The biggest task of the pilot(s) is to remain in communication with different air traffic controllers (kinda hard to have highway signs and traffic lights at 39,000 feet), as well as to make any flight plan changes enroute, and of course to deal with any emergency/equipment failures that arise.

 

 

[Dashinka 24,438]

8 minutes ago, LIBrty4all said:

They can be either (hand flown or be on autopilot).  But it's really not much different than a plane with two pilots (or even one pilot).  Typically, the pilot(s) take off and land, but then the autopilot does 98% of the work, to include auto landing if the need arises (infrequent today, but an easy switch to flip on at any point).  The biggest task of the pilot(s) is to remain in communication with different air traffic controllers (kinda hard to have highway signs and traffic lights at 39,000 feet), as well as to make any flight plan changes enroute, and of course to deal with any emergency/equipment failures that arise.

 

 

This seems to be a big one.

[LIBrty4all 3,749]

6 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

This seems to be a big one.

THE biggest.  But real-time monitoring of aircraft systems grows constantly.  Heck, even 15 years ago computers on the ground were able to detect a problem before a part failed, and said part and maintenance personnel were on the ground waiting to change the (not quite yet) defective part when the plane landed.

Of course, there are those failures that happen in the air, but between a computer, a pilot in a room, and a pilot onboard, just about everything that can happen can be dealt with, save for the plane coming apart mid-air.

[Ban Hammer 13,282]

16 minutes ago, LIBrty4all said:

Of course, there are those failures that happen in the air, but between a computer, a pilot in a room, and a pilot onboard, just about everything that can happen can be dealt with, save for the plane coming apart mid-air.

like Aloha Airlines Flight 243?

[Dashinka 24,438]

1 hour ago, LIBrty4all said:

THE biggest.  But real-time monitoring of aircraft systems grows constantly.  Heck, even 15 years ago computers on the ground were able to detect a problem before a part failed, and said part and maintenance personnel were on the ground waiting to change the (not quite yet) defective part when the plane landed.

Of course, there are those failures that happen in the air, but between a computer, a pilot in a room, and a pilot onboard, just about everything that can happen can be dealt with, save for the plane coming apart mid-air.

The problem is you cannot always trust computers.  They are only as good as the people that program them, and can be tricked.  Wasn’t there an Air France flight where the pilots let the computer fly them into the Atlantic?  Now of course there are issues when humans are flying as well, but honestly I would much rather trust a human to make the decisions then a computer.

[Boiler 45,402]

3 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

The problem is you cannot always trust computers.  They are only as good as the people that program them, and can be tricked.  Wasn’t there an Air France flight where the pilots let the computer fly them into the Atlantic?  Now of course there are issues when humans are flying as well, but honestly I would much rather trust a human to make the decisions then a computer.

Humans make far more mistakes the one I remember was when Canada went metric and they screwed up the fuel conversion

 

 

[Dashinka 24,438]

4 minutes ago, Boiler said:

Humans make far more mistakes the one I remember was when Canada went metric and they screwed up the fuel conversion

 

 

Yep, the Gimli Glider.  The question though, would a computer have been able to bring that flight to a positive outcome?

[Mike E 11,739]

I’m curious why FedEX, DHL, and UPS aren’t leading the charge here.  
 

Logically, before we would entertain passenger aircraft without pilots, we would first implement  it on freight carriers.  
 

And getting back to the original topic, do freight carriers use one pilot?

 

The article mentions ways to ease into single pilot cockpits.  It didn’t mention one other way: on flights were a pilot is being ferried, there could be a single pilot in the cockpit.  

[Lemonslice 4,805]

21 minutes ago, Mike E said:

I’m curious why FedEX, DHL, and UPS aren’t leading the charge here.  
 

Logically, before we would entertain passenger aircraft without pilots, we would first implement  it on freight carriers.  
 

And getting back to the original topic, do freight carriers use one pilot?

 

The article mentions ways to ease into single pilot cockpits.  It didn’t mention one other way: on flights were a pilot is being ferried, there could be a single pilot in the cockpit.  

Many rules are already different for cargo vs passenger flights.  Look up FAA 121 and FAA 135.  

[Mike E 11,739]

5 minutes ago, Lemonslice said:

Many rules are already different for cargo vs passenger flights.  Look up FAA 121 and FAA 135.  

I just did and neither were pertinent to my question. I will leave this thread now to the pilots amongst you.  I’m out. 

[Lemonslice 4,805]

Just now, Mike E said:

I just did and neither were pertinent to my question. I will leave this thread now to the pilots amongst you.  I’m out. 

Stay in, don't jump mid-flight

I'm certain that 1-pilot cargo flights will be authorized before passenger flights.  

[LIBrty4all 3,749]

32 minutes ago, Mike E said:

I’m curious why FedEX, DHL, and UPS aren’t leading the charge here.  
 

Logically, before we would entertain passenger aircraft without pilots, we would first implement  it on freight carriers.  
 

And getting back to the original topic, do freight carriers use one pilot?

 

The article mentions ways to ease into single pilot cockpits.  It didn’t mention one other way: on flights were a pilot is being ferried, there could be a single pilot in the cockpit.  

I'd say the military will be first, then cargo (some already only use 1 pilot on smaller craft), then airlines.  How soon?  Hard to gauge.  I'd say probably in our lifetimes.

[LIBrty4all 3,749]

11 minutes ago, Lemonslice said:

Many rules are already different for cargo vs passenger flights.  Look up FAA 121 and FAA 135.  

121 is scheduled, part 135 is non-scheduled (there are more differences, obviously, but that is the biggest).  UPS, FDX, and DHL are all 121 operators.

[Lemonslice 4,805]

1 hour ago, LIBrty4all said:

121 is scheduled, part 135 is non-scheduled (there are more differences, obviously, but that is the biggest).  UPS, FDX, and DHL are all 121 operators.

Uh. Fever got me worse than I thought. Going back to bed.  

[TBoneTX 45,089]

9 minutes ago, Lemonslice said:

Fever

Recover soon, LS ma'am.