221(g) Denial after IR-1 Interview - no birth certificate / adoption papers

[BFH 10]

Hi all,

 

Hoping someone might be able to point us in the right direction with how to move forward here.

 

My wife had her IR-1 interview today and was denied - given the 221(g) form for lack of a birth certificate or adoption papers. She was abandoned as a child and never knew her real parents. She was found by her adoptive grandparents and taken to the police station as a small child to register them as her guardians.

 

She never had a birth certificate, and in those times there were no digital databases in place to register such an adoption - there were only the witnesses her grandmother brought along.

 

When we applied for her visa, we submitted a Letter of Explanation in place of a birth certificate detailing the extensive efforts we took to try to obtain a birth certificate or proof of adoption - we listed all the departments and officers we contacted, all of whom said getting such a document was impossible. To our surprise (and our lawyers), this letter was accepted in lieu of a birth certificate - we were “documentarily qualified”.

 

At the interview, the officer asked a few questions and when she requested the birth certificate, my wife handed her the Letter of Explanation we'd submitted. The officer said it was unacceptable and that we would have to “try harder” to get adoption papers, even though this letter was accepted when uploaded to the CEAC.

 

Every other civil document and affidavit of support document is good to go for us. We’ve been married for 5 years and have plenty of evidence to prove our relationship is valid. She’s visited the states with me multiple times, and my parents have come to China to visit us a few times as well.

We’re not really sure how to move forward here and wanted to know if anyone else had been through a similar situation or has any advice.

 

Thanks you all so much in advance🙏

[Boiler 45,482]

Was she ever legally adopted or was this informal?

[BFH 10]

7 minutes ago, Boiler said:

Was she ever legally adopted or was this informal?

As far as her grandmother remembers, it was a legal adoption - they took her to the police station with a couple witnesses. Her hometown is a small island, and at the time this could have just been an informal adoption, but finding that out has proven near impossible. We spent almost a year in the past (before writing / submitting the "Letter of Explanation") trying to track down adoption papers. She's on her family's hukou (family household registration book), has a passport, ID card, etc. 

Edited November 18, 2022 by BFH

[Boiler 45,482]

I do not know how it works in China but just turning up to a Police Station seems odd. If she was not legally adopted then nothing to show.

[TBoneTX 45,273]

Maybe pushbrk has ideas -- page him here or send him a private message to ask him to post here.

[BFH 10]

10 minutes ago, TBoneTX said:

Maybe pushbrk has ideas -- page him here or send him a private message to ask him to post here.

thank you!

[Family 3,988]

Most likely a result of China’s population control policies …

 

An abandoned newborn girl whose biological parents could not register the birth…..but “grandparents “ ( if they were biological grandparents, would logically know where/ who  the parents are ) did not get into trouble for raising child….and no formal adoption ever took place. 

If you were unable to obtain a delayed registration of birth and have proven government refusal to do so, your only choice is to challenge the consulate on humanitarian grounds. …Seek sympathy. 

Reach out to congressman / Senator,  write to IV Section Chief ..bring as much attention to your case as possible. 
 

She seems to have certainly been vetted before, as she had US visitor visa, so I don’t see reasons for national security concerns.

 

Delayed Registration and Identifying the “Missing Girls” in China

Published online by Cambridge University Press:  15 November 2016

 

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/china-quarterly/article/delayed-registration-and-identifying-the-missing-girls-in-china/0759987A48A37E3D2CFE157778747E33

[pushbrk 12,877]

6 hours ago, Family said:

Most likely a result of China’s population control policies …

 

An abandoned newborn girl whose biological parents could not register the birth…..but “grandparents “ ( if they were biological grandparents, would logically know where/ who  the parents are ) did not get into trouble for raising child….and no formal adoption ever took place. 

If you were unable to obtain a delayed registration of birth and have proven government refusal to do so, your only choice is to challenge the consulate on humanitarian grounds. …Seek sympathy. 

Reach out to congressman / Senator,  write to IV Section Chief ..bring as much attention to your case as possible. 
 

She seems to have certainly been vetted before, as she had US visitor visa, so I don’t see reasons for national security concerns.

 

Delayed Registration and Identifying the “Missing Girls” in China

Published online by Cambridge University Press:  15 November 2016

 

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/china-quarterly/article/delayed-registration-and-identifying-the-missing-girls-in-china/0759987A48A37E3D2CFE157778747E33

I concur with Family on this one.  I too am confused how "adoptive GRANDPARENTS" fit into the picture.  Never heard of a grandchild adopted by grandparents.  Sure, maybe the people who found her were old, but that does not result in "adoptive grandparents".  Old people who actually adopt, become "parents" not "grandparents".  Please clarify.

 

[pushbrk 12,877]

Upon further reflection, it sounds like what really happened here is that the "grandparents" really ARE the grandparents and their daughter abandoned her to the care of the grandparents, to avoid certain penalties.  If this is the case, please say so.  If you don't KNOW, find out.  This is no time to "save face".  It's time for truth.  Once the truth is known, your lawyer should be ready to determine the correct action and advise you competently on next steps.

 

[Boiler 45,482]

I have seen cases in I think PI where the sister turned out to be the mother and the parents were the grandparents.

[pushbrk 12,877]

2 hours ago, Boiler said:

I have seen cases in I think PI where the sister turned out to be the mother and the parents were the grandparents.

Yes, I've seen that too, but in the Philippines and some other Asian or Pacific Island countries, they end up with an actual birth certificate indicating the "sister" is the birth mother.

[RandyW 149]

She is registered in a hukou, no? If so, what does it say?

 

If she has a Chinese ID she is a fully registered Chinese citizen and should have no trouble obtaining a Notarial Certificate of Birth from the Notarial Office, or Gong Zheng Chu (公证处). 

[RandyW 149]

Neither the Dept. of State nor the Consulate can dictate what documents need to be issued by the Chinese authorities. The Consulate RECOGNIZES this, and expects a standard Chinese document. The notation on the notarial birth certificate is 出生公证书, or chu sheng gong zheng shu.

[RandyW 149]

On 11/18/2022 at 11:18 PM, BFH said:

She's on her family's hukou (family household registration book), has a passport, ID card, etc. 

Simply go to the  Notarial Office, or Gong Zheng Chu (公证处) and ask for a 出生公证书, or chu sheng gong zheng shu.

 

This is NOT a problem.

[BFH 10]

1 hour ago, RandyW said:

Simply go to the  Notarial Office, or Gong Zheng Chu (公证处) and ask for a 出生公证书, or chu sheng gong zheng shu.

 

This is NOT a problem.

Thanks! We've been to the Notarial Office in the past - they said there's no way for them to obtain that document. We contacted them again right after the interview and now it seems like they can help. We're crossing our fingers. Thanks again - we appreciate your help!