Tourists visas- the most arbitrary visa ever lol

[Kanja 201]

Hi folks,

 

what have been your friends and family experience with b1/b2 visas? 
 

My husbands senior staff member applied for a visa so he would be able to come to a training and a pitch meeting with my husband in New York and Boston. He was denied (we are not totally surprised), and consular office didn’t look at any of the documents.

 

I’ve read on many forums that folks have reapplied couple months later and got a different consular office who took the time to review documents and then were actually issued a visa after a refusal.

 

my husband is more disappointed than his staff lol and yes we know his staff has to apply and qualify on his own merits. Just wondering if it’s worth him reapplying, he will miss the pitch meeting but there is another session of the training early next year that he could make. 
 

Some background of the employee:

1) Senior staff member at my husbands large company 

2) Sizeable salary relative to the country

3) No children but engaged to be married early next year 

4) Owns his own plot of land but currently renting an apartment 

5)  young man 28 years old (I think this is his biggest barrier unfortunately in a West African country with poor development) 

interestingly enough I know a woman with a very similar background who was recently approved for a visa, which is why I call it the most subjective and arbitrary visa ever 😂

[Boiler 45,467]

It is not normal to look at documentation as the information needed is usually on the application

 

I have also seen people approved after a prior denial, not sure how common it is.

[Kanja 201]

36 minutes ago, Boiler said:

It is not normal to look at documentation as the information needed is usually on the application

 

I have also seen people approved after a prior denial, not sure how common it is.

That is fair enough, though ties like home ownership/property ownership, local investments, aren’t on the application? Or are they? 

[Boiler 45,467]

4 minutes ago, Kanja said:

That is fair enough, though ties like home ownership/property ownership, local investments, aren’t on the application? Or are they? 

No they are not, they do not go into that detail, this is just for a tourist visa.

[Kanja 201]

19 minutes ago, Boiler said:

No they are not, they do not go into that detail, this is just for a tourist visa.

Thanks.

 

I’ll suggest for him to look again to see if there is a high level training with the same content in another African country or maybe somewhere in Europe, we checked before and didn’t find any but maybe that will change.

 

I don’t see him getting a different result going for another tourist visa.

 

 

[jan22 3,052]

14 minutes ago, Kanja said:

That is fair enough, though ties like home ownership/property ownership, local investments, aren’t on the application? Or are they? 

They are not because they do not really demonstrate strong ties to the home country that would ensure return after a visit to the US.  Property can be sold once in the US or rented out.  Local investments can be cashed out and funds transferred to the US.  Information on family, job, societal ties are on the application form.  That information plus all of the verbal and non-verbal information at the interview is used to make the visa approval decisions.  Documents rarely factor into the decision -- unfortunately, they are all too easy to fake in many countries and cannot really prove what a person's true intention is even if they are valid.

 

You mention approval by a "similar" applicant who got approved when you say it is an arbitrary process.  However, you likely really don't know all of the factors in which the two applicants are different.  One important one stands outs -- male vs female.  Embassies track information such as overstay rates, change or adjustment of status petitions, unauthorized employment, etc.  In many countries, young males have a much greater overstay rate than females, so are more likely to be found ineligible for a visa if they cannot clearly show the circumstances that would require their departure from the US.  Embassies also track the refusal/issuance rates among the visa officers within the visa units and provide on-going training to ensure there is consistency among the visa officers on the criteria for visa issuance or denial, making it far less arbitrary than it can seem by looking at an individual case or two.

[Kanja 201]

13 minutes ago, jan22 said:

They are not because they do not really demonstrate strong ties to the home country that would ensure return after a visit to the US.  Property can be sold once in the US or rented out.  Local investments can be cashed out and funds transferred to the US.  Information on family, job, societal ties are on the application form.  That information plus all of the verbal and non-verbal information at the interview is used to make the visa approval decisions.  Documents rarely factor into the decision -- unfortunately, they are all too easy to fake in many countries and cannot really prove what a person's true intention is even if they are valid.

 

You mention approval by a "similar" applicant who got approved when you say it is an arbitrary process.  However, you likely really don't know all of the factors in which the two applicants are different.  One important one stands outs -- male vs female.  Embassies track information such as overstay rates, change or adjustment of status petitions, unauthorized employment, etc.  In many countries, young males have a much greater overstay rate than females, so are more likely to be found ineligible for a visa if they cannot clearly show the circumstances that would require their departure from the US.  Embassies also track the refusal/issuance rates among the visa officers within the visa units and provide on-going training to ensure there is consistency among the visa officers on the criteria for visa issuance or denial, making it far less arbitrary than it can seem by looking at an individual case or two.

Great points and totally agree except in this country (Sierra Leone) it is pretty challenging to sell and rent our properties due to economic situation in the country. 
 

You are absolutely right about the process, I was being silly saying it was an arbitrary process. 

[jan22 3,052]

Just now, Kanja said:

Great points and totally agree except in this country (Sierra Leone) it is pretty challenging to sell and rent our properties due to economic situation in the country. 
 

You are absolutely right about the process, I was being silly saying it was an arbitrary process. 

You weren't at all silly -- I'm sorry if I made you feel that way.  I was just trying to show some of the things that an officer needs to consider that may not be taken into account by or known to others.  Although there is an intent to make the process as transparent as possible, it is still a complex, opaque process to most people.

[Kanja 201]

20 minutes ago, jan22 said:

They are not because they do not really demonstrate strong ties to the home country that would ensure return after a visit to the US.  Property can be sold once in the US or rented out.  Local investments can be cashed out and funds transferred to the US.  Information on family, job, societal ties are on the application form.  That information plus all of the verbal and non-verbal information at the interview is used to make the visa approval decisions.  Documents rarely factor into the decision -- unfortunately, they are all too easy to fake in many countries and cannot really prove what a person's true intention is even if they are valid.

 

You mention approval by a "similar" applicant who got approved when you say it is an arbitrary process.  However, you likely really don't know all of the factors in which the two applicants are different.  One important one stands outs -- male vs female.  Embassies track information such as overstay rates, change or adjustment of status petitions, unauthorized employment, etc.  In many countries, young males have a much greater overstay rate than females, so are more likely to be found ineligible for a visa if they cannot clearly show the circumstances that would require their departure from the US.  Embassies also track the refusal/issuance rates among the visa officers within the visa units and provide on-going training to ensure there is consistency among the visa officers on the criteria for visa issuance or denial, making it far less arbitrary than it can seem by looking at an individual case or two.

Interestingly enough, the woman I mentioned is in process of overstaying and didn’t attend any of the “conferences” she said she was going to 😞

[Boiler 45,467]

1 minute ago, Kanja said:

Great points and totally agree except in this country (Sierra Leone) it is pretty challenging to sell and rent our properties due to economic situation in the country. 
 

You are absolutely right about the process, I was being silly saying it was an arbitrary process. 

That is a bit of a two edge sword, as if they were normally relevant then they would not be in this case.

[Kanja 201]

4 minutes ago, jan22 said:

You weren't at all silly -- I'm sorry if I made you feel that way.  I was just trying to show some of the things that an officer needs to consider that may not be taken into account by or known to others.  Although there is an intent to make the process as transparent as possible, it is still a complex, opaque process to most people.

Definitely it is, and makes sense- they can’t be open about their process or folks would definitely find ways to circumvent all their processes. 

[milimelo 4,477]

5 minutes ago, Kanja said:

Interestingly enough, the woman I mentioned is in process of overstaying and didn’t attend any of the “conferences” she said she was going to 😞

Why don't you email the consular in Sierra Leone with that information?

[Kanja 201]

4 minutes ago, Boiler said:

That is a bit of a two edge sword, as if they were normally relevant then they would not be in this case.

Lol! True! 

Just now, milimelo said:

Why don't you email the consular in Sierra Leone with that information?

I always wonder, what happens if I do? I always thought they would not do anything with the information due to so many overstays? 

 

However  her employer did inform me that they would be reaching out to them. 

[jan22 3,052]

Just now, Kanja said:

Interestingly enough, the woman I mentioned is in process of overstaying and didn’t attend any of the “conferences” she said she was going to 😞

Yes -- officers arent perfect and can mistake a person's intentions.  And, more unfortunately, she will now become part of the next statistics that make it even more difficult for others to get visas!

 

A senior consular officer once told me that a visa officer is "...going to make mistakes.  They will issue a vIsa that should have been denied or deny a visa that should have been issued.  But, if they learn from the mistake and move forward they will make better judgments in the future."

[milimelo 4,477]

2 minutes ago, Kanja said:

Lol! True! 

I always wonder, what happens if I do? I always thought they would not do anything with the information due to so many overstays? 

 

However  her employer did inform me that they would be reaching out to them. 

Well for starters they can revoke her visa even if she's in the US.