Russia-Ukraine war live: two people killed after Russian missiles cross into Poland

[Boiler 44,855]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/nov/15/russia-ukraine-war-live-news-updates-kherson-victory-marks-beginning-of-end-of-russian-war-zelenskiy-says

 

Does not look an obvious target so presumably not intended.

[Dashinka 24,109]

Hmm, what will Joe and NATO do?

[TBoneTX 44,671]

Bidementia will support the deep state's defense contractors (ho-hum; WW III).

[Dashinka 24,109]

Just now, TBoneTX said:

Bidementia will support the deep state's defense contractors (ho-hum; WW III).

Kind of how WW I evolved.

[TBoneTX 44,671]

Just now, Dashinka said:

Kind of how WW I evolved.

I've seen more than one editorial making this same parallel.

[slavaskii 886]

Looks like the first person to get to the scene took a picture confirming it was an S-300 rocket, used by Ukraine for air defense but also, allegedly, by Russia for high-impact strikes. Biden’s comments about the missile “not coming from Russia” suspiciously suggest NATO knows this was a Ukrainian intercept gone awry (the missile was indeed tracked).

 

Nonetheless, I remain skeptical. Apparently it’s possible to locate the *exact farm* struck by confusing the latitude/longitude of Kyiv and Lviv. I don’t know how to explain it well, but I saw a picture that demonstrated a simple coordinate mistake would’ve led to the impact. Moreover, Zelenskyy would have zero reason to lie. He’s been calling for more advanced AA for months, if it was a system malfunction caused by trying to intercept a wildly off course rocket, nobody would blame him.

 

Suffice to say NATO knows everything, though. The person who published the wreckage photo really put them in a tight spot.

 

 

[Boiler 44,855]

S 300 can be used in the ground to ground role but has a limited warhead. I think they are using them in this mode because they have lots of them. S300 is a system name, quite a few rocket variants.

 

With the amount of coverage I find it unlikely that there was not some record of where they came from. 

 

It has been standard practice to fire 2 of them in the AA role, but it seems Ukrainian stocks are running low, and Iet's say they were duds seems odd that both would go in the same direction and land close to each other.

 

I sort of assumed that in the AA role if they fail to find their target they would detonate, not just hit the ground?

 

The comment was made that they were Russian, I assume they mean Soviet design and possibly manufacture but that is hardly surprising.

[TBoneTX 44,671]

Analysis of the wreckage photo from one source:

https://pjmedia.com/vodkapundit/2022/11/15/breaking-russian-missiles-hits-nato-ally-poland-two-dead-n1645957

[slavaskii 886]

In any event, looks like the assessment's changed. Latest from the AP is that the missile was likely fired by Ukraine at an incoming Russian rocket. 

 

Major, major embarrassment for Zelenskyy if true. Duda was right to calm everyone down right away, though he was in the hot chair earlier today. His desire to "see the investigation through" was almost certainly from NATO flatly telling him the missile was a misfire, and he needed some way to calm down the people who were rushing to the scene and drumming up chaos.

 

I doubt Poland's support for Ukraine will falter in any way. Amazingly, Zelenskyy even may get what he wants out of this - better AA. But it's going to be very difficult for us to justify giving Ukraine more blank checks if Zelenskyy really did deny this in private. We know for a fact he was in touch with both Poland and the US, if he truly feigned ignorance to them over the phone it's going to be really, really bad. Poland's housing millions of Ukrainians at tremendous expense, the least they deserved was brutal honesty when two of their citizens died and the country was launched into pure panic. Moreover, Russia gained a huge card with Ukraine being the first to 'strike' NATO territory (though I suspect they've always hoped to 'bait' them into making some sort of mistake).

Edited November 16, 2022 by slavaskii

[Dashinka 24,109]

So if this was in fact a Ukrainian missile gone awry, will NATO still defend every inch of its territory?

[Boiler 44,855]

 

Best summation of the situation as currently know I have seen, the second missile is the one that still confuses me, was it its buddy, or the one it intercepted?

[Ban Hammer 13,110]

12 hours ago, slavaskii said:

Zelenskyy has been pushing for more air defense for months, before that he demanded NATO "close the skies." In his nightly address last night, he made repeated reference to the strikes and called them "Russian missile terror" in a call with Duda. On his Facebook right now, he publicly has posted "Russian missiles hit Poland." That statement is unequivocal and as the figurehead of Ukraine, is a very serious allegation.

 

I don't doubt that there was a lot of confusion when the incident first happened. But he played straight into the Kremlin's hand by immediately jumping to conclusions - exactly what Duda didn't want to do. I wouldn't call my comments that, especially seeing how this is a major embarrassment that didn't need to happen. You think Kremlin TV won't be all over how Ukraine doesn't know how to use its own weapons and can't be trusted?  

one post removed for tos violation, the above post quoted and returned to viewing as it quoted the removed post.
 

[Dashinka 24,109]

So I wonder, will Zelensky use this to get more money from the US.  How much has the US invested in this as compared to the EU?

5 hours ago, Ban Hammer said:

one post removed for tos violation, the above post quoted and returned to viewing as it quoted the removed post.
 

Someone lost their bible?

[LIBrty4all 3,749]

A missile gone awry during a war?  Wow.

[MarJhi 928]

Why are we assuming the missile went awry? Maybe the missile went exactly where it was intended to go in order to bring others (NATO) into the fight. Maybe the only thing that went awry was having photographs identifying the missile and it's origin.