Did police in Florida have legitimate grounds to arrest this man?

[TBoneTX 44,672]

Fourth Amendment abuse.

Did police in Florida have legitimate grounds to arrest this man?

 

Police in Columbia County Florida saw an older man walking down the street with something in his back pocket that they though could be a weapon.  They stopped him and the situation quickly turned into an argument.  [...]

 

https://hotair.com/john-s-2/2022/11/07/did-police-in-florida-have-legitimate-grounds-to-arrest-this-man-n508961

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,367]

9 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

Fourth Amendment abuse.

No none whatsoever.  They were way out of line. Lawsuit coming. 

[Mike E 11,732]

The entire thing reminded me of encounters characters in the movies Idiocracy have with law enforcement officers.  
 

Americans don’t need to have ID while on public streets inside the U.S. and yet these officers seem to think otherwise.  
 

It was obvious it was neither a firearm nor knife. weapon: a folded aluminum tube isn’t a weapon.  
 

The male officer is a sergeant and I don’t understand how he passed the examination. He also thinks he is some kind of ophthalmologist. 
 

The female officer was looking to escalate.  Here is a hint: if you admit to being a tyrant, if the reason is because you’ve been triggered by a citizen you aren’t cut out for the job. Or if the reason is because you are a tyrant, you out cut out for job.  

It’s unfortunate that people with IQs under 100 can so easily impose a permanent criminal record on innocent people with so little due process.  For this reason, I would have handled the encounter differently than the victim did in this case.
 

Unfortunately my obsequious response enables such people.   But as a naturalized citizen I am second class and have to be more careful than the victim in the video.  
 

Both officers should be demoted to boots and repeat their probation.  Or permanently moved to a desk.  

 
 

 

[TBoneTX 44,672]

Contact:  Ignore cop and keep walking.  No requirement to respond.

Detention:  Ask, "Are you detaining me, or am I free to go?"  State/restate desire to leave now.

Arrest:  Shut UP except to express to every LEO your wish to consult with an attorney.

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,367]

I follow this guy and love his reels

 

https://www.facebook.com/lawbymike/

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,367]

As soon as that got volunteered it was a walking can, a thank you and apology should have been issued and end of story. 

 

I don't necessarily agree with some of the 1st amendment auditors who go out of their way to instigate law enforcement.  Some not all go to far.

[LIBrty4all 3,749]

9 hours ago, Mike E said:

The entire thing reminded me of encounters characters in the movies Idiocracy have with law enforcement officers.  
 

Americans don’t need to have ID while on public streets inside the U.S. and yet these officers seem to think otherwise.  
 

It was obvious it was neither a firearm nor knife. weapon: a folded aluminum tube isn’t a weapon.  
 

The male officer is a sergeant and I don’t understand how he passed the examination. He also thinks he is some kind of ophthalmologist. 
 

The female officer was looking to escalate.  Here is a hint: if you admit to being a tyrant, if the reason is because you’ve been triggered by a citizen you aren’t cut out for the job. Or if the reason is because you are a tyrant, you out cut out for job.  

It’s unfortunate that people with IQs under 100 can so easily impose a permanent criminal record on innocent people with so little due process.  For this reason, I would have handled the encounter differently than the victim did in this case.
 

Unfortunately my obsequious response enables such people.   But as a naturalized citizen I am second class and have to be more careful than the victim in the video.  
 

Both officers should be demoted to boots and repeat their probation.  Or permanently moved to a desk.  

 
 

 

 

I once left my hotel room in NYC to get some lunch.  Upon returning, my key wouldn't open my room (it was a late checkout, but they didn't set the key accordingly).  I went to the front desk and asked for them to reset my key.  They asked for ID.  I had none.  The desk agent proceeded to tell me it was against NY law to walk around the streets without an ID. I laughed and asked him what statute that fell under.  Of course, he could not tell me, just swore it was true.  I gave my company info, my name, phone #, etc. and he still didn't want to re-key my card.  I finally told him that I would just stand at the front desk for the next two hours until I was late for my company-required work, and then HE could explain to my boss why I wasn't where I was supposed to be.

He finally "did me a big favor" and took me at my word (I told him he could accompany me to my room and I would gladly provide an ID but he declined) and reset my key card.  Before going to my room, I stopped by the business center, looked up NY law (which like ALL states does NOT require a USC to carry any ID), printed the actual law on the matter, and stopped by the front desk and handed the 2 page article to the clerk.  I explained that knowledge was power, and now that I had educated him on the ACTUAL rules, he could treat future guests with more knowledge.

[yuna628 9,646]

On 11/9/2022 at 12:10 AM, LIBrty4all said:

 

I once left my hotel room in NYC to get some lunch.  Upon returning, my key wouldn't open my room (it was a late checkout, but they didn't set the key accordingly).  I went to the front desk and asked for them to reset my key.  They asked for ID.  I had none.  The desk agent proceeded to tell me it was against NY law to walk around the streets without an ID. I laughed and asked him what statute that fell under.  Of course, he could not tell me, just swore it was true.  I gave my company info, my name, phone #, etc. and he still didn't want to re-key my card.  I finally told him that I would just stand at the front desk for the next two hours until I was late for my company-required work, and then HE could explain to my boss why I wasn't where I was supposed to be.

He finally "did me a big favor" and took me at my word (I told him he could accompany me to my room and I would gladly provide an ID but he declined) and reset my key card.  Before going to my room, I stopped by the business center, looked up NY law (which like ALL states does NOT require a USC to carry any ID), printed the actual law on the matter, and stopped by the front desk and handed the 2 page article to the clerk.  I explained that knowledge was power, and now that I had educated him on the ACTUAL rules, he could treat future guests with more knowledge.

Very odd. We carry ID at all times, because I've seen cops harass people about that. Why I mention this is because we got locked out of our hotel room last year. Key cards did not work. They sent someone down. Turns out the entire doorknob system was broken, and it required a dude to change the locks. Still, they never once asked us for ID! I understand why they'd ask for liability reasons, but they should have been able to go down to the room themselves to confirm your ID with you. We once had a hotel nearly refuse to give us the room that was already paid for, because we looked younger than 25 (they had a no room to under 25s policy). Laughed because we were in our 30s at the time, got into an argument with them when we had to demand to show them our IDs to prove it, they scrutinized them like they were fake, and then had us call a third party to come down to the hotel to verify we were who we were. By that point we were so angry, we demanded the money back.

[LIBrty4all 3,749]

49 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

Very odd. We carry ID at all times, because I've seen cops harass people about that. Why I mention this is because we got locked out of our hotel room last year. Key cards did not work. They sent someone down. Turns out the entire doorknob system was broken, and it required a dude to change the locks. Still, they never once asked us for ID! I understand why they'd ask for liability reasons, but they should have been able to go down to the room themselves to confirm your ID with you. We once had a hotel nearly refuse to give us the room that was already paid for, because we looked younger than 25 (they had a no room to under 25s policy). Laughed because we were in our 30s at the time, got into an argument with them when we had to demand to show them our IDs to prove it, they scrutinized them like they were fake, and then had us call a third party to come down to the hotel to verify we were who we were. By that point we were so angry, we demanded the money back.

There is zero need to carry an ID (while walking around the streets) as a USC, period.  Not ever.  Just like eating broccoli or buying a gun, it's a choice.  I typically don't walk around unsafe places with my wallet or any"bling" other than my cheap wedding band.  My phone allows me to find my way, pay my way, and communicate if I get into a bind.  (Now obviously said ID IS needed for travel, checking in to a hotel, etc.)

 

I understand their reasoning for a wanting a person to prove who they are (I have had a member of the staff accompany me to my room while they held the key, and grabbed my wallet and provided multiple IDs), but the clerk telling me it was "illegal" to walk the streets without an ID really took the cake.  Especially when I was able to tell him my name, my employer, my employee ID, and even the CC I used for incidentals.  And he never once offered to send someone to the room with me, I think he just caved because I knew what I was talking about and wouldn't back down on the whole "illegal" thing.

[TBoneTX 44,672]

1 minute ago, LIBrty4all said:

any "bling" other than my cheap wedding band

This reminds me of a past observation:  Any man who wears more than one watch and one ring looks like a lounge-singer named Vic.  

[yuna628 9,646]

How about this one?

 

https://jezebel.com/gop-new-jersey-official-called-cops-on-9-year-old-black-1849768031

 

Quote

llegedly called the police on a 9-year-old Black girl when he saw her catching spotted lanternflies—an invasive species killing trees in the area—while wearing a hoodie, the girl’s mother, Monique Joseph, said at a local board meeting last week.

 

According to Joseph, Gordon Lawshe—the former council member for Caldwell, New Jersey, who’s also her neighbor—told police, “There’s a little Black woman walking, spraying stuff on the sidewalks and trees. I don’t know what the hell she’s doing, it scares me though.”  {..}

Bobbi Wilson’s older sister, Hayden, also testified, specifying that her younger sister had researched safe methods to eliminate lanternflies that she was testing in her front yard when Lawshe called the police. An October issue of The Progress quite literally spotlights Bobbi’s work to combat the environmentally hazardous invasive species in the community. “She was not only doing something amazing for our environment, she was doing something that made her feel like a hero,” Hayden said. “Our neighbor across the street…decided it would be appropriate to call the police on my sister.”{..}

Thankfully, the incident didn’t end in tragedy. Joseph testified that police responded well to the situation, though she didn’t offer details, and said she chose to speak before the council to start a conversation about how the town can “ensure that go[ing] forward, little Black and brown children in this town can feel safe in this community.” The mayor, John Kelley, thanked Joseph for sharing her and her daughter’s experience and apologized for the incident.

So I'm glad that the police responded well, though I don't know why they responded at all. Hope the guy is charged with wasting police time or harassment? Reminds me of the guy that got arrested for watering his neighbor's flowers as they asked him to (also for not carrying an ID)....

Edited November 10, 2022 by yuna628

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,367]

1 hour ago, yuna628 said:

How about this one?

 

https://jezebel.com/gop-new-jersey-official-called-cops-on-9-year-old-black-1849768031

 

So I'm glad that the police responded well, though I don't know why they responded at all. Hope the guy is charged with wasting police time or harassment? Reminds me of the guy that got arrested for watering his neighbor's flowers as they asked him to (also for not carrying an ID)....

I think when the police are called they respond. I would hate to have some 911 operator with no eyes on the situation making a judgment call on responses 

[yuna628 9,646]

33 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

I think when the police are called they respond. I would hate to have some 911 operator with no eyes on the situation making a judgment call on responses 

Well you know how they always complain about the thousands of prank and joke calls per year. There was this one woman that called 100s a day. 

[LIBrty4all 3,749]

On 11/10/2022 at 2:27 PM, yuna628 said:

How about this one?

 

https://jezebel.com/gop-new-jersey-official-called-cops-on-9-year-old-black-1849768031

 

So I'm glad that the police responded well, though I don't know why they responded at all. Hope the guy is charged with wasting police time or harassment? Reminds me of the guy that got arrested for watering his neighbor's flowers as they asked him to (also for not carrying an ID)....

Pretty solid response, I'd say. 

Put yourself in THEIR shoes.... with 100's of calls per week, ranging from as tame as this one to the domestic disturbances where the caller AND the perp turn on the cops and start shooting.

It's all good in da hood, until one walks a mile in their moccasins, eh?