Concerns and Trust

[hollyw 0]

Wow. Well, I'm happy to say that that is not a ME/NA that I have experienced nor is it what happens in my own household or in my family's house in Algiera (while I do understand that it is a reality for many many people).

I realize this is something that a lot of us are probably struggling with, especially coming having SOs from high fraud countries - how do you know that what you have with your husband is the real thing? Will he leave after the two year green card? The ten year? Naturalization? Is he using you for your money?

What I try to remember when I start to think like that is that you can never be sure of any type of relationship, no matter who you marry or what background they're from. There are many men right here in the United States who treat their wives the exact same way as you've described "all" middle eastern men treating their wives. It's a gamble... you just have to go with your gut.

[~*Dorothy*~ 2]

Wow. Well, I'm happy to say that that is not a ME/NA that I have experienced nor is it what happens in my own household or in my family's house in Algiera (while I do understand that it is a reality for many many people).

I realize this is something that a lot of us are probably struggling with, especially coming having SOs from high fraud countries - how do you know that what you have with your husband is the real thing? Will he leave after the two year green card? The ten year? Naturalization? Is he using you for your money?

What I try to remember when I start to think like that is that you can never be sure of any type of relationship, no matter who you marry or what background they're from. There are many men right here in the United States who treat their wives the exact same way as you've described "all" middle eastern men treating their wives. It's a gamble... you just have to go with your gut.

I think that you are making very valid point - life is a gamble in itself...

[sara535 15]

here is something I posted a few days ago on a different thread in this forum but its what I would like to say here too:

Next time anyone anyone brings up the marrying for a green card issue just say, hmm, yeah, maybe he is... so what?

I mean, yes, that would suck but all of life is a gamble. its all about taking chances. I am sure there ARE some people on this board being married for a green card, statistically it has to be, and for those people I am so so sorry. But there are a lot of people that ARENT being used and hey, thats what each of us is hoping for. Love is always a gamble, a gamble on a broken heart, a gamble on being lied to or deceived or USED FOR A GREEN CARD but whats the alternative?

and what I always say to that kind of green card ####### (although fortunately after almost 3 years married its pretty much a non issue for me now) is to point out that people like Scott Peterson and OJ and whatever that guy is this summer with the 9 month pregnant girlfriend and all those other wife killers/abusers were NOT from overseas, or looking for a green card, and in fact I bet Laci Peterson's parents loved Scott when they first met him, but that didnt help them any in the long run, did it?

the point being that as has been pointed out, when we choose to love we roll the dice. whoever we are, whoever our loved one is, its always a risk.

[sereia 0]

my family is somewhat concerned about the possibility about me being used for a green card. (as most of you well know) i personally can't imagine it being in our situation but how can you ever know? i'm sure plenty of women who have been used also felt like they can't EVER imagine their man was fooling them! are these men such good actors that they can pretend they love someone just to get a green card?! how can they be so patient, profess love, have sex, become close with families, and even become step fathers to some women's children? how can they hurt so many people to get what they want? its just sickening to me. i can't imagine very many things lower you can do to someone else.

i hope that men who do this are caught, fined/jailed, and shipped right back to where they came from and are NEVER allowed to come back!

Edited July 19, 2007 by sereia

[amrssnowangel 0]

Well, I think alot do want to have better life and leave their MENA countries. But that doesn't mean they don't want LOVE. Some WANT out, but won't sacrafice and USE someone to get it, but just increase their odds by looking to USC's or other places they may be happier. No different than going to Church to find a Christian or to a Hobby club to find someone with similar interests. I agree, I've been married before to USC and personally they treated me FAR worse than my SO. I am a bit concerned how this man pulled it off for 5 years. I've been with mine for 4 and yes, at times wondered. But what if this IS the real thing? Wouldn't I miss far more and isn't the happy time we DO have worth it? I can only hope it doesn't happen to me. I believe that if I do the right thing thats all that counts. No matter how bad someone else is to me....as long as I did the right thing and can stand before God with confidence in my actions. Nothing else matters.

[sereia 0]

Well, I think alot do want to have better life and leave their MENA countries.

really i've been to many 3rd world countries...and i understand how AWFUL some have to live. but possibly ruining someone's life, their trust, their hope in love.... is NO excuse, imho.

[amrssnowangel 0]

Well, I think alot do want to have better life and leave their MENA countries.

really i've been to many 3rd world countries...and i understand how AWFUL some have to live. but possibly ruining someone's life, their trust, their hope in love.... is NO excuse, imho.

Ohh you are right, no question....Im not talking of those. Im talking of the ones that truely want to find someone to LOVE...but choose to find love outside their countries with NO intentions of all those awful things. Im just saying alot want a better life, to leave MENA and choose to look for REAL love outside that area. Sorry for the misunderstanding

[♥JP♥ 5]

Hello everyone, if you have not guessed yet, its me, JP. I check VJ once in a while to see how everyone is doing and today this thread was brought to my attention by a couple of members via yahoo messenger. I can see that many have come back or made new accounts to support Jackie, as I did.

This thread also intrigued me to make a post for 2 reasons. I respect the OP's opinions and her experiances and she had made SEVERAL valid points.

Now what I can say is its not only Jordanians that are bad and users as the OP said, I take great offense to this because I AM Jordanian, but anyone that is marrying someone where one party is going to gain something by that marriage is at risk. I am Jordanian and so is my husband and even *I* am at risk, NO ONE is immune to this. Its not just greencards, it could be money as well. Unfortunatly there is no pre-nup for a green card. However I have said this before on this board, and to many in private conversations. Although not everyone has bad intentions, MANY do. Even if he says he loves you, that doesn't really matter. He isn't going to admit to your face that he/she is using you. Many of these marriages do end in divorce, but the signs are there its just that love blinds people from being able to see them. I have seen many people tell me of their situations and they just don't make sense to me, that is when you need to beware. Try to look at your situation as a third party, if you had to give yourself advice what would you say. Its always so much easier for us to tell our friends advice that is easier said than done.

Now as far as Jordanian and Arab women being doormats as the OP described. This is partially true is you are looking at village people. People that come from small villages in the middle east do have this frame of mind, however people that come from larger cities who are educated don't treat their women this way nor do the women allow them too. I have lots of family in Jordan and not one of them has a relationship as the OP described.

Please don't be offended by my words, I only came to offer my advice to those that wish to read it. I often feel like arab culture is misunderstood in this forum because of a person's experiance.

JP

[doodlebug 3]

When my husband meets me at the airport he's not gonna know what hit him!

[mybackpages 0]

I think its rarely as simple as he used me for a green card. I think more often than not "he" saw the marriage as an opportunity for a future and took a chance. Love is not, nor should it be the sole basis for marriage. I mean you are building a life together, bringing two families together (if he is MENA then it IS two families not two people involved)..love will ony take you so far.

I know there are those that marry with the intention of it being short term, simply for the purpose fo the green card. But the majority of marriages that fall apart have other problems, other incompatabilities that were difficult to overcome. The cultural differences, the expectations of lifestyle, marriage roles etc do get in the way and can be even more difficult to overcome when there other other personality incompatibilities.

And these generalizations about Arab culture. Sure you can find examples of this in teh Arab world, that's why they are generalizations. BUT some of what is said is simply western interpretation of MENA- meaning, what you think you see is not what the reality is. I find the whole post rather offensive. Why do we insist on evaluating others based on our own experiences????? You can not paint MENA with one broad brush stroke, its much more complex.

[hollyw 0]

I think its rarely as simple as he used me for a green card. I think more often than not "he" saw the marriage as an opportunity for a future and took a chance. Love is not, nor should it be the sole basis for marriage. I mean you are building a life together, bringing two families together (if he is MENA then it IS two families not two people involved)..love will ony take you so far.

I know there are those that marry with the intention of it being short term, simply for the purpose fo the green card. But the majority of marriages that fall apart have other problems, other incompatabilities that were difficult to overcome. The cultural differences, the expectations of lifestyle, marriage roles etc do get in the way and can be even more difficult to overcome when there other other personality incompatibilities.

And these generalizations about Arab culture. Sure you can find examples of this in teh Arab world, that's why they are generalizations. BUT some of what is said is simply western interpretation of MENA- meaning, what you think you see is not what the reality is. I find the whole post rather offensive. Why do we insist on evaluating others based on our own experiences????? You can not paint MENA with one broad brush stroke, its much more complex.

Well said

[amrssnowangel 0]

I think its rarely as simple as he used me for a green card. I think more often than not "he" saw the marriage as an opportunity for a future and took a chance. Love is not, nor should it be the sole basis for marriage. I mean you are building a life together, bringing two families together (if he is MENA then it IS two families not two people involved)..love will ony take you so far.

Exactly. Marriage can't soley be based on love. Love comes about because we meet needs: emotional, physical, social and so on. Even in MENA, many things factor into the decision to marry. The family background, social and financial status, and many more concerns are factored in. THIS is the mindset of many Arabs seeking to marry out of their country. Call it marriage FOR greencard, or for "better future". Just because they want something better for their lives, doesn't mean they dont' love their spouse or that the marriage will fail. ANY marriage is seen as an "opportunity". You see an American man...tall, dark, handsome...and oh...did i mention rich? And the women fall to their knees. Opportunity for a good life. He can provide. Its ALL part of the considerations we make when deciding what WE need in a life partner. Once we marry, its up to us and our spouse to make it work. Now, with THAT said...do I think the horror stories happen?? Yes, of course. But my chances of him using me for green card, and leaving are JUST as great as my chances marrying an American man with our 60% divorce rate. Does it matter WHERE I take my chances??? If Im lucky, love will find me...God will protect me and I may just die old, gray and happy.

[mybackpages 0]

And I just have to add...think about what these fears that what if my husband is using me for a green card can do to the marriage? You may never speak these words, but these ides can manifest itself in other ways without us being aware.

If a woman fears the green card issue without sound reason to have doubt, that creates a lack of trust and what can be more damaging to a relationship. Bi-national bi-cultural relatinships have alot of misunderstandings by default.

I believe there are always clues that a marriage may not work from the start and often we are blinded to whose because we are in the middle of it all- hard to see clearly or hard to see through the eyes of a third party. If there are signals, then don;t go forward. If there are no real signs, then this "fear of being used for a green card" is saying soemthing more about your own insecurities .

Couples have to work at marriage. My husbands likes to say without problems, you can have no life. But sometimes we have to work on our own baggage as much as we have to work at compromising and making the marriage work.

[AInfante-Saraireh 0]

Hey JP! You're a married woman now! How does it feel? What's new, long time no see here on VJ.

[sara535 15]

And I just have to add...think about what these fears that what if my husband is using me for a green card can do to the marriage? You may never speak these words, but these ides can manifest itself in other ways without us being aware.

If a woman fears the green card issue without sound reason to have doubt, that creates a lack of trust and what can be more damaging to a relationship. Bi-national bi-cultural relatinships have alot of misunderstandings by default.

I believe there are always clues that a marriage may not work from the start and often we are blinded to whose because we are in the middle of it all- hard to see clearly or hard to see through the eyes of a third party. If there are signals, then don;t go forward. If there are no real signs, then this "fear of being used for a green card" is saying soemthing more about your own insecurities .

Couples have to work at marriage. My husbands likes to say without problems, you can have no life. But sometimes we have to work on our own baggage as much as we have to work at compromising and making the marriage work.

I couldnt agree more. On the one hand, no one wants to be blind to the signs, but on the other hand everyone should be careful about making or creating a problem where there isnt one. Each of us, women and men alike, should always be aware of what their 'baggage' maybe to contributing to the situation. certainly I know as well as anyone how difficult it can be to keep the little nagging doubt voices in your head in check but suspicion like this is just like jealousy, if you let it get a foothold it can really grow and become a whole issue in and of itself....