Blacks in U.S. imprisoned at 5 times the rate of whites

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Round and round we go

As for the OP article - as mentioned previously it says as much about a urban/rural divide (along with the problems that typically plague inner cities) than it does about political affiliation of the state who 'own' those prison populations. Trying to boil it down to "Liberals are hypocrites" is merely politicising an apolitical social problem.

'Some' people who dress 'hood'? lol Which areas are you talking about? You been to NW DC? Anyone who dressed liked that overseas would be beaten up.

They would? By who?

You....?

[Heracles 417]

They would? By who?

You....?

Do diesel clothes look anything like urban wear??

PS Being 6'3" and related to one of the world's best kick boxers helps a lot as well.

Edited August 6, 2007 by Boo-Yah!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

They would? By who?

You....?

Do diesel clothes look anything like urban wear??

PS Being 6'3" and related to one of the world's best kick boxers helps a lot as well.

I'm probably not the only one who is scratching my head at that comment. Looks like you're advocating doing violence to someone - based on their style of dress, but I'm sure I'm wrong...

[Heracles 417]

Round and round we go

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

Lets sum up what you are saying

Crime in the black American community is induced and correlated with poverty and historical incidents. You have mentioned the aborigines of Australia and Maori's as another example of similar circumstances yet refuse to look at any other race or culture who was once oppressed or enslaved that has now moved on.

Like many others with similar views you bring up something you personally view as an issue but fail to deliver any workable solution to the problem, you identified. So basically all we want to do is whine about it.

I'm probably not the only one who is scratching my head at that comment. Looks like you're advocating doing violence to someone - based on their style of dress, but I'm sure I'm wrong...

Why would what they wear bother me?? It affects their imagine not mine.

Edited August 6, 2007 by Boo-Yah!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

Lets sum up what you are saying

Crime in the black American community is induced and correlated with poverty and historical incidents. You have mentioned the aborigines of Australia and Maori's as another example of similar circumstances yet refuse to look at any other race or culture who was once oppressed or enslaved that has now moved on.

Actually you only mentioned one group, the Jews. A group that was historically subject to repression - but which had a rather different historical paradigm - 'crucially' they weren't subject to the policies of European colonialism in the way that Africa, Australia, NZ etc were. You seem to think that 200 years is enough for everyone to be on equal footing with each other, while denying the legacy of that history. 'Culture' is informed by history and socioeconomics - that's obvious.

What's also obvious is that if there are many formerly repressed groups, across several countries, experiencing more or less the same present day social problems - then I'm not sure you can really deny that there is a connection, or that this 'ancient history' isn't informing the present.

Why would what they wear bother me??

Clearly it does - seeing as you've brought it up numerous times - as well as suggesting that a person who wears certain clothes overseas should be beaten up. Then mentioning you're connection with some kickboxer or other - what exactly should be inferred from this?

Like many others with similar views you bring up something you personally view as an issue but fail to deliver any workable solution to the problem, you identified. So basically all we want to do is whine about it.

I can tell you this - you won't see me trapping off that certain people should be beaten up because of the way they dress

[Heracles 417]

Number_6 I am still waiting on a workable solution from you..

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Number_6 I am still waiting on a workable solution from you..

I'm waiting for you to acknowledge 18 pages of racist generalisations.

[Heracles 417]

I can tell you this - you won't see me trapping off that certain people should be beaten up because of the way they dress

Still waiting. Comments like this is what I like from like-minded people. You look for any technicalities and then attack it without ever addressing the main issue. Nice side stepping technique.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I can tell you this - you won't see me trapping off that certain people should be beaten up because of the way they dress

Still waiting. Comments like this is what I like from like-minded people. You look for any technicalities and then attack it without ever addressing the main issue. Nice side stepping technique.

What "main issue" are we talking about here - and what is the position is it that you stand by?

As I said - my beef here is with the constant stream of racist generalisations that you've been trotting out.

[Heracles 417]

Number_6 I am still waiting on a workable solution from you..

I'm waiting for you to acknowledge 18 pages of racist generalisations.

Great fantastic.

Now you tell me how America and Australia should go about changing the attitudes and conditions of the people you mentioned.

[Heracles 417]

I can tell you this - you won't see me trapping off that certain people should be beaten up because of the way they dress

Still waiting. Comments like this is what I like from like-minded people. You look for any technicalities and then attack it without ever addressing the main issue. Nice side stepping technique.

What "main issue" are we talking about here - and what is the position is it that you stand by?

As I said - my beef here is with the constant stream of racist generalisations that you've been trotting out.

I am wrong you are right. Yep we are to blame and personally responsible for their current situation.

Now I am still waiting on what we should do to fix the problem 'you' identified.

Edited August 6, 2007 by Boo-Yah!

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

If an african american child was raised today from birth, never having knowledge of slavery. Would he walk through life feelling equal to his surroundings? Versus being indocrinated with excuses why "he cant" blame is so easy to fall back on!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

If an african american child was raised today from birth, never having knowledge of slavery. Would he walk through life feelling equal to his surroundings? Versus being indocrinated with excuses why "he cant" blame is so easy to fall back on!

I've never used the word 'blame', and that's not what its really about.

The govt can only make conciliatory gestures recognising the injustices of its past (Australia won't even do that - despite that many of the victims of its Stolen Generation are still alive, and the current Prime Minister was starting out on his political career in the 1960s when it was still going on).

I am wrong you are right. Yep we are to blame and personally responsible for their current situation.

Now I am still waiting on what we should do to fix the problem 'you' identified.

Actually I'd like to hear more from you telling people how to live (or you'll beat them up).

[Mel_and_Daniel 1]

Daniel, you shouldn't be "worried". I think you will get a feel for American society once you move here. There are a lot of ignorant people all over the world and hopefully you won't have to experience too much of that. People here are generally nice and as far as I have experienced.

I do not think you will experience any racism, especially if people find out you are from overseas. You look like a decent clean cut guy and not some gangster kind of punk, so you will be fine. One of my friends from South Africa migrated here a few years ago and has not had any issues. Then again he does not wear his pants at his knees or wear clothes 10 sizes larger either like some here do..

My prayer is that you won't face discrimination, but the reality is that you will. You will experience it in both subtle and not-so-subtle ways. Some are quite open and "in-your-face" about it, and some do it in a passive-agressive style. Some profess they are not racist or discriminatory and have not a clue that the very thing they protest against is the very thing they are. This thread gives you an indication of the types of people you will encounter.

On the bright side, these closed-minded and uneducated people are in the minority. You will have far more pleasant than unpleasant encounters with some very truly nice Americans. You need not be concerned.... But you should be aware.

WRT the original post, racial minorities do receive more punitive sentences than their white counterparts for the same type of crime. There are various mitigating circumstances for this, but race is definitely a factor. For those who will come back at me and demand to see evidence and statistics to back this up.... do your research. The documentation is out there and available.

Thank you, for your words of encouragement. I think I have a very good idea of what to expect. From following the news, watching documentaries, and listening to accounts of friends, you get an idea of what things are going to be like. But like Mel says, you never really know until you have actually experienced it. Your comments have confirmed just about everything I was thinking. Thanks again...

I find it telling that people are focusing on the watermelon comment but not the seventeen pages of 'but they're just culturally lazy and ignorant' while denying that anything like poverty, history, or racism could have anything to do with 'culture.'

How do you argue with someone who's not listening? The correlation between poverty and crime is a proven fact as much as improving working conditions increases job performance. You can't say that the reasons are invalid bcos the end result is bad. That is quite a ridiculous fallacy. When you refuse to acknowledge that and continue arguing, then you have a recipe for arguing indefinitely.

Why didn't I comment on the 17 pages? Because I find it a waste of time!!! I do admire your patience Number 6.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

How do you argue with someone who's not listening? The correlation between poverty and crime is a proven fact as much as improving working conditions increases job performance. You can't say that the reasons are invalid bcos the end result is bad. That is quite a ridiculous fallacy. When you refuse to acknowledge that and continue arguing, then you have a recipe for arguing indefinitely.

That's about the size of it.