Blacks in U.S. imprisoned at 5 times the rate of whites

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Then explain why we see similar trends outside the US in regard to minority groups in other countries - you've still left that point pretty much unaddressed. What single factor links together the aboriginal australians, native americans, black americans, maori new zealanders and black south africans. Each of those groups has significant social problems arising out of past repression. I don't think that's something that you can pin on any particular culture - but its no coincidence that those groups remain overwhelmingly in poverty to this day. Social inequalities exist for many reasons - but I'd like to see you explain this on a broad level, as it seems simplistic to apply incidental cultural factors to what is a much larger problem.

Another thing is that the other groups you mentioned technically have nowhere else to go.

A whole other kettle of fish is the high standard of living in the countries which those people are now a 'part of'.

Nonetheless, absolutely no one is holding any black American hostage or as slaves here. If, as you suggest, they still have feelings of oppression, slavery or segregation by the white man, they are more than permitted and free to pack up and immigrate elsewhere; as many other people do on a daily basis rather than ###### and whine about everything. Hence the other post about people moving to Canada.

Again you totally failed to address the point made. Why is it that formerly repressed groups in many countries are struggling today with by and large the same social problems? Could it be that the effects of that repression are far longer-lasting and wide-ranging than you want to admit?

[Caladan 19]

Haven't read the whole thread but a couple thoughts on the whole thing:

The original Post stated the black population in the US is imprisoned 5 times the rate of whites; With the worst ratio being in the blue states. The states which ironically have the lowest number of black Americans living in them..

I read the whole post, but not the whole thread. Thanks. The correlation, I'd bet, has to do with the larger number of urban blacks and the general problems with city crime. The blue states tend to have a couple of really big cities, since it's more an urban/rural split than it is state-by-state.

[Heracles 417]

Nonetheless, absolutely no one is holding any black American hostage or as slaves here. If, as you suggest, they still have feelings of oppression, slavery or segregation by the white man, they are more than permitted and free to pack up and immigrate elsewhere; as many other people do on a daily basis rather than ###### and whine about everything. Hence the other post about people moving to Canada.

I have read this post and I must say that you yourself sound like a racist. IMO you have said some very negative things about African american people. I do agree with the fact that "SOME" still use the excuse of the "WHITE MAN", and haven't moved on. But there are still some caucasian people out there the that haven't quite moved on either.

Maybe one day you'll move on yourself.

I hope you're not referring to me calling someone black American as being racist. The sole reason I do that is because they are not 'African' and have not been in a few hundred years. Now someone like Charlize Theron is African American because she was born in Africa.

The negative things you are referring to due to my view of the current status quo in America where it is okay for a black America to say anything they please, be racist themselves and pound their chests on a daily basis while anyone who brings light to the negative aspects of their community is branded a racist. Likewise anyone who equally pounds their chest back, who is not black, is also automatically labeled a a KKK loving, former slave owning racist. Which is not right.

[Heracles 417]

Again you totally failed to address the point made. Why is it that formerly repressed groups in many countries are struggling today with by and large the same social problems? Could it be that the effects of that repression are far longer-lasting and wide-ranging than you want to admit?

I have not addressed it because I view the point in similar light to someone caught committing a crime saying to a police officer, "Well I should be let go because they are doing it as well". Which is no excuse.

Most nations are going above and beyond what is necessary to help these people, usually at the expense of other citizens. Absolutely no one in this generation of black Americans experienced slavery yet some conveniently act as if it happened, to them, yesterday and use it as blackmail to get their way.

Edited August 5, 2007 by Boo-Yah!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Again you totally failed to address the point made. Why is it that formerly repressed groups in many countries are struggling today with by and large the same social problems? Could it be that the effects of that repression are far longer-lasting and wide-ranging than you want to admit?

I have not addressed it because I view the point in similar light to someone caught committing a crime saying to a police officer, "Well I should be let go because they are doing it as well". Which is no excuse.

Most nations are going above and beyond what is necessary to help these people, usually at the expense of other citizens. Absolutely no one in this generation of black Americans experienced slavery yet some conveniently act as if it happened, to them, yesterday and use it as blackmail to get their way.

What I find extraordinary is how you continue to single out black Americans for that analysis but ignore similar social problems in respect to formerly repressed groups in other countries. I think you want it to be simpler than it is.

In light of the OP article about US blacks being imprisoned at 5-10 times the rate of whites, please explain to me why it is that Australian Aborigines are 11 times more likely to be imprisoned than whites and other non-indigenous peoples. Just answer this simple question - do you think it is any coincidence that several formerly repressed groups across several countries exhibit similar social problems?

That's as simple as I can make it.

Edited August 5, 2007 by Number 6

[Mirorgate 0]

What I find extraordinary is how you continue to single out black Americans for that analysis but ignore similar social problems in respect to formerly repressed groups in other countries. I think you want it to be simpler than it is.

Maybe because that is what the article was addressing? Just a hunch. And other countries I have visited and not witnessed the whole "bend over backwards" attitude that I see here regarding a former slave population.

In light of the OP article about US blacks being imprisoned at 5-10 times the rate of whites, please explain to me why it is that Australian Aborigines are 11 times more likely to be imprisoned than whites and other non-indigenous peoples.

well duh... australia isn't quite the bastion of forward thinking that some wished it was.

btw.. still being the pinko commie terrorist supporter i see

how's the writting coming along btw?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

What I find extraordinary is how you continue to single out black Americans for that analysis but ignore similar social problems in respect to formerly repressed groups in other countries. I think you want it to be simpler than it is.

Maybe because that is what the article was addressing? Just a hunch. And other countries I have visited and not witnessed the whole "bend over backwards" attitude that I see here regarding a former slave population.

The article was addressing it - but his continual refusal to acknowledge, let alone address the trends in other countries/societies is rather suspicious IMO.

None of that changes the fact that this is a universal problem, that (formerly repressed) groups seem to demonstrate similar social problems with regards to unemployment and crime. Boo-Yah! likes to trumpet Australia's 'high standard of living' but is prepared to ignore that there are parallels between Black Americans and the Australian Aborigines. Same basic problem - can't claim that society is equal when the past treatment of a certain group has essentially created an underclass - with all the socioeconomic consequences that follow that.

Writing is going ok - working on another draft of a story for a deadline in October.

Edited August 5, 2007 by Number 6

[Heracles 417]

What I find extraordinary is how you continue to single out black Americans for that analysis but ignore similar social problems in respect to formerly repressed groups in other countries. I think you want it to be simpler than it is.

In light of the OP article about US blacks being imprisoned at 5-10 times the rate of whites, please explain to me why it is that Australian Aborigines are 11 times more likely to be imprisoned than whites and other non-indigenous peoples. Just answer this simple question - do you think it is any coincidence that several formerly repressed groups across several countries exhibit similar social problems?

That's as simple as I can make it.

What about other cultures and groups who where repressed and enslaved in the passed? Why is it they're not violent and terrorizing people? And not conveniently using repression as an excuse. Australia was colonized in 1788. The development of the aborigines was nowhere near that of the English. Violence has always been a way of life within their community yet you continue to falsely link this to repression. Should I bring up the cannibalistic Maori you constantly bring up from New Zealand. It must have been repression as well that brought that on the day the dutch landed there. My ancestor greet people rather then eat them.

Few Anthropologists have even written about the violent rape of other tribes, however the fact that it was widespread can be seen in the casual manner that Aborigines talked about it. In 1795, Watkin Tench, an English military officer, asked an Aborigine named Bennelong how attained a scar on his hand:

"He laughed, and owned that it was received in carrying off a lady of another tribe by force. "I was dragging her away. She cried aloud, and stuck her teeth in me." "And what did you do then?" "I knocked her down, and beat her till she was insensible, and covered with blood. Then..."

Nonetheless, are you basically stating that if you where a violently attacked by a black American you would simply 'let it slide' because they where once 'repressed'?? Should we have two sets of rules one for black Americans and one for everybody else???

Edited August 5, 2007 by Boo-Yah!

[eric&gen 0]

Not enough watermelon to go around.

[Mirorgate 0]

What I find extraordinary is how you continue to single out black Americans for that analysis but ignore similar social problems in respect to formerly repressed groups in other countries. I think you want it to be simpler than it is.

Maybe because that is what the article was addressing? Just a hunch. And other countries I have visited and not witnessed the whole "bend over backwards" attitude that I see here regarding a former slave population.

The article was addressing it - but his continual refusal to acknowledge, let alone address the trends in other countries/societies is rather suspicious IMO.

None of that changes the fact that this is a universal problem, that (formerly repressed) groups seem to demonstrate similar social problems with regards to unemployment and crime. Boo-Yah! likes to trumpet Australia's 'high standard of living' but is prepared to ignore that there are parallels between Black Americans and the Australian Aborigines. Same basic problem - can't claim that society is equal when the past treatment of a certain group has essentially created an underclass - with all the socioeconomic consequences that follow that.

Writing is going ok - working on another draft of a story for a deadline in October.

I agree that there is correlation in poverty/lack of education... but the entitlement attitude isn't there. There has always been an "under-class" throughout human societies. Are we closer to eradicating such a thing? perhaps, but it will take more work on both sides to rectify the situations.

in october? something more along what you like hopefully?

[Heracles 417]

well duh... australia isn't quite the bastion of forward thinking that some wished it was.

The must be doing something right considering they have the highest living standard and life expectancy in comparison to every other English speaking nation.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

well duh... australia isn't quite the bastion of forward thinking that some wished it was.

The must be doing something right considering they have the highest living standard and life expectancy in comparison to every other English speaking nation.

Probably not if you are of Aboriginal descent

[Heracles 417]

well duh... australia isn't quite the bastion of forward thinking that some wished it was.

The must be doing something right considering they have the highest living standard and life expectancy in comparison to every other English speaking nation.

Probably not if you are of Aboriginal descent

A lot is being done to help them out. Including the recent half a million dollar stolen generation payout. Lets not even talk about the hundreds of miles of land that has been handed back to them. Many also collect thousands of dollars a month in paychecks from companies mining Aboriginal land. The government provides quite a bit of assistance for them to study. As per the following which does not have to be paid back..

Basic Study Allowances - Aboriginals

n Living Allowance:

Standard

Aged under 16 years tertiary $26.20 pf

Aged under 16 years in State Care and

Foster Care Allowance paid $190.50 pf

Aged 16–17 years in State Care and

Foster Care Allowance paid $190.50 pf

Aged 18–20 years in State Care and

Foster Care Allowance paid $229.10 pf

Aged under 16 years in State Care and no

Foster Care Allowance paid $348.10 pf

Aged 16–20 years in State Care and no

Foster Care Allowance paid $348.10 pf

Aged 16–17 years $190.50 pf

Aged 18–20 years $229.10 pf

Aged 21 years or over* $424.30 pf

Away from home

Aged under 16 years $190.50 pf

Aged 16–20 years $348.10 pf

Aged 21 years or over* $424.30 pf

Independent—single, no children

Aged under 16 years $348.10 pf

Aged 16–20 years $348.10 pf

Aged under 16 years at home $190.50 pf

Aged 16–17 years at home $190.50 pf

Aged 18–20 years at home $229.10 pf

Aged 21 years or over* $424.30 pf

Single, aged 60 years or over*

(includes Pharmaceutical Allowance) $464.70 pf

Independent—partnered, no children

Aged under 16 years $348.10 pf

Aged 16–20 years $348.10 pf

Aged 21 years or over* $382.80 pf

Independent—single with dependent child

Aged under 16 years $456.00 pf

Aged 16–20 years $456.00 pf

Aged 21 years or over* $458.90 pf

Independent—partnered with

dependent child

Aged under 16 years $382.20 pf

Aged 16–20 years $382.20 pf

Aged 21 years or over* $382.80 pf

* These amounts are indexed every March and September

n School Term Allowance $540.80 pa

n School Fees Allowance (at home):

Turning 16 before 1 July in

school year $78.00 pa

Aged under 16 years at 30 June in

school year $156.00 pa

n School Fees Allowance (boarding):

Maximum rate (subject to income test) $7536.00 pa

Income test-free $6396.00 pa

n Incidentals Allowance:

Less than 12 week course $66.90 pa

12 to 16 week course $117.10 pa

17 to 23 week (one semester) course $233.10 pa

24 week to one year course $473.50 pa

n Additional Incidentals Allowance

Essential course costs in excess of

less than 12 week course $115.00 pa

12 to 16 week course $227.80 pa

17 to 23 week (one semester) course $455.50 pa

24 week to one year course $912.40 pa

Maximum in a year $2080.00 pa

n Lawful Custody Allowance essential course costs

n Aged under 16 years Boarding

Supplement $2054.40 per semester

n Residential Costs Option $41.60 pf plus actual costs

n Masters and Doctorate allowances:

Masters and Doctorate student $19 616.00 pa

living allowance $752.40 pf

Relocation Allowance $1520.00 maximum

($530.00 adult; $260.00 child)

Thesis Allowance—one-off payment

– Masters actual costs, maximum payment $420.00

– PhD actual costs, maximum payment $840.00

Compulsory course fees or Student Contribution

Amounts (previously known as HECS) actual costs

n Fares Allowance (Students only) actual costs

n Away from base assistance actual costs

Maximum payment for Masters/PhD is

$2080.00 per year.

n Remote Area Allowance is payable.

n Pharmaceutical Allowance may be paid.

Edited August 5, 2007 by Boo-Yah!

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

A lot is being done to help them out. Including the recent half a million dollar stolen generation payout. Lets not even talk about the hundreds of miles of land that has been handed back to them. Many also collect thousands of dollars a month in paychecks from companies mining Aboriginal land. The government provides quite a bit of assistance for them to study. As per the following which does not have to be paid back..

So government assistance to previously disadvantaged groups is a good thing then, in your opinion.

Rife inequality exists - the recent report in the Northern Territories which visited 45 settlements found violence and child sexual abuse rife in every one. Alcohol is totally destroying families and communities. Many of them are segregated from the mainstream economy.

[Heracles 417]

A lot is being done to help them out. Including the recent half a million dollar stolen generation payout. Lets not even talk about the hundreds of miles of land that has been handed back to them. Many also collect thousands of dollars a month in paychecks from companies mining Aboriginal land. The government provides quite a bit of assistance for them to study. As per the following which does not have to be paid back..

So government assistance to previously disadvantaged groups is a good thing then, in your opinion.

Rife inequality exists - the recent report in the Northern Territories which visited 45 settlements found violence and child sexual abuse rife in every one. Alcohol is totally destroying families and communities. Many of them are segregated from the mainstream economy.

Nope. I support government assistance for all in poverty or the disadvantaged.

The Aborigines are a different story since they had not interacted with any other civilization for 13,000 years prior to the English / Dutch landing there.