Economists see aid to poor nations as ineffective

[Heracles 417]

What does it have to do with dictators? There's a simple moral/ethical argument as to whether the population of a country should continue to pay 1st world countries for debts incurred by totalitarian governments in buying arms that were used for their oppression.

If we want to send in the army to remove a dictator. Will you support it??

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

What does it have to do with dictators? There's a simple moral/ethical argument as to whether the population of a country should continue to pay 1st world countries for debts incurred by totalitarian governments in buying arms that were used for their oppression.

If we want to send in the army to remove a dictator. Will you support it??

What does that have to do with the price of fish?

[Heracles 417]

What does that have to do with the price of fish?

because as an 'engineer', as you put it, I look for solutions. We never wrote any essays in my degree; Just solved problems.

Nonetheless, you pretty much said that dictators are part of the problem. Therefore I am suggesting we be proactive and remove the dictators prior to them doing any damage to their people. The only method of doing so is through the use of the military. Which I asked if you supported the use of the military to do so..

Edited July 19, 2007 by Boo-Yah!

[Cry_Tuff 0]

I'm actually a firm believer that those that continuously recieve handouts and freebies will never do anything to help themselves. They get to the point in their lives where they "EXPECT" something, instead of working hard and earning it. We all reach the bottom at some point or another in our lives, we may not be able to change the event, we may not be able to change the outcome, BUT we CAN change our responses on how everything is handled. My mother's family were farmers, and we were raised that if you work hard, and you actually do the work for something, you appreciate it better. Do some need genuine help? Yes....I have no problem with that, but the government needs to take a look at some people that have been on assistances and receiving handouts year after year after year...and find out why...and possibly gear programs on aiding that person on being self sufficient.

Now, with other countries, does foreign aide help? I want to believe that some times it does, but then again...I also am a skeptic that those monetary donations given to organazations never actually make it to the country at hand. The same tho applies in other countries, the governments need to work together, and compromise on a solution that will be beneficial to everyone, like programs for the poor...or farming techniques taught, etc...I understand in some countries, like Africa--in certain areas--it is almost impossible due to the guerilla mobs/governments that run the country (Like Darfur) The people there DO in fact need help...my heart is broken for what some go thru.

but enough of the campainging...I want to now see proof that that's where the money is going.

[Heracles 417]

I'm actually a firm believer that those that continuously recieve handouts and freebies will never do anything to help themselves. They get to the point in their lives where they "EXPECT" something, instead of working hard and earning it. We all reach the bottom at some point or another in our lives, we may not be able to change the event, we may not be able to change the outcome, BUT we CAN change our responses on how everything is handled. My mother's family were farmers, and we were raised that if you work hard, and you actually do the work for something, you appreciate it better. Do some need genuine help? Yes....I have no problem with that, but the government needs to take a look at some people that have been on assistances and receiving handouts year after year after year...and find out why...and possibly gear programs on aiding that person on being self sufficient.

Now, with other countries, does foreign aide help? I want to believe that some times it does, but then again...I also am a skeptic that those monetary donations given to organazations never actually make it to the country at hand. The same tho applies in other countries, the governments need to work together, and compromise on a solution that will be beneficial to everyone, like programs for the poor...or farming techniques taught, etc...I understand in some countries, like Africa--in certain areas--it is almost impossible due to the guerilla mobs/governments that run the country (Like Darfur) The people there DO in fact need help...my heart is broken for what some go thru.

but enough of the campainging...I want to now see proof that that's where the money is going.

Totally agree. The same thing is happening here where certain people have become comfortable being on the little welfare they get and refuse to change.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

This thread has completely derailed.

[Scott & Lai 12]

This thread has completely derailed.

It has?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

What does that have to do with the price of fish?

because as an 'engineer', as you put it, I look for solutions. We never wrote any essays in my degree; Just solved problems.

Nonetheless, you pretty much said that dictators are part of the problem. Therefore I am suggesting we be proactive and remove the dictators prior to them doing any damage to their people. The only method of doing so is through the use of the military. Which I asked if you supported the use of the military to do so..

The presence of dictators, I think, is not the only reason countries incur massive debt or remain in poverty. Its simply not a black and white issue - and I'm not sure we should be acting as though there is a single magical solution to the world's problems. There isn't.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

This thread has completely derailed.

It wasn't entirely unpredictable. And here we are on page 2 with someone relativising 3rd world economics with the welfare state.

Its just shows how everything has to come down to the same, insular polarised view of the world.

As I said it makes debating an issue like this rather meaningless, because people just want to clap themselves on the back that a misunderstood ideology like free market capitalism can solve the worlds problems at a stroke.

Its hard to understand how anyone could believe that its really that simple.

[GaryC 7]

This thread has completely derailed.

It wasn't entirely unpredictable. And here we are on page 2 with someone relativising 3rd world economics with the welfare state.

Its just shows how everything has to come down to the same, insular polarised view of the world.

As I said it makes debating an issue like this rather meaningless, because people just want to clap themselves on the back that a misunderstood ideology like free market capitalism can solve the worlds problems at a stroke.

Its hard to understand how anyone could believe that its really that simple.

The point of all this it seems is this: There will always be rich countries and there will always be poor countries. There is really nothing you can do about it as a rich country to bring poor countries out of the poverty. You can give aid in times of disastar but as far as throwing money at a poor country to make it a self sustaining one goes it is just a pipe dream. The basis of poverty as a nation is the government (or lack of it) and unless we are willing to go to each of them and impose a government on them we can do very little. Economic aid is like a funeral. It does the recipient very little good, it only makes the giver feel better.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

There's more to (the very, very many) aid programs than just handing over a blank cheque.

[Heracles 417]

There's more to (the very, very many) aid programs than just handing over a blank cheque.

Like?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

This thread has completely derailed.

It wasn't entirely unpredictable. And here we are on page 2 with someone relativising 3rd world economics with the welfare state.

Its just shows how everything has to come down to the same, insular polarised view of the world.

As I said it makes debating an issue like this rather meaningless, because people just want to clap themselves on the back that a misunderstood ideology like free market capitalism can solve the worlds problems at a stroke.

Its hard to understand how anyone could believe that its really that simple.

The point of all this it seems is this: There will always be rich countries and there will always be poor countries. There is really nothing you can do about it as a rich country to bring poor countries out of the poverty. You can give aid in times of disastar but as far as throwing money at a poor country to make it a self sustaining one goes it is just a pipe dream. The basis of poverty as a nation is the government (or lack of it) and unless we are willing to go to each of them and impose a government on them we can do very little. Economic aid is like a funeral. It does the recipient very little good, it only makes the giver feel better.

Gary, do you really think that Foreign Aid is merely a feel good act or that it's rooted purely in altruistic intentions?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

This thread has completely derailed.

It wasn't entirely unpredictable. And here we are on page 2 with someone relativising 3rd world economics with the welfare state.

Its just shows how everything has to come down to the same, insular polarised view of the world.

As I said it makes debating an issue like this rather meaningless, because people just want to clap themselves on the back that a misunderstood ideology like free market capitalism can solve the worlds problems at a stroke.

Its hard to understand how anyone could believe that its really that simple.

The point of all this it seems is this: There will always be rich countries and there will always be poor countries. There is really nothing you can do about it as a rich country to bring poor countries out of the poverty. You can give aid in times of disastar but as far as throwing money at a poor country to make it a self sustaining one goes it is just a pipe dream. The basis of poverty as a nation is the government (or lack of it) and unless we are willing to go to each of them and impose a government on them we can do very little. Economic aid is like a funeral. It does the recipient very little good, it only makes the giver feel better.

Gary, do you really think that Foreign Aid is merely a feel good act or that it's rooted purely in altruistic intentions?

I think the argument has come full circle - first capitalism (implied through regime change) is the solution, now no solutions are viable. But providing economic aid is still somehow worse.

There's more to (the very, very many) aid programs than just handing over a blank cheque.

Like?

For one - the separation of humanitarian aid from that intended for 'developmental' purposes.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I think the argument has come full circle - first capitalism (implied through regime change) is the solution, now no solutions are viable. But providing economic aid is still somehow worse.

Exactly.