Study says depression not caused by chemical imbalance, raising questions about antidepressants

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

6 minutes ago, LIBrty4all said:

Sad that you felt I was putting you down.  Wasn't even thinking about you when I posted, not sure why you felt the need to make it about you.  PTSD sucks, and comes in many forms.  I've lost friends to suicide who faced the same things I did, in spite of MANY of us trying to support them and talk them away from the brink.  Having been ON the brink myself before, I know how and why someone can get there, but still do not understand the WHY when people decide to cross over.  

We are all victims in one way or another.  What we choose to do in those situations defines who we really are in the end.  For me, therapy and meds had negligible effects.  YMMV.  But I'm happy for you that you are happier now.  That is all that matters.

Dude, I wasn't making it about me, I was using myself as an example, or more properly, a counterpoint. I was also pointing out that your words could hurt people who need support of the kind we both got, and the kind that we've both given. You and I both know what it's like being on the precipice. Compassion for people in hard places can be hard, but it's often very rewarding. You know that. Be well, and keep well.

[MarJhi 965]

Working in a grocery store for the last 32+ years means I have worked with a lot of young people. Typically, we have 30 to 40 kids between the ages of 16 to 18 on the work schedule, mostly part timers working after school. 32 years ago, the number of kids working at the store who were on meds was almost zero. Today, the number of kids working at the store who are on meds is staggering. The phrases "I have PTSD" or "my PTSD is acting up" are tossed around constantly as if it is a badge of honor. Clearly, the kids today are far more "medicated" than they were 3 decades ago and certainly more than when I was their age 4 decades ago.

 

Do I believe some people have legitimate issues that require medications where other treatment options are ineffective? sure...

 

...But I really believe that there is something today that has led us to a world of reliance on drugging kids up at a young age without even attempting to deal with their issues in other ways first. 

[LIBrty4all 3,754]

56 minutes ago, MarJhi said:

Working in a grocery store for the last 32+ years means I have worked with a lot of young people. Typically, we have 30 to 40 kids between the ages of 16 to 18 on the work schedule, mostly part timers working after school. 32 years ago, the number of kids working at the store who were on meds was almost zero. Today, the number of kids working at the store who are on meds is staggering. The phrases "I have PTSD" or "my PTSD is acting up" are tossed around constantly as if it is a badge of honor. Clearly, the kids today are far more "medicated" than they were 3 decades ago and certainly more than when I was their age 4 decades ago.

 

Do I believe some people have legitimate issues that require medications where other treatment options are ineffective? sure...

 

...But I really believe that there is something today that has led us to a world of reliance on drugging kids up at a young age without even attempting to deal with their issues in other ways first. 

I agree 100%.  And as I hinted at above, the timing of mass use of drugs coincides with the uptick in mass shootings.

[Dashinka 24,717]

1 hour ago, LIBrty4all said:

I agree 100%.  And as I hinted at above, the timing of mass use of drugs coincides with the uptick in mass shootings.

Shhh!  It is all about guns according to our “betters”.

[beloved_dingo 1,981]

Okay in what world were we better off 150 years ago??? What?! Life spans were radically shorter, women had few rights and were "property", slavery was still legal, THE AGE OF CONSENT WAS 12 in most states. 

 

Sure, with progress some things get worse while LITERALLY EVERYTHING ELSE gets better. We have more mass shootings today, but the rate of violent crime overall has steadily decreased for decades. And mass shootings are a narrow problem perpetrated almost exclusively by young men. So you cannot reduce the issue down to "we prescribe too many SSRIs" otherwise we'd have 12 year old girls, 60 year old men, 40 year old housewives, and everyone in between committing mass shootings. But we don't. 

 

I'm not saying our current society is perfect - far from it - but if you are looking at how things were 150 years ago as a benchmark for when things were "great" and people were tough, I think you need to revisit the history books.

Edited July 25, 2022 by beloved_dingo

[Dashinka 24,717]

2 hours ago, beloved_dingo said:

Okay in what world were we better off 150 years ago??? What?! Life spans were radically shorter, women had few rights and were "property", slavery was still legal, THE AGE OF CONSENT WAS 12 in most states. 

 

Sure, with progress some things get worse while LITERALLY EVERYTHING ELSE gets better. We have more mass shootings today, but the rate of violent crime overall has steadily decreased for decades. And mass shootings are a narrow problem perpetrated almost exclusively by young men. So you cannot reduce the issue down to "we prescribe too many SSRIs" otherwise we'd have 12 year old girls, 60 year old men, 40 year old housewives, and everyone in between committing mass shootings. But we don't. 

 

I'm not saying our current society is perfect - far from it - but if you are looking at how things were 150 years ago as a benchmark for when things were "great" and people were tough, I think you need to revisit the history books.

Less CO2 according to many activists.

 

By young men where many of them have been on some form of psych drugs for years.  Btw, there is a difference between how the male brain is wired as compared to how the female brain is wired.  Testosterone does play a major role in aggression.

 

https://thoughtcatalog.com/jeremy-london/2019/09/37-mass-shooters-who-were-on-antidepressants/

 

https://drrichswier.com/2022/06/16/97-8-of-mass-shootings-are-linked-to-this/

Edited July 25, 2022 by Dashinka

[yuna628 9,697]

Have we ever thought that for the many serial killers and mass shooters are pretty much mentally insane in the first place? So it's no surprise that some (certainly not all) were on medication or had struggled with mental health issues since young?

[beloved_dingo 1,981]

32 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

Less CO2 according to many activists.

 

By young men where many of them have been on some form of psych drugs for years.  Btw, there is a difference between how the male brain is wired as compared to how the female brain is wired.  Testosterone does play a major role in aggression.

 

https://thoughtcatalog.com/jeremy-london/2019/09/37-mass-shooters-who-were-on-antidepressants/

 

https://drrichswier.com/2022/06/16/97-8-of-mass-shootings-are-linked-to-this/

I didn't say that there is absolutely no connection to psychotropic drugs, I said you cannot reduce the issue to ONLY that. 

 

Also an excerpt from one of those articles states "[h]ere are 39 mass shooters who were either on antidepressants at the time of their rampage, had abruptly quit taking their medication when they went on their spree, or had been prescribed antidepressants at some point in the past."

 

The risks of abruptly stopping these medications is well known and documented, and is not the same as taking medication as prescribed under a doctor's supervision. I've seen how bad that can get first hand when a family member went off his meds cold turkey. 

 

Many of the people mentioned in the articles:

a) stopped taking their meds 

b) had amounts in their system well over therapeutic levels or combinations of 3+ psychotropic drugs (one dude had 12x the normal dose of Ambien in his system)

c) were at or under 18 years of age (these drugs ARE more dangerous and unpredictable when given to teenagers or children, it is well known now but less was known in previous years)

d) are noted as taking "unspecified" antidepressants, so we need more information (sources to back up claim, where did the meds come from, what kind, what else was in their system)

 

It is also worth noting that Prozac is mentioned far more than any other drug (11 out of 37 in that first article). 

 

I would also like to know the rate that these drugs were legally prescribed vs. illegally obtained (there is a huge problem with people sharing or selling drugs like Xanax, klonopin, ambien, ritalin, adderall, Valium, etc) and whether there were any other illegal drugs in their system. 

[Dashinka 24,717]

4 minutes ago, beloved_dingo said:

I didn't say that there is absolutely no connection to psychotropic drugs, I said you cannot reduce the issue to ONLY that. 

 

Also an excerpt from one of those articles states "[h]ere are 39 mass shooters who were either on antidepressants at the time of their rampage, had abruptly quit taking their medication when they went on their spree, or had been prescribed antidepressants at some point in the past."

 

The risks of abruptly stopping these medications is well known and documented, and is not the same as taking medication as prescribed under a doctor's supervision. I've seen how bad that can get first hand when a family member went off his meds cold turkey. 

 

Many of the people mentioned in the articles:

a) stopped taking their meds 

b) had amounts in their system well over therapeutic levels or combinations of 3+ psychotropic drugs (one dude had 12x the normal dose of Ambien in his system)

c) were at or under 18 years of age (these drugs ARE more dangerous and unpredictable when given to teenagers or children, it is well known now but less was known in previous years)

d) are noted as taking "unspecified" antidepressants, so we need more information (sources to back up claim, where did the meds come from, what kind, what else was in their system)

 

It is also worth noting that Prozac is mentioned far more than any other drug (11 out of 37 in that first article). 

 

I would also like to know the rate that these drugs were legally prescribed vs. illegally obtained (there is a huge problem with people sharing or selling drugs like Xanax, klonopin, ambien, ritalin, adderall, Valium, etc) and whether there were any other illegal drugs in their system. 

I tend to agree with you, but it is very interesting that anytime one of these events occurs, no one discusses the potential of a psych drug connection.  Usually it is always about guns, or sometimes like in the case of Buffalo, race.  There does appear to be some level of causation considering 30-40 years ago, we were not having the issue with mass shootings, yet guns and even semi-automatics, were readily available.

[Ontarkie 14,383]

On 7/23/2022 at 11:12 AM, MarJhi said:

Working in a grocery store for the last 32+ years means I have worked with a lot of young people. Typically, we have 30 to 40 kids between the ages of 16 to 18 on the work schedule, mostly part timers working after school. 32 years ago, the number of kids working at the store who were on meds was almost zero. Today, the number of kids working at the store who are on meds is staggering. The phrases "I have PTSD" or "my PTSD is acting up" are tossed around constantly as if it is a badge of honor. Clearly, the kids today are far more "medicated" than they were 3 decades ago and certainly more than when I was their age 4 decades ago.

 

Do I believe some people have legitimate issues that require medications where other treatment options are ineffective? sure...

 

...But I really believe that there is something today that has led us to a world of reliance on drugging kids up at a young age without even attempting to deal with their issues in other ways first. 

It's the food. Look at what 4 generations ago ate. . None of this process garbage that they are shoving in kid's mouths not one single bit of it. Some ppl have figured out their ADHD child can't eat certain food dyes, some figure out something else. It helps a bit but they don't get rid of all the bad foods, so it just continues. 

When my 3rd one down would drink chocolate milk it was like he a different child. Well chocolate milk was only a treat to start with so out it went. 

[TBoneTX 45,871]

Notice how most of these killers are unmarried men?

 

https://www.amazon.com/Naked-Nomads-Unmarried-Men-America/dp/0812904958/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1B9DWAI5V02S9&keywords="naked+nomads"&qid=1658808915&s=books&sprefix=naked+nomads+%2Cstripbooks%2C97&sr=1-1

 

The book is old, but the premise remains valid today... and is vastly under-credited.

[Dashinka 24,717]

18 hours ago, yuna628 said:

Have we ever thought that for the many serial killers and mass shooters are pretty much mentally insane in the first place? So it's no surprise that some (certainly not all) were on medication or had struggled with mental health issues since young?

It was not some, but most, and the question is did this medication make things worse, did stopping the medication make things worse, was the mental health care as effective as it could have been.  It is at least worth investigating rather than to constantly blame an inanimate object and make political spectacles.  Maybe these drug makers should share in the lawsuits that crop up against gunmakers after one of these horrific events.

[yuna628 9,697]

2 hours ago, Dashinka said:

It was not some, but most, and the question is did this medication make things worse, did stopping the medication make things worse, was the mental health care as effective as it could have been.  It is at least worth investigating rather than to constantly blame an inanimate object and make political spectacles.  Maybe these drug makers should share in the lawsuits that crop up against gunmakers after one of these horrific events.

If a person is blaming a gun and you are blaming the pills, isn't that the same thing?

 

What I'm saying is the people that do these type of mass killings are typically insane from the getgo. Have you ever been around someone when they stop taking their medication, because oh boy do I have some fun childhood memories...

[Dashinka 24,717]

12 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

If a person is blaming a gun and you are blaming the pills, isn't that the same thing?

 

What I'm saying is the people that do these type of mass killings are typically insane from the getgo. Have you ever been around someone when they stop taking their medication, because oh boy do I have some fun childhood memories...

What I am saying is there appears to be a fairly clear correlation with the advent of psych drugs and the rise in these type of events.  Guns, and specifically semiautomatic guns have been around for way longer than than psych drugs, but for some reason they were rarely used to perpetrate these type of events.  I am not expressly blaming the advent of psych drugs that some studies are showing are not very effective, rather, this should be studied more than the relying on the simple knee jerk gun control proclamations.

 

[beloved_dingo 1,981]

There has been a lot of discussion here about what has changed in the last 50 odd years to cause an increase in mass shootings. There is not just one thing causing this issue. But I believe that entitlement is part of it. A lot of these guys come from crappy backgrounds but as men, they believe they deserve many things in life - they deserve to have money and sex and whatever else. Incel culture is prominent online and it is toxic. So many young men end up on online echo chambers (like on 4chan) where they find someone to blame for their crappy life. Some blame women, some blame a certain minority or religion, some blame immigrants, some blame it on certain politics. Either way, their self-loathing and depression gets channeled into anger and hatred towards whatever group they believe is taking away their "god given right" to a good life. They do not have a sense of personal responsibility so they don't think about bettering themselves. They don't consider that their own actions prevent them from having a good job, or finding a girlfriend, or whatever else. So they act out in the worst way possible. 

 

Add in the pressure from social media, where most people show only the best aspects of their lives, and the worldwide media attention mass shootings get, it just exacerbates the issue. No doubt that many mass shooting were "inspired" by previous ones.