What do I do now? (LPR denied citizenship)

[belinda63 2,991]

The only question at this point is how she obtained the 10 year green card. Based on the OP saying she filed for it online she most likely did not obtain it in the proper manner. This would also explain why her N400 was denied. If she is not currently a legal LPR or if she obtain the green card through fraud (filing jointly to remove conditions and she was divorced) then she cannot file to naturalize. 

[Cyberfx1024 7,978]

19 hours ago, sotnem said:

Hello VJ family,

 

I am writing this post on behalf of the person whom I am about to tell you their story. I am fully confident in your input that it might cause a beneficial change to this person. If any information is required at a later on date, I will post it to keep up to date with this thread. I have included all the tags so that someone else might benefit from this thread at a later on date/case. Best of luck to everyone.

My story shall contain alias names to protect the privacy of all parties. (Sarah & David)

 

Sarah came into the USA accompanied with her 2 children (one of which is a US citizen but at the time not of age to sponsor his mother).

 

Sarah came into the USA in 06/2010 with her two children as a tourist.

She later got married to David on 03/2011.

David applied for her and she got her 2 years LPR on 08/2011, which expired on 08/2013.

Sarah and David got divorced on 11/2013 resulting in a marriage period of 2yr 8months.

Sarah, before letting her LPR expire on 08/2013 proceeded to attempt to renew her LPR online for an additional 10 years and received it. 01/2014-01/2024

Sarah did not stay in her marriage for the minimum of 3 years due to undisclosed reasons, her marital relationship only lasted 2 years and 8 months as stated above.

Sarah then applied for her citizenship on 12/2017 after being a resident for over 5 years thinking that she was going to get her citizenship.

Sarah passed her naturalization test, but got denied her citizenship as mentioned that she cannot prove that she was married until 01/2014.

 

Is Sarah banned from ever getting her citizenship? How can she re-apply? What is the next steps that she needs to undergo to change her status from LPR to citizen?  

 

I just want Say hello Greensboro kabayan. 

[Family 3,621]

Just now, Rocio0010 said:

14 minutes ago, Family said:

Just to be clear, our Sarah has no derivatives …only the pending I-130 s for kids .
The theoretical Sarah w derivative LPR children would also be stuck in LPR purgatory .

My question is: aren't the kids considered "derivatives"? If her 10 year GC was granted in error, are they going to go after her kids' status?

Disclaimer : Our Sarah  of The OP has no derivatives .

Theoretical Sarah and her theoretical derivative kids that obtained LPR remain LPR because “ no one can go after her or kids past 5 years of LPR grant”..

[LarryHickman 181]

Just here for the comments....popcorn...more popcorn....So is OP talking in 3rd person, about her mom or kid? Suspense is killing me.

Edited July 22, 2022 by LarryHickman

[Villanelle 4,121]

Its hard to understand what exactly happened as it's being narrated by a 3rd party who doesn't seem familiar with the process hence poor wording choices. 

 

I am going to outline the situation in very simple language, not for the users here but rather for Sarah and the OPs benefit. They need to understand what exactly happened and how to be able to explain it- in order to try to get the proper legal assistance.

 

It seems Sarah got married on her tourist visa. She and her husband filed the proper paperwork and she got a 2yr card. It had an expiration date of 8/13. She filed a joint ROC within the 90 day period. She was divorced 11/13. She never updated USCIS about the divorce so USCIS approved her ROC in error. It was approved in 1/14. Now Sarah has applied for citizenship. A review of her file shows she was approved for a joint ROC on 1/14. In order to be approved as a joint ROC you need to be married. She was not. Hence her n400 denial saying 'show us you were married on this date'.

 

So rather then USCIS saying oh gee wow we approved the ROC in error- they refuse to acknowledge it was done in error and shift the burden back to you and say you need to show proof that lines up with their incorrect decision. Its absurd but standard practice. 

 

A simple follow up filing of ROC won't fix this.  What needs to happen is the ROC decision made in 1/14 needs to be undone, then a new ROC filing can be accepted and processed. It may be able to occur concurrently.

 

Typically its an uphill battle to get USCIS to undo these types of errors but with persistence it can be done. Usually involves an attorney sending repeated demands to various specific higher ups compelling them to please undo the incorrect approval so the immigrant in limbo, Sarah in this case, can file it correctly. 

 

 Sarah should attempt to gather up what she can for a divorce waiver ROC.  It may be hard as its been a long time but she should still be able to get bank statements and such with some effort. Perhaps Sarah is one of those people who never throws anything away? She would have lots of evidence in that case. 

 

Sarah should reach out to her local bar association for assistance in finding an attorney who can help her with this.  As I said this is not going to be a simple fill this out or send a single letter. Corrections like this are the lowest priority for USCIS so a persistent attorney is needed.

 

Many attorneys might be hesitant to help as well as its very likely they will take your money, write an excellent letter, basically do everything they should and no action from USCIS. Now you're an angry client and who wants that. Id also be wary of those too eager to collect your money and send the same copy paste letter as many times as you are willing to pay them to.  So getting a referral from the bar can be helpful. You are looking for an attorney who ideally has experience in writing these 'we compel you to undo this' so it can be done the right way. 

[SusieQQQ 11,585]

6 hours ago, Family said:

Thank you for correction. I wrote before seeing ur post. 
OP remains in LPR purgatory,  but absolutely in LPR status, no rececission/ removal action can be initiated by USCIS because it’s past the 5 yr mark and that’s been litigated and stands. 
 

 

I’ve never heard of this, can you provide the name of the case you’re referencing?

 

 

 

[Imperium 81]

9 hours ago, Villanelle said:

Its hard to understand what exactly happened as it's being narrated by a 3rd party who doesn't seem familiar with the process hence poor wording choices. 

 

I am going to outline the situation in very simple language, not for the users here but rather for Sarah and the OPs benefit. They need to understand what exactly happened and how to be able to explain it- in order to try to get the proper legal assistance.

 

It seems Sarah got married on her tourist visa. She and her husband filed the proper paperwork and she got a 2yr card. It had an expiration date of 8/13. She filed a joint ROC within the 90 day period. She was divorced 11/13. She never updated USCIS about the divorce so USCIS approved her ROC in error. It was approved in 1/14. Now Sarah has applied for citizenship. A review of her file shows she was approved for a joint ROC on 1/14. In order to be approved as a joint ROC you need to be married. She was not. Hence her n400 denial saying 'show us you were married on this date'.

 

So rather then USCIS saying oh gee wow we approved the ROC in error- they refuse to acknowledge it was done in error and shift the burden back to you and say you need to show proof that lines up with their incorrect decision. Its absurd but standard practice. 

 

A simple follow up filing of ROC won't fix this.  What needs to happen is the ROC decision made in 1/14 needs to be undone, then a new ROC filing can be accepted and processed. It may be able to occur concurrently.

 

Typically its an uphill battle to get USCIS to undo these types of errors but with persistence it can be done. Usually involves an attorney sending repeated demands to various specific higher ups compelling them to please undo the incorrect approval so the immigrant in limbo, Sarah in this case, can file it correctly. 

 

 Sarah should attempt to gather up what she can for a divorce waiver ROC.  It may be hard as its been a long time but she should still be able to get bank statements and such with some effort. Perhaps Sarah is one of those people who never throws anything away? She would have lots of evidence in that case. 

 

Sarah should reach out to her local bar association for assistance in finding an attorney who can help her with this.  As I said this is not going to be a simple fill this out or send a single letter. Corrections like this are the lowest priority for USCIS so a persistent attorney is needed.

 

Many attorneys might be hesitant to help as well as its very likely they will take your money, write an excellent letter, basically do everything they should and no action from USCIS. Now you're an angry client and who wants that. Id also be wary of those too eager to collect your money and send the same copy paste letter as many times as you are willing to pay them to.  So getting a referral from the bar can be helpful. You are looking for an attorney who ideally has experience in writing these 'we compel you to undo this' so it can be done the right way. 

With the current backlog, it will be a long time before someone at USCIS gets to take a look at her file and put genuin effort to solve it. Best course of action would be Sarah visiting the local office to clear up discrepencies. OP has not shared what was the basis of denial cited by the USCIS on N-652. 

In Nov of 2016, an audit of OIG founds that between July 2013 and May 2016, USCIS wrongfully issued more than 5000 Green Cards. The issue was rooted in the implementation of ELIS system and eventually resolved, the agency and its adjudicators refused to take responsibility of this mess and denied subsequent benefits. This led up to several cases going to AAO, BIA and Cir Courts. While that topic is beyond the scope of this post, Sarah may very well be among that pool.

https://www.oig.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/assets/2017/OIG-17-11-Nov16.pdf

As for Sarah holding a ten year I-551 Card, at the inception of ELIS and prior to that, I-90 has been used to bypass administartively closed removal proceedings or ROC. There was a lag in the system and it was exploited intentiionally or unintentionally, however, it remains wrong and unethical. AS for Sarah, I am of the openion that USCIS will also be looking into Sarah's case to determine first, if I-90 was used to intentionally bypass the system. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/21/us/green-card-errors-visa.html

 

OP may now proceed to give us a factual account of events! 

 

 

[Villanelle 4,121]

@Imperium I agree that the OP needs to post additional information. I suspect as a new user they may have reached their posting limit, so we should be patient in waiting their response. 

 

I think the OP did explain sufficiently why the n400 was denied. She needed to show proof she was married on 1/14 the date her ROC was approved. As I attempted to explain the USCIS system uses a computer based logic, where it assumes everything is correct.  So if the system shows a ROC approval on 1/14 as joint petition- all further paperwork needs to support/confirm such.

 

The paperwork doesn’t obviously because the approval was done in error. From USCIS POV instead of acknowledging the error lies in their approval,  they automatically and illogically point to the problem as your supporting paperwork not lining up, and that YOU should somehow be able to fix it by providing the paperwork that aligns with their error.  Does that make sense? 

 

I don’t see anything in the posts suggesting Sarah bypassed ROC.  I understand the bit about using the online system or i90 is confusing.  I suspect based on the wording used by the OP like undisclosed reasons for marriage ending and technically approved for ROC- that the marriage ended poorly.  That a joint ROC was submitted in 8/13. The divorce was 11/13 meaning a very quick divorce process occurred. Most likely something happened swiftly ending the relationship leaving Sarah completely unheaved. When all the dust settled she probably caught her breath and looked into what was going on with her immigration.

 

She probably found out her ROC was 'technically' approved 2 months after the divorce in jan 14 but 10yr card was sent to previous joint address so she used online system to file i90 and obtain a new card. I could be wrong but this is the most logical and likely scenario based the info provided. 

[Imperium 81]

59 minutes ago, Villanelle said:

@Imperium I agree that the OP needs to post additional information. I suspect as a new user they may have reached their posting limit, so we should be patient in waiting their response. 

 

I think the OP did explain sufficiently why the n400 was denied. She needed to show proof she was married on 1/14 the date her ROC was approved. As I attempted to explain the USCIS system uses a computer based logic, where it assumes everything is correct.  So if the system shows a ROC approval on 1/14 as joint petition- all further paperwork needs to support/confirm such.

 

The paperwork doesn’t obviously because the approval was done in error. From USCIS POV instead of acknowledging the error lies in their approval,  they automatically and illogically point to the problem as your supporting paperwork not lining up, and that YOU should somehow be able to fix it by providing the paperwork that aligns with their error.  Does that make sense? 

 

I don’t see anything in the posts suggesting Sarah bypassed ROC.  I understand the bit about using the online system or i90 is confusing.  I suspect based on the wording used by the OP like undisclosed reasons for marriage ending and technically approved for ROC- that the marriage ended poorly.  That a joint ROC was submitted in 8/13. The divorce was 11/13 meaning a very quick divorce process occurred. Most likely something happened swiftly ending the relationship leaving Sarah completely unheaved. When all the dust settled she probably caught her breath and looked into what was going on with her immigration.

 

She probably found out her ROC was 'technically' approved 2 months after the divorce in jan 14 but 10yr card was sent to previous joint address so she used online system to file i90 and obtain a new card. I could be wrong but this is the most logical and likely scenario based the info provided. 

I do not suggest Sarah intended to bypass the ROC by filing I-90. It may very well be an innocent mistake. However, USCIS presumes submissions intentional. I am afriad Sarah is looking at a lengthy and exhausnting process. 

CLAIMS (Computer Linked Application Information Management System- that stores benefit forms, indexces and generates NOA), unlike CLAIMS2, was less automated and required intensive human interface. It all points to a clerical error but to fix such an error, it requires an exhausting amount of effort.

 

I just hope she knows what is the right course of action and where to start. IMHO, knowing my own experience of dealing with DHS, starting with an infopass is the right step to visit FO.

[SusieQQQ 11,585]

IF she filed i90 and it was unintentional- I have to disagree with the posts about it being “confusing” or a “trap” when right at the beginning of the instructions it tells you uncategorically (“may not, for any reason”) not to file i90 for a CR at the time she did. Maybe she just didn’t bother to read the instructions, lord knows she wouldn’t be the first or last we’ve seen here.

 

 

[SusieQQQ 11,585]

5 hours ago, Villanelle said:

I don’t see anything in the posts suggesting Sarah bypassed ROC.  I understand the bit about using the online system or i90 is confusing.  I suspect based on the wording used by the OP like undisclosed reasons for marriage ending and technically approved for ROC- that the marriage ended poorly.  That a joint ROC was submitted in 8/13. The divorce was 11/13 meaning a very quick divorce process occurred. Most likely something happened swiftly ending the relationship leaving Sarah completely unheaved. When all the dust settled she probably caught her breath and looked into what was going on with her immigration.

Except that OP also said that ROC was denied. We really need Sarah to join and to give us the facts. 

[Imperium 81]

14 hours ago, SusieQQQ said:

Except that OP also said that ROC was denied. We really need Sarah to join and to give us the facts. 

Timing matters alot here. Two senarios;

1-  If an ROC was denied and Sarah then moved to submit I-90, that is going to trigger a NTA (an intentional bypass), and taking Sarah out of USCIS system and moving over to ICE's GEMS.

Procedurally, once a case is denied, SORN generates a denial  and that remains as a Last Record of Action on an A-file in CLAIMS. This prompts an adjudicator to first look and resolve this before they can move forward. This is where ELIS System failed to update and automate. 

2- If Sarah filled I-90 while an ROC was pending, that may require Sarah to present evidence as to why she felt the need to submit an I-90, because when an ROC is recieved, CLAIMS generates NOA that extends validity of an LPR until the ROC is processed.

I strongly believe that Sarah may have a better account of events that could be helpful.

Edited July 23, 2022 by Imperium

[SusieQQQ 11,585]

5 hours ago, Imperium said:

 

I strongly believe that Sarah may have a better account of events that could be helpful.

Yes, imo there’s little point spending more time trying to figure this out until we have a clear idea of what has actually taken place.

[Jessy1990 6]

The OP is Sarah 

[Mr Genuis 91]

On 7/20/2022 at 10:01 PM, sotnem said:

Hello VJ family,

 

I am writing this post on behalf of the person whom I am about to tell you their story. I am fully confident in your input that it might cause a beneficial change to this person. If any information is required at a later on date, I will post it to keep up to date with this thread. I have included all the tags so that someone else might benefit from this thread at a later on date/case. Best of luck to everyone.

My story shall contain alias names to protect the privacy of all parties. (Sarah & David)

 

Sarah came into the USA accompanied with her 2 children (one of which is a US citizen but at the time not of age to sponsor his mother).

 

Sarah came into the USA in 06/2010 with her two children as a tourist.

She later got married to David on 03/2011.

David applied for her and she got her 2 years LPR on 08/2011, which expired on 08/2013.

Sarah and David got divorced on 11/2013 resulting in a marriage period of 2yr 8months.

Sarah, before letting her LPR expire on 08/2013 proceeded to attempt to renew her LPR online for an additional 10 years and received it. 01/2014-01/2024

Sarah did not stay in her marriage for the minimum of 3 years due to undisclosed reasons, her marital relationship only lasted 2 years and 8 months as stated above.

Sarah then applied for her citizenship on 12/2017 after being a resident for over 5 years thinking that she was going to get her citizenship.

Sarah passed her naturalization test, but got denied her citizenship as mentioned that she cannot prove that she was married until 01/2014.

 

Is Sarah banned from ever getting her citizenship? How can she re-apply? What is the next steps that she needs to undergo to change her status from LPR to citizen?  

 

I have seen so many comments that all make a lot of sense.  So I will give my take on this. I know the op states that Sarah filed online for the 10 year green card. But i don't want to stand on that( since it may be a wrong wordings) and USCIS will not give you a 10 year green card if you filed for I-90 for replacement since the must  been a review and confirmed system check to make sure you had a greencard and it is the right one you are seeking to to be reproduced due to lost of the actual greencard. I think the main issue here was that, she filed a removal without a divorce waiver. Yes she got the 10 year greencard because they filed together with his spouse and immediately after they filed they divorced. Now she did not report the divorced while her 10 years greencard was In process. USCIS on it part did not know what was going on ( that they got divorced) . So they processed it and issued the 10 yr greencard. And because she filed for her 2 year greencard within USA, she did not have a removal of condition interview. And everything seem to be working and going smoothly until when Sarah filed for filed for N400 hoping that her divorce will not count or perhaps uscis will not bother about her marriage since she was filing under 5 year rule. But that doesn't seem to be true. When she filed n400, like always USCIS go back to your immigration  history before given you citizenship. Then boom, they saw something fishy , they discovered she never reported her divorce when the 10 year greencard was processing. So they rejected her Citizenship. 

 

My advise is to look for powerful immigration lawyer because if you ignore and decide not to move on with the citizenship thinking oh yeah let the sleeping dog lay and I am ok with green card like others suggested, then that is a big mistake because your green card expires In 2024 and before the renewal you are going through scrutiny again ( everytime you seek  immigration benefit). That may still hook you there. So better get a lawyer and fixed this now, I guess the best option the lawyer will give is to file again  with a waiver, which I doubt too because the time has passed. So let the immigration lawyer decide which rout to take. I don't think anyone here can give you a solution