May 24, 2022 -- Deadly shooting at Texas elementary school

[beloved_dingo 1,973]

1 minute ago, ROK2USA said:

Thanks for the answers. 

I appreciate your replies.. I agree some teachers will agree to be armed but not all classrooms will have an armed teacher... so if the shooter enters that one classroom with an unarmed teacher?

I think? we agree... schools probably need more social workers... more people willing to check in on at risk students.

But, really! That isn't a help when the shooter has no connection to the school and has already graduated. 

That's what makes it frustrating...there are so many factors that contribute to these situations. 

 

I still don't understand how/why any 18 year old should be able to buy 2 very expensive and dangerous AR-15s though. Even mentally stable 18 year-olds have not matured. The latest I read about the guns is that he bought them both for his 18th birthday (but the gun purchases were 3 days apart), along with a bunch of ammo. 

 

Any thoughts on raising the age to legally acquire such weapons? 

[Redro 4,609]

1 minute ago, beloved_dingo said:

That's what makes it frustrating...there are so many factors that contribute to these situations. 

 

I still don't understand how/why any 18 year old should be able to buy 2 very expensive and dangerous AR-15s though. Even mentally stable 18 year-olds have not matured. The latest I read about the guns is that he bought them both for his 18th birthday (but the gun purchases were 3 days apart), along with a bunch of ammo. 

 

Any thoughts on raising the age to legally acquire such weapons? 

I believe the shooter in Michigan did not own the guns. The parents bought the gun for him but it was under their name. This is why they are being charged. 

I think charging parents/ guardians might be another avenue people can investigate. Let's look at those who encouraged the behavior/made the weapon available to the individual. 

 

[B_J 2,752]

1 minute ago, beloved_dingo said:

That's what makes it frustrating...there are so many factors that contribute to these situations. 

 

I still don't understand how/why any 18 year old should be able to buy 2 very expensive and dangerous AR-15s though. Even mentally stable 18 year-olds have not matured. The latest I read about the guns is that he bought them both for his 18th birthday (but the gun purchases were 3 days apart), along with a bunch of ammo. 

 

Any thoughts on raising the age to legally acquire such weapons? 

Here's the problem.  We talk about restricting AR-15s but that's really not the issue.  For the money he spent on those rifles, he could have bought a few handguns and a lot of ammunition.  He could have walked in with a handgun and gym bag full of extra magazines and guns.  Once he got in the classroom, he still would have killed every person that he killed with the AR-15.  I won't be more dead if I'm killed with an AR-15 than with a 9mm Glock.  It's also hard to sneak an AR into a building but it would be easy to sneak in with that gym bag full of weapons.

 

We should focus on meaning full changes to address mental healthcare in schools and protecting kids when a shooter is on campus.  

 

With that being said, I am definitely OK with charging parents when their kid does something like this with a gun that they couldn't legally own.  There is a responsibility that comes with gun ownership and it needs to be taken seriously.

 

 

[MarJhi 928]

1 hour ago, ROK2USA said:

I am so shocked at the suggestions people think arming teachers is the right course of action. 

1.) Teachers are already overworked an underpaid. Now they need to keep up to train to deal with active shooters and be prepared to shoot someone who comes into the classroom?

2.) Is anyone here a teacher? Teachers are constantly moving around the classroom trying to focus on 30 different individuals... now at the back of their mind they need to think about how to react (with a weapon) towards an active shooter?

3.) Little kids are super touchy feely and will get everywhere and anywhere... Where should an elementary teacher store the gun? On their person or at the desk... 

The gun can't be super secured because they need immediate access to said gun if an active shooter arrives... Where should the gun be in an elementary school?

4.) If THE POLICE aren't comfortable entering a building because they're scared they'll be shot what does that mean for teachers? There is already a shortage... are schools now only going to hire teachers who state they are comfortable teaching knowing they could get shot/ are fine with shooting someone in front of their students? 

 

If someone can answer these questions I would be very happy... 

I'm all for hiring more armed guards or making sure only authorized people enter the school... but I don't understand the logistics of arming elementary school teachers. 

(only talking elementary as the school in question was an elementary school). 

I cannot pretend to be an expert and answer every question, because I am not a security expert, but I expect there are safety protocols that could be put in place by professionals/security consultants to prevent accidents. Protocols and safety measures to prevent accidents that you or I haven't even considered because it is not something we do for a living.  I don't think teachers (the one's who are willing to take on the responsibility, if any) would necessarily need to have the gun on their person. I think a first line of defense would involve an early warning system, an alarm or alert that goes off the second an unauthorized person sets foot on campus. Maybe it will become a necessity to have volunteers (parents/retired persons) on the outside perimeter with fencing in place of schools to keep an eye on someone trying to gain access. Obviously anything that could slow down the bad guy to give teachers time to do what they need to do is doing to have to be considered. That would ideally give teachers enough time to enact whatever safety/sheltering protocols the security experts have come up with. IF there is a teacher who is willing, knowledgeable about firearms, I don't think that would be a bad thing. We protect EVERYTHING of value in this country with guns, except our children. Every major public figure who wants to restrict the 2nd Amendment is protected by guns. If a psycho scumbag is looking for a soft target to murder people, he's not going to shoot up a police station, a courthouse or a bank, he is going to look for the place where he knows there will be zero resistance, which seems to be schools and churches. 

 

As for the police being unwilling because they are scared of being shot, I think we need to hold off on some judgement on that until more details come out. I can't help but suspect someone gave a stand down order until the border patrol tactical unit arrived, but I could be wrong. I believe at some point we will discover someone in a position of authority made that decision and not the officers themselves. 

[MarJhi 928]

17 minutes ago, B_J said:

Here's the problem.  We talk about restricting AR-15s but that's really not the issue.  For the money he spent on those rifles, he could have bought a few handguns and a lot of ammunition.  He could have walked in with a handgun and gym bag full of extra magazines and guns.  Once he got in the classroom, he still would have killed every person that he killed with the AR-15.  I won't be more dead if I'm killed with an AR-15 than with a 9mm Glock.  It's also hard to sneak an AR into a building but it would be easy to sneak in with that gym bag full of weapons.

 

We should focus on meaning full changes to address mental healthcare in schools and protecting kids when a shooter is on campus.  

 

With that being said, I am definitely OK with charging parents when their kid does something like this with a gun that they couldn't legally own.  There is a responsibility that comes with gun ownership and it needs to be taken seriously.

 

 

The Virginia Tech shooter and Fort Hood shooter both used handguns.

[Dashinka 24,088]

17 minutes ago, ROK2USA said:

I believe the shooter in Michigan did not own the guns. The parents bought the gun for him but it was under their name. This is why they are being charged. 

I think charging parents/ guardians might be another avenue people can investigate. Let's look at those who encouraged the behavior/made the weapon available to the individual. 

 

In the Michigan case, the kid was 15, so yes, the parents bought the handgun, and they are currently in county jail awaiting trial.  It will be interesting how that trial turns out.  It sounds like this may not have been the case in TX.

 

24 minutes ago, beloved_dingo said:

That's what makes it frustrating...there are so many factors that contribute to these situations. 

 

I still don't understand how/why any 18 year old should be able to buy 2 very expensive and dangerous AR-15s though. Even mentally stable 18 year-olds have not matured. The latest I read about the guns is that he bought them both for his 18th birthday (but the gun purchases were 3 days apart), along with a bunch of ammo. 

 

Any thoughts on raising the age to legally acquire such weapons? 

I completely agree.  as @LIBrty4all mentioned, this was certainly a potential red flag.  Where does an unemployed high school drop out get the money to buy the equipment he had?  There is some discussion about raising the age for a long-gun, who knows, what about people that join the military at 18, will they be exempt?  Also, what age would be appropriate?  I expect most will end up at 21, but is that still too young?  I also heard this individual was arrested as a teen for threatening to shoot up his high school (not confirmed as far as I have heard so far).  Should we leave childhood criminal proceedings on the record?

[B_J 2,752]

5 minutes ago, MarJhi said:

As for the police being unwilling because they are scared of being shot, I think we need to hold off on some judgement on that until more details come out. I can't help but suspect someone gave a stand down order until the border patrol tactical unit arrived, but I could be wrong. I believe at some point we will discover someone in a position of authority made that decision and not the officers themselves. 

I hate that people are really working to try to blame the police.  Here is an article I found:

Police-training experts say if Uvalde police didn't storm the school, they weren't following standard protocol

Clearly they want to blame the cops but in the article it says, "when a shooter barricades himself inside a building, law-enforcement officers are taught to evacuate and call the SWAT team "

 

It seems that they did as they've been trained.  The shooter was barricaded in the building and they were waiting for SWAT.  So, how can they say they weren't following protocol?  

 

https://news.yahoo.com/police-training-experts-uvalde-cops-175200064.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

[Ban Hammer 13,098]

1 hour ago, beloved_dingo said:

Speaking of moderating, young people are also pretty good at getting around the AI moderation because they just censor certain words, add asterisks, misspell, etc. Meanwhile, perfectly harmless posts get removed or moderated because something like "I would kill for a burger right now" gets flagged just for the use of the word "kill". The only social media I use now is Instagram and the one and only time I had a comment flagged was because I used the word "traitor". I don't get it. 

i'm frequently flagged on fb - one of the most humorous ones was when i posted a pic of adolf hitler with the words "if you report your neighbor for not masking, you did the reich thing"
fb has no sense of humor.

[MarJhi 928]

4 minutes ago, Ban Hammer said:

i'm frequently flagged on fb - one of the most humorous ones was when i posted a pic of adolf hitler with the words "if you report your neighbor for not masking, you did the reich thing"
fb has no sense of humor.

A friend of mine was suspended on facebook recently.

 

She posted a photo of herself and 3 of her friends from church in which she in which she didn't have the camera positioned properly and the tops of their heads were not visible. Her crime? She posted the picture with the caption "Sorry I chopped our heads off".

[Dashinka 24,088]

4 minutes ago, MarJhi said:

A friend of mine was suspended on facebook recently.

 

She posted a photo of herself and 3 of her friends from church in which she in which she didn't have the camera positioned properly and the tops of their heads were not visible. Her crime? She posted the picture with the caption "Sorry I chopped our heads off".

For me it is easy, I dropped FB years ago.

[Mike E 11,732]

2 hours ago, ROK2USA said:

I am so shocked at the suggestions people think arming teachers is the right course of action. 

1.) Teachers are already overworked an underpaid. Now they need to keep up to train to deal with active shooters and be prepared to shoot someone who comes into the classroom?

In America we have a Federal Flight Deck Officer program which permits commercial airline pilots who have passed a background check to bring a loaded side arm with them into the cockpit. I’m sure a commercial  airline pilot flying 50 seater jets equally feels under paid and overworked.  However FFDOs aren’t required to join the program. They join because they are afraid for their lives.  
 

2 hours ago, ROK2USA said:

2.) Is anyone here a teacher? Teachers are constantly moving around the classroom trying to focus on 30 different individuals... now at the back of their mind they need to think about how to react (with a weapon) towards an active shooter?

Every teacher in America (and for that matter other countries … a teacher in Burma does so even more often though the threat comes from a soldier paid for by the government) has think how to react towards an active shooter.  Some teachers would would prefer to be armed.  
 

2 hours ago, ROK2USA said:

3.) Little kids are super touchy feely and will get everywhere and anywhere... Where should an elementary teacher store the gun? On their person

On their person works best except perhaps for a physical education teacher. 

2 hours ago, ROK2USA said:

 

or at the desk... 

The gun can't be super secured because they need immediate access to said gun if an active shooter arrives... Where should the gun be in an elementary school?

4.) If THE POLICE aren't comfortable entering a building because they're scared they'll be shot what does that mean for teachers?

It means they should be somewhat less scared.  
 

I’ve lived in neighborhoods where 90 percent of my neighbors had weapons.  I slept soundly at night.  Soon I hope I will be moving to a new state with proper concealed carry laws and will feel more safe than  here in blue county California.  
 

 

2 hours ago, ROK2USA said:

 

There is already a shortage... are schools now only going to hire teachers who state they are comfortable teaching knowing they could get shot/ are fine with shooting someone in front of their students?

That’s the status quo 

2 hours ago, ROK2USA said:

 

If someone can answer these questions I would be very happy... 

I'm all for hiring more armed guards or making sure only authorized people enter the school... but I don't understand the logistics of arming elementary school teachers. 

(only talking elementary as the school in question was an elementary school). 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Flight_Deck_Officer Is a good primer.  

[MarJhi 928]

Just now, Dashinka said:

For me it is easy, I dropped FB years ago.

I rarely use it. The only reason I still have it is as a backup contact platform for my fiance in the Philippines. We use WhatsApp daily but on occasion it has had an outage, so Facebook is the backup plan. Once she is here my Facebook is likely to go away.

[LIBrty4all 3,749]

3 minutes ago, MarJhi said:

I rarely use it. The only reason I still have it is as a backup contact platform for my fiance in the Philippines. We use WhatsApp daily but on occasion it has had an outage, so Facebook is the backup plan. Once she is here my Facebook is likely to go away.

Highly recommend Signal over both WhatsApp and Messenger (both owned by FB, and neither care about your privacy).  Signal isn't as wide-spread as WhatsApp, but a better app overall, and is more secure.

[MarJhi 928]

7 minutes ago, Mike E said:

I’ve lived in neighborhoods where 90 percent of my neighbors had weapons.  I slept soundly at night.  Soon I hope I will be moving to a new state with proper concealed carry laws and will feel more safe than  here in blue county California.  

Come to Arizona then!

 

Open carry and concealed carry are perfectly legal here assuming you are not a convicted felon and meet the age requirements. I occasionally see someone open carry, but I suspect that most of the guns around me are concealed. 

[LIBrty4all 3,749]

1 minute ago, MarJhi said:

Come to Arizona then!

 

Open carry and concealed carry are perfectly legal here assuming you are not a convicted felon and meet the age requirements. I occasionally see someone open carry, but I suspect that most of the guns around me are concealed. 

As they should be.