May 24, 2022 -- Deadly shooting at Texas elementary school

[yuna628 9,671]

12 minutes ago, Boiler said:

Or You are killing me?

 

Wonder how they are going to deal with the speech is violence crowd, using the wrong pronoun?

Content moderation is going to continue to get more and more silly in an effort to cater to everyone, instead of having clearly defined rules. When outside websites close off commenting but encourage people to use facebook or twitter, they are effectively outsourcing to another company to deal with 'the problem' and taking no responsibility for their own content. Everyone has certain perceptions about 'free speech' and eventually there's going to be a comment somewhere that are going to get removed and someone isn't going to like it. That's the way it is. There was this crazy chick on twitter that would harass a celeb by tweeting graphic photos and threatening to kill them every day. I think that was a pretty clear line of content that wasn't acceptable... well the twitter bots didn't think so for the longest time. I follow a travel vlogger, and they had their video demonetized. They had no idea why and no one else did either. We think it might have been an algorithm detecting a shirtless male in a pool? Or maybe someone reported for kicks, anyway long fuss later, and getting someone that knows someone to actually physically review the thing, got them reinstated but no explanation at all.

Edited May 27, 2022 by yuna628

[Crazy Cat 41,806]

10 minutes ago, Boiler said:

If you are relying on that my thought is in most cases you have already lost it.

I haven't seen anyone who says that arming teachers is the only method to secure schools....but it would provide a last line of defense......which might have saved lives in this latest situation.

 

I heard one teacher say "I just stood in front of my children.  I had to protect my children"........ not much protection, imo. 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Crazy Cat

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,370]

When a shooter is killed. Black out any info on them and bury their body at sea like the did Osama and for  the same reason 

[Boiler 45,442]

2 minutes ago, Crazy Cat said:

I haven't seen anyone who says that arming teachers is the only method to secure schools....but it would provide a last line of defense......which might have saved lives in this latest situation.

When you have heavily armed and trained Police sitting on their backsides,  it seems pretty desperate, obviously it is not impossible but a real roll of the dice.

 

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,370]

14 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

Content moderation is going to continue to get more and more silly in an effort to cater to everyone, instead of having clearly defined rules. When outside websites close off commenting but encourage people to use facebook or twitter, they are effectively outsourcing to another company to deal with 'the problem' and taking no responsibility for their own content. Everyone has certain perceptions about 'free speech' and eventually there's going to be a comment somewhere that are going to get removed and someone isn't going to like it. That's the way it is. There was this crazy chick on twitter that would harass a celeb by tweeting graphic photos and threatening to kill them every day. I think that was a pretty clear line of content that wasn't acceptable... well the twitter bots didn't think so for the longest time. I follow a travel vlogger, and they had their video demonetized. They had no idea why and no one else did either. We think it might have been an algorithm detecting a shirtless male in a pool? Or maybe someone reported for kicks, anyway long fuss later, and getting someone that knows someone to actually physically review the thing, got them reinstated but no explanation at all.

The problem is with humans involved everything is subjective. Google the Sanford college experiment some of the students were mock prison guards and some prisoners. When the guards got power the went berserk.

 

Once of the problems today is no one has tolerance for other opinions. We see it in politics . In older times politicians disagreed on policy but remained friends and did not try to ruin each other with personal attacks. "in most cases". You see it all over the internet, and of course we have seen it repeatedly here. 

 

I got a coworker who was posting about the election on FB and asked any who disagreed to unfriend him.

 

People like me who appreciate all view points and can vehemently disagree with someone and still respect and like them are becoming more rare. Us true Middle of the road types are becoming rare. 

 

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Nature Boy 2.0

[Crazy Cat 41,806]

Two things are certain:

1.  These tragedies happen time and time again.

2.  The current methods aren't working well enough.

Isn't it time for some people to think outside their "box"?

[beloved_dingo 1,976]

16 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

Content moderation is going to continue to get more and more silly in an effort to cater to everyone, instead of having clearly defined rules. When outside websites close off commenting but encourage people to use facebook or twitter, they are effectively outsourcing to another company to deal with 'the problem' and taking no responsibility for their own content. Everyone has certain perceptions about 'free speech' and eventually there's going to be a comment somewhere that are going to get removed and someone isn't going to like it. That's the way it is. There was this crazy chick on twitter that would harass a celeb by tweeting graphic photos and threatening to kill them every day. I think that was a pretty clear line of content that wasn't acceptable... well the twitter bots didn't think so for the longest time. I follow a travel vlogger, and they had their video demonetized. They had no idea why and no one else did either. We think it might have been an algorithm detecting a shirtless male in a pool? Or maybe someone reported for kicks, anyway long fuss later, and getting someone that knows someone to actually physically review the thing, got them reinstated but no explanation at all.

Speaking of moderating, young people are also pretty good at getting around the AI moderation because they just censor certain words, add asterisks, misspell, etc. Meanwhile, perfectly harmless posts get removed or moderated because something like "I would kill for a burger right now" gets flagged just for the use of the word "kill". The only social media I use now is Instagram and the one and only time I had a comment flagged was because I used the word "traitor". I don't get it. 

Edited May 27, 2022 by beloved_dingo

[Redro 4,611]

10 minutes ago, Crazy Cat said:

1.  Are teachers prepared for other emergencies...such as CPR?  Use of other emergency equipment?

2.  In an emergency situation, EVERYTHING else is unimportant. Not sure why we expect teachers to be the bastion of society always looking out for others and not themselves. If security guards and police won't protect others... why should we expect teachers to protect children? Why do we expect teachers to act as proxy parents? 

3.  That is easily solved with PROPER storage methods. What are "proper storage methods"? My dad owned a store and was robbed several times. IF he had his gun in a safe while trying to protect his store/ his customers it would not be possible... You need to carry the gun on your person. I say this as someone who 1.) grew up with guns in the house and am okay with gun ownership. 

4.  The only protection school children have now is to hide and HOPE the shooter doesn't find them.....Schools need to only allow authorized personnel into said school. Where I am from parents needed stickers on the cars showing they were allowed to enter school property. No sticker? You have to sign in and have a legit reason for being on school property. 

Playing hide and seek is not acceptable when lives are at stake. I grew up in a country where we were preparing for civil war. I know all about the "play hide and seek" drills... not fun and I don't want other children to grow up with that memory. 

 

 

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,370]

1 minute ago, beloved_dingo said:

Speaking of moderating, young people are also pretty good at getting around the AI moderation because they just censor certain words, add asterisks, misspell, etc. Meanwhile, perfectly harmless posts get removed or moderated because something like "I would kill for a burger right now" gets flagged just for the use of the word "kill". The only social media I use now is Instagram and the one and only time I had a comment flagged because I used the word "traitor". I don't get it. 

I got a warning on FB and a post deleted one time. I was joking with a good friend. I told him I am too fat to run, to old to fight, so I mat just have to shoot you. LOL

[Redro 4,611]

1 minute ago, beloved_dingo said:

Speaking of moderating, young people are also pretty good at getting around the AI moderation because they just censor certain words, add asterisks, misspell, etc. Meanwhile, perfectly harmless posts get removed or moderated because something like "I would kill for a burger right now" gets flagged just for the use of the word "kill". The only social media I use now is Instagram and the one and only time I had a comment flagged was because I used the word "traitor". I don't get it. 

Send me a PM @beloved_dingo I only use instagram and love looking at posts from all over the world. 

BAD PEOPLE WITH GUNS ARE BAD! 

[beloved_dingo 1,976]

3 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

I got a warning on FB and a post deleted one time. I was joking with a good friend. I told him I am too fat to run, to old to fight, so I mat just have to shoot you. LOL

*headdesk* 

 

Yeah context really matters and clearly the AI isn't good enough. 

3 minutes ago, ROK2USA said:

Send me a PM @beloved_dingo I only use instagram and love looking at posts from all over the world. 

BAD PEOPLE WITH GUNS ARE BAD! 

I think that's one sentiment we can certainly all agree with. 

 

PM sent. 

[Boiler 45,442]

I have/had 4 immediate family members who are/were teachers not in the US but not sure that matters and maybe one of them could handle a gun? So that is very much in my thought process. 
 

Also let’s say your career is 40 years and the vast majority of teachers are never going to be in such a situation how do you keep awareness? 
 

I have always thought that by its design Social Media and content moderation are incompatible 

 

For some reason VJ does not like the slang for cigarette and that is just one example

[B_J 2,752]

58 minutes ago, ROK2USA said:

I am so shocked at the suggestions people think arming teachers is the right course of action. 

1.) Teachers are already overworked an underpaid. Now they need to keep up to train to deal with active shooters and be prepared to shoot someone who comes into the classroom?  We train right now to deal with active shooters but the drill is just lock your door and hide.  Hide and hope the good guys kill the shooter before the shooter kills us.

2.) Is anyone here a teacher? Yes, high school.  Teachers are constantly moving around the classroom trying to focus on 30 different individuals... now at the back of their mind they need to think about how to react (with a weapon) towards an active shooter?  This is not beyond our abilities.  Right now, when I think about an active shooter situation, I know we'll probably die.  All of us.  Period.  Because I have no means to defend myself or my students. 

3.) Little kids are super touchy feely and will get everywhere and anywhere... Where should an elementary teacher store the gun? On their person or at the desk... 

The gun can't be super secured because they need immediate access to said gun if an active shooter arrives... Where should the gun be in an elementary school?  A gun safe would work fine.  If there is any warning, even if is just a few seconds, this lets the teacher arm themselves and be ready to protect their students.  Of course, there will be situations where there is no warning, so being armed or not wouldn't make a difference but, just a few seconds could mean the difference in saving multiple lives.  Or letting them die.

4.) If THE POLICE aren't comfortable entering a building because they're scared they'll be shot what does that mean for teachers? There is already a shortage... are schools now only going to hire teachers who state they are comfortable teaching knowing they could get shot/ are fine with shooting someone in front of their students? Not every teacher needs to volunteer to be an armed protector.  If someone isn't comfortable in that role, that's fine.  But please, let the rest of us protect ourselves and our kids.

If someone can answer these questions I would be very happy... 

I'm all for hiring more armed guards or making sure only authorized people enter the school... but I don't understand the logistics of arming elementary school teachers. Honestly, the idea that we can prevent people from getting in the school or in classrooms is not realistic.  If someone wants to, they will enter the building.  In most schools, there are simply too many entrances to deal with.  My building has 10 entrances plus entrances designed for deliveries and custodians.  They can't all be covered.  People will find a way in.  We need a plan to deal with them when they get in.  Hiding and hoping is not a good plan.

(only talking elementary as the school in question was an elementary school). I'm pretty sure that most shootings happen at high schools, rather than elementary schools.  With that being said, I think it would be a good idea to have more police at elementary schools than at high schools.  This is because I think it would be more difficult to find teachers willing to arm themselves in elementary schools.  At high schools, there will be more teachers swilling to help, so that would allow police to focus on lower grades.

Until we find a way to prevent, or cure, whatever mental issue causes a kid to become a shooter, this will happen.  So we need to find a way to deal with the problem when it happens.  

[Redro 4,611]

9 minutes ago, B_J said:

Until we find a way to prevent, or cure, whatever mental issue causes a kid to become a shooter, this will happen.  So we need to find a way to deal with the problem when it happens.  

Thanks for the answers. 

I appreciate your replies.. I agree some teachers will agree to be armed but not all classrooms will have an armed teacher... so if the shooter enters that one classroom with an unarmed teacher?

I think? we agree... schools probably need more social workers... more people willing to check in on at risk students.

But really, that isn't a help when the shooter has no connection to the school and has already graduated. 

Edited May 27, 2022 by ROK2USA

[B_J 2,752]

1 minute ago, ROK2USA said:

Thanks for the answers. 

I appreciate your replies.. I agree some teachers will agree to be armed but not all classrooms will have an armed teacher... so if the shooter enters that one classroom with an unarmed teacher?

I think? we agree... schools probably need more social workers... more people willing to check in on at risk students.

But, really! That isn't a help when the shooter has no connection to the school and has already graduated. 

Me and my colleagues talked about this.  I think I mentioned it in this thread or the other.  We all, even the one's who are normally far to the left, are comfortable with the idea of arming teachers.  That's just the teachers I talk to.  But there also needs to be school psychologists on campus.  Every campus.  And teachers need to be trained on signs to look for in a student so that we can discretely refer the kid to the psychologist.  We need to help the kids before it reaches this point.  

 

In other words, we need to really invest in proactive prevention.  But we also need to be honest about how to deal with the situation when it does happen.  I don't like the idea of teachers standing in front of their students to protect them.  Because, in the end, they're not protecting them.  They're just putting themselves in position to get shot first.  And then the kids get shot anyway.  I prefer to be in front of my kids and actively protecting them.  Yes, I am willing to die for my kids but I'd prefer to die while fighting back, not just being the first target.