Why does the US hate AOS from tourist visas?

[JeanneAdil 6,489]

1 hour ago, Jordanian Bride said:

Thank you, you're the first to answer my question without preaching to the converted!

 

But I always thought, even if so, don't the immigrants adjusting status have to provide criminal report from their home country (and any other country they have resided in aged 16+)?

For the I e485 , since i did not have to do this,  i am no way all knowledgeable on the subject but reading thru the instructions , it does not say the person produces a criminal report

think:

if a person bought this and birth certificate and National ID and the required passport photos,  any good CBP person would suspect the person's intent was to AOS here and the CO would deny entry (i watch a lot of customs and border security on youtube )

and a person can not leave the US and go back to get one (and some countries demand the person appear in person to apply for one)

if ever convicted of a crime ,  it says this

 

An original or certified copy of the complete arrest report; the indictment, information, or other formal charging document; any plea agreement, whether in the form of a court filing or recording in a hearing transcript; and the final disposition for each incident (for example, conviction record, deferred adjudication order, probation order)

 

but i do not read criminal report needed to AOS

mainly it would be a K1 intending  immigrant doing AOS and they would have provided the report at the embassy interview ,

 

 

https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/forms/i-485instr.pdf

 

pages 8-15

 

 

not sure USCIS cares as it is allowed under immigration law

U.S. immigration law (under section 245(a) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA)) allows people to file for a change of status (Adjustment of Status) if they enter the U.S on a visitor visa and meet the requirements to apply for lawful permanent residency (LPR) in the U.S.

Edited May 23, 2022 by JeanneAdil

[Ben & Katy 168]

1 hour ago, Jordanian Bride said:

So there is no submitting police reports for AOS from a tourist visa? Isn't that a major loophole?

 

Now this is the kinda juice I started this topic for!

Do you know any more about the story? If the owner has opened a business providing jobs to at least 10 US citizens (and brought $0.5million), then he did what he came to the USA to do, right?

In Mexico there are a lot of businesses that work as a facade that doesn't exist.  These fake companies operate for people to have fake paystubs that they can take to their tourist visa interviews at the local consulates in Mexico.  The facades not only work for this purpose but money laundering and trafficking in some instances.  So imagine someone here on a tourist visa that got approved over fake proof of employment staying here?  Also each time that the paper permission slip which i believe is an I-94 runs out Mexicans have to present updated proof of employment in order to get a new permission slip.  

[CMJuilland 485]

A lot of it has already been said. 

To reiterate: USCIS and embassies are part of two different departments (DHS vs. DOS), which means different means, different responsibilities, and different resources.  Also, it is easier and uses up fewer resources if a person can be vetted in their home country and denied an immigrant visa (or, as is the case for the K1 visa, a non-immigrant visa with immigrant intent) than doing it here in the U.S.  From the U.S.’s perspective, it is simply cheaper to not let somebody come than to keep them in the system here, run after them, and remove them.  

I am not entirely familiar with tourist visas and what is asked in them, but I remember from an F1 visa application almost two decades ago that it was vastly different from my K1 visa (I don’t recall needing a police certificate from every country I lived in nor did I need a medical; the most important thing there was bank statements to prove that I was able to pay my tuition).  

On top of that, a tourist visa is often valid for 10 years (which is not the same as being able to stay for ten solid years!), so circumstances can change significantly during that time, whereas immigrant visas are a lot more limited with regard to time (I believe they need to be activated within a year of the medical being conducted, but I could be wrong here).  

So, from what I can see (and through my fiscally quite conservative lens), coming here on a tourist visa with the purpose of, well, being a tourist and then adjusting status adds to the cost of an already overtaxed (and overexpensive) system for, among others, the reasons outlined above.  I also feel obliged to stress the fraud factor, even though OP has been going out of their way to stress that they’re not considering this route, but for whoever might stumble into this thread: it’s fraud to come on a tourist visa with the intention to adjust status here. 

 

Edited May 23, 2022 by CMJuilland

[Letspaintcookies 2,310]

1 hour ago, Pinkrlion said:

It is immigration fraud

OP is aware of it and is asking for the why.

 

 

I could imagine that it also has something to do with the risk of admitting people into the US that might don't follow through with AOS and subsequently live here undocumented 🤔 of course that can happen with somebody who gets here on a K1 as well but the risk is somewhat smaller. 

 

[Family 3,988]

3 hours ago, Jordanian Bride said:

It's not like you are adjusting status despite an ineligibility to

Well, you have hit the nail on the head!  It actually IS an ineligibility waived / forgiven for IR ( immediate relatives only ) .. why? cause US is a cool country ! 
 

however even an IR  ( that is Consular processing CAN / OFTEN IS found inadmissible for things like previous work without authorization , status violations where such actions are deemed presumption of …fraud/ misrep on previous visitor visa apps.

[Villanelle 4,122]

3 hours ago, Jordanian Bride said:

Hey guys, don't jump on the hate train! We're not planning to do that, and can't anyway.

 

I've been studying the immigration process very closely ever see we embarked on this journey, and I don't get it from a US point of view. If you adjust status, then you qualify for a green card, and your visa bulletin is current. It's not like you are adjusting status despite an ineligibility to do so. What kind of problems, possibly security or workload related does it create for USCIS for aliens to adjust status from a tourist visa?

 

I am not looking for an answer like "Well, it wouldn't be fair to the immigrants who went through consular processing." I know it isn't fair, but USCIS doesn't care about how we feel, so what's the actual reason?

USCIS doesn't make the laws, congress does. So why does Congress oppose it? Because it's not fair and yes, Congress does care about making laws that are fair and just and follow the concepts our nation was built upon as well as current POV of the general public.

 

The flow of immigration in and out of any nation is a complex topic that I'm sure you can find many published opinions on online if you are inclined.

[SteveInBostonI130 3,432]

5 hours ago, Jordanian Bride said:

Guys, y'all are not reading the post. I am not protesting and whining that we want to adjust status on a tourist visa. I come from a high visa fraud country, and I hate that we created that reputation for ourselves.

 

That being said, I am trying to discuss why it is unethical in the eyes of the law, and if there are security and other concerns I am overlooking. I know we have a strict policy against visa fraud, and I don't see how I am going against that? This is a discussion about USCIS concerns.

 

Some countries do not allow tourists to marry if they arrive on a tourist visa.  They have separate visas for that purpose, but US is not one of them.  

 

The reasons some countries are high visa fraud countries is partly because of the topic you want to discuss - entering on a non-immigrant visa and then immigrating.  A part of the B1/B2 visa interview process is the CO assuming the applicant has immigrant intent unless they prove to the officer that they do not.  Enough people not abiding by the terms of their tourist visas - overstaying and adjusting status - makes it seem either the US embassy/consulate really bad at their job or the applicants really good at fooling the COs.   Therefore the consular unit "tightens up" on their review and interview process and make it very difficult to get tourist visas.  That is one of the reasons why adjusting status from a tourist visa is frowned upon, and illegal to do so if doing it with prior intent.  

 

For example, a single Ukrainian woman has just about zero chance of getting a tourist visa.  It's not impossible, but very difficult.  Followed by single Ukrainian men.  This is because there is a history of this group violating their visas - overstaying, working and/or immigrating.  But Ukrainian men and women have little difficulty in getting fiance and spousal visas, because this group of people abide by the terms of their visa (travelling to the US and marrying their fiance or being in a bona fide relationship with their USC/LPR spouse).  There are very little fiance and marriage frauds and therefore the US embassy is more confident in approving these visas.

 

Edited May 24, 2022 by SteveInBostonI130

[African Zealot 1,455]

25 minutes ago, SteveInBostonI130 said:

But Ukrainian men and women have little difficulty in getting fiance and spousal visas, because this group of people abide by the terms of their visa (travelling to the US and marrying their fiance or being in a bona fide relationship with their USC/LPR spouse).  There are very little fiance and marriage frauds and therefore the US embassy is more confident in approving these visas.

Are you sure about this? Ukrainian and Russian women are near the top of list of foreigners who use American spouses to get to the USA and then dump them and file VAWA on them many times frivolously to avoid the joint petition to remove conditions.
 

They have the formula down pat, not saying all of them but it’s common. I don’t call that good faith abiding by terms and conditions. That’s exploiting the system.

Edited May 24, 2022 by African Zealot

[SteveInBostonI130 3,432]

12 minutes ago, African Zealot said:

Are you sure about this? Ukrainian and Russian women are near the top of list of foreigners who use American spouses to get to the USA and then dump them and file VAWA on them many times frivolously to avoid the joint petition to remove conditions.
 

They have the formula down pat, not saying all of them but it’s common. I don’t call that good faith abiding by terms and conditions. That’s exploiting the system.

 

I am sure. 

 

My wife was asked four questions at her visa inteview and it took about 15 minutes (plus 35 minutes of waiting in the lobby).   No issues.  And no issues for many other we have met and chatted with.

 

Do you have any information about this?  Any reports? 

Edited May 24, 2022 by SteveInBostonI130

[TBoneTX 45,244]

Swearing believably to the consular officer at the tourist-visa interview that one intends to return is a matter of faith.  Often, the only thing that the CO has to go on is the applicant's travel history -- a good record of visiting other countries and returning.

 

Entering on a tourist visa is one thing.  However, there's nothing to stop the "change of mind at baggage claim."

 

Congress needs to revise immigration law to prohibit adjustment of status from tourist visas -- period.

[African Zealot 1,455]

7 minutes ago, SteveInBostonI130 said:

 

Do you have any information about this?  Any reports?

 

My wife was asked four questions at her visa inteview and it took about 15 minutes (plus 35 minutes of waiting in the lobby).   No issues.

 

 

Numerous.

 

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/federal-review-finds-immigrants-fraudulently-claim-domestic-abuse-to-gain-citizenship/176873/

 

John Sampson is a retired ICE agent who has formed  an organization to fight exactly that and petition congress to change VAWA. He cites numerous such cases with the perpetrators  from those countries.

[African Zealot 1,455]

10 minutes ago, TBoneTX said:

Entering on a tourist visa is one thing.  However, there's nothing to stop the "change of mind at baggage claim."😂🤣😂

 

Congress needs to revise immigration law to prohibit adjustment of status from tourist visas -- period.

Unfortunately that’s not going to happen. Congress can’t seem to agree on anything concerning immigration including the reality that the system is both simultaneously abused by fraudsters and puts significant roadblocks in the paths of genuine applicants.
 

The entire US immigration system is anachronistic and needs overhaul.

Edited May 24, 2022 by African Zealot

[TBoneTX 45,244]

No one said that it would happen.

[SteveInBostonI130 3,432]

9 minutes ago, African Zealot said:

Numerous.

 

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/federal-review-finds-immigrants-fraudulently-claim-domestic-abuse-to-gain-citizenship/176873/

 

John Sampson is a retired ICE agent who has formed  an organization to fight exactly that and petition congress to change VAWA. He cites numerous such cases with the perpetrators  from those countries.

 

That report sighted 1 incident of a fraud claim against a Russian woman.  Also, the woman was already in the US - Maryland, when the man met her.  None of the other 332 cases of VAWA fraud mentions Russian or Ukrainian women, or men. 

 

Here is something interesting that I discovered while trying to see if there is a list of countries for fiance/spousal visa fraud:

 

https://www.lawfirm4immigrants.com/fiance-visa-fraud-avoiding-false-accusations/

 

Quote

Unfortunately, which country your fiancé(e) is from matters when you sponsor a fiancé(e) visa because immigration fraud is disproportionately prevalent among the citizens of certain countries. Of course, there is no country in the world for which most visa applications are fraudulent. Nevertheless, the countries on the USCIS watch list include (in alphabetical order):

• China
• Ghana
• India
• Kenya
• Mexico
• Morocco
• Nigeria
• Pakistan
• Philippines
• Yemen

Citizens of countries such as Syria and Venezuela might also experience increased scrutiny because difficult conditions in those countries might motivate some to commit immigration fraud.

 

It's interesting to see Ghana on that list, and not Ukraine or Russia.

 

As I stated earlier, in the Ukrainian circles my wife and I are involved with, we have never hear of any incidents of VAWA or other marriage fraud. 

 

I do know of 2 people who adjusted status from tourist visas, with which I do agree there seems to be some people that abuse the tourist visa.

[SteveInBostonI130 3,432]

39 minutes ago, African Zealot said:

Numerous.

 

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/federal-review-finds-immigrants-fraudulently-claim-domestic-abuse-to-gain-citizenship/176873/

 

John Sampson is a retired ICE agent who has formed  an organization to fight exactly that and petition congress to change VAWA. He cites numerous such cases with the perpetrators  from those countries.

 

Also, a report from Center for Immigration Studies with actual VAWA self petitions by country:

 

https://cis.org/Sharkey/New-Data-Emerges-SelfPetitioning-Abused-Alien-Spouses

 

Quote

Methodology

To standardize and randomize the examination of these AAO decisions, we chose to reemploy the method used originally by North and review every 16th AAO decision from 2015 through 2018. In total, we reviewed 73 cases from the 1,124 available (6.5 percent). 

..

Given the secrecy regarding the initial decisions in the program, one of the few glimpses into it comes when an alien is denied staff approval for the benefit, and the alien (or his/her lawyer) files an appeal with the Administrative Appeals Office (AAO)

..

Nation of Origin

In comparison to the data from 2011 to 2014, luckily there has been a greater overall percentage of AAO decisions that indicate the petitioner's nation of origin, from 61.3 percent for 2011 through 2014 to 78.1 percent for 2015 through 2018. Of the 57 from 2015 through 2018 that indicated nation of origin, we found the following:

 

Mexico	11
Nigeria	7
Kenya	5
India	4
China	3
Dominican Republic	3
Ghana	3
Honduras	3
The Gambia	2
Morocco	2
Benin	1
Colombia	1
Greece	1
Guatemala	1
Jamaica	1
Liberia	1
Niger	1
Pakistan	1
Peru	1
Philippines	1
Poland	1
Russia	1
Uzbekistan	1
Yemen	1
Total	57

 

The above table is a sample size from 1,124 case that went to AAO.  The study used AAO as an indicator that the VAWA self petition was denied and therefore the decision was appealed, as a general indication of VAWA fraud or other issue.   Again, Ukraine and Russia is not on the "top of the list".

 

When making accusations, please back them up with some facts or research.