Can we use an online marriage when filing for a fiance visa? Because the marriage is not yet consummated

[John & Rose 7,239]

26 minutes ago, Jorgedig said:

The date discrepancy should get some scrutiny.   How can it possibly be legal to gain an immigrant benefit (unconditional GC) solely based on a date, when the applicant was not eligible for the same benefit (visa requiring both parties to be unmarried at the time it is issued) ?   
 

If this is in fact going to be legal going forward, then it will be a huge loophole that K1s could exploit to save significant time and money.

Agreed.  I didn't think it would work in the first place but what may work for State may not work for USCIS.  I am still watching this one.  They are actually paying for AOS so they are not saving money.  They may also get denied for adjustment so the lawyers will also cost them.

[Dashinka 24,900]

2 minutes ago, John & Rose said:

Agreed.  I didn't think it would work in the first place but what may work for State may not work for USCIS.  I am still watching this one.  They are actually paying for AOS so they are not saving money.  They may also get denied for adjustment so the lawyers will also cost them.

This seems sort of like a quasi K3 which also would require AOS.  I realize it is not, since in this case the DoS did not view them as married.  It is not really the same scenario where we have seen K1's denied because of some elaborate engagement party or a religious ceremony because in that case the two parties were present together.  It appears that if this couple had met again in person prior to the K1 being issued, the K1 would have been denied.

 

It is an interesting case, and it might have always been available, but rarely used.  However, as we have seen, Covid has changed many things.

[John & Rose 7,239]

26 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

This seems sort of like a quasi K3 which also would require AOS.  I realize it is not, since in this case the DoS did not view them as married.  It is not really the same scenario where we have seen K1's denied because of some elaborate engagement party or a religious ceremony because in that case the two parties were present together.  It appears that if this couple had met again in person prior to the K1 being issued, the K1 would have been denied.

 

It is an interesting case, and it might have always been available, but rarely used.  However, as we have seen, Covid has changed many things.

I think the date of the marriage will be interesting as they were not “officially” married in the eyes of the state department until after the K-1(?) got to the states and they met again. For AOS the marriage certificate will show the date of the actual ceremony before arriving on the K-1. They are probably going to end up fine but I will bet there will be some head scratching going on at USCIS. 

[brii 34]

No, don't listen to anyone's advice telling you to go ahead with your plans. Consult a lawyer instead, but from what I'm reading: You are filing for a K1 FIANCEE visa. YOU. CAN'T. BE. MARRIED. Online, physical, spiritual, whatever; you are NOT allowed to be married and file for a K1 visa. You need to have met in person as well. AGAIN. YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO BE MARRIED WHEN FILING FOR A K1 VISA.

Edited May 31, 2022 by brainilio

[Dashinka 24,900]

31 minutes ago, brainilio said:

No, don't listen to anyone's advice telling you to go ahead with your plans. Consult a lawyer instead, but from what I'm reading: You are filing for a K1 FIANCEE visa. YOU. CAN'T. BE. MARRIED. Online, physical, spiritual, whatever; you are NOT allowed to be married and file for a K1 visa. You need to have met in person as well. AGAIN. YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO BE MARRIED WHEN FILING FOR A K1 VISA.

I don't disagree, and in the case of the OP, they cannot even file the I129F since they have not met in person.  That being said, I don't think we can ignore the the way that DoS considers what a legal marriage is and how it interprets "consummation".  There does appear to be a loophole for the K1 relative to the DoS and USCIS and the timing of a proxy marriage and subsequent consummation meeting.  This is not the same thing as getting married remotely or otherwise, meeting in person and then filing the I129F/K1.

[brii 34]

Just now, Dashinka said:

I don't disagree, and in the case of the OP, they cannot even file the I129F since they have not met in person.  That being said, I don't think we can ignore the the way that DoS considers what a legal marriage is and how it interprets "consummation".  There does appear to be a loophole for the K1 relative to the DoS and USCIS and the timing of a proxy marriage and subsequent consummation meeting.  This is not the same thing as getting married remotely or otherwise, meeting in person and then filing the I129F/K1.

Didn't know that! I guess I'm just very very very scared of stepping on eggshells when it comes with the USCIS

[Dashinka 24,900]

1 minute ago, brainilio said:

Didn't know that! I guess I'm just very very very scared of stepping on eggshells when it comes with the USCIS

I certainly agree, and this loophole for the K1 is very interesting.  Overall, I cannot really see why anyone would take this route, so I imagine it would be very rare.

[Mike E 11,742]

The loophole won’t work for the 3 year rule for naturalization. I know of  no reason why it won’t work to get a 10 year green card.  The conditional LPR stuff seemed to have been hurriedly written by Congress to solve a problem that wasn’t a problem and is moot anyway.  

[John & Rose 7,239]

1 hour ago, Mike E said:

The loophole won’t work for the 3 year rule for naturalization. I know of  no reason why it won’t work to get a 10 year green card.  The conditional LPR stuff seemed to have been hurriedly written by Congress to solve a problem that wasn’t a problem and is moot anyway.  

If I remember this whole story, they may have filed the I-130 before consummation of the marriage and when they realized that, their lawyer withdrew the spousal (which would have been denied) and filed the K-1.  It is definitely not a path others should try to duplicate but it is working for them so far.  They had to withdraw the spousal and their option was to wait to meet again or follow the path their lawyer mentioned.  It is very rare to hear about a lawyer that actually knows their stuff when it comes to immigration.  Most just look at a quick buck for a very easy process.  This lawyer impressed me once I really understood all of the details.  At first I didn't think it was legit but looking at DoS guidance, they were legally justified.

[navypilot29 16]

My wife and I did a zoom wedding at the start of COVID and it was accepted with no problems.  She came to the US about 5 months ago.  Spousal visa though would have to be consummated unless there was a religious reason.   

[Redro 4,612]

31 minutes ago, navypilot29 said:

My wife and I did a zoom wedding at the start of COVID and it was accepted with no problems.  She came to the US about 5 months ago.  Spousal visa though would have to be consummated unless there was a religious reason.   

Consummation means meeting in person. What religious reasons would stop a married couple from meeting? 

[navypilot29 16]

Consummation of marriage is “the actualization of marriage” which is the first act of sexual intercourse.   That is the legal definition from www.law.Cornell.edu.  It is more than just a couple meeting.  I read about some kind of religious exemptions but it didn’t apply to me so I didn’t research it.  I assumed it was mostly for some Muslim cultures or something like that.  

Edited June 6, 2022 by navypilot29

[Redro 4,612]

13 minutes ago, navypilot29 said:

Consummation of marriage is “the actualization of marriage” which is the first act of sexual intercourse.   That is the legal definition from www.law.Cornell.edu.  It is more than just a couple meeting.  I read about some kind of religious exemptions but it didn’t apply to me so I didn’t research it.  I assumed it was mostly for some Muslim cultures or something like that.  

But, USCIS does not ask for proof you consummated the marriage. They just need proof you met in person. 

 

USCIS instructions: 

 

Do not include

 

• Graphic photos of childbirth or intimate relations as evidence of a relationship or marriage

There might be religious exemptions for the K1 visa. But, I  don't understand how you could tell USCIS with a straight face you aren't allowed to meet with your spouse for religious reasons... 

[navypilot29 16]

11 minutes ago, ROK2USA said:

But, USCIS does not ask for proof you consummated the marriage. They just need proof you met in person. 

 

USCIS instructions: 

 

Do not include

 

• Graphic photos of childbirth or intimate relations as evidence of a relationship or marriage

There might be religious exemptions for the K1 visa. But, I  don't understand how you could tell USCIS with a straight face you aren't allowed to meet with your spouse for religious reasons... 

Look, I am stating what I did for my wife to get her green card.  You aren't reading the definition...you seem to be stuck on consummation as being just meeting. The definition is sexual intercourse AFTER marriage.  Even if you had kids before marriage, that does not consummate marriage.  We provided the proof of travel and an affidavit.  Technically if you met and did not consummate the marriage you would be in violation.  So go to your interview and say you haven't had sex after marriage and see how that goes.  So thanks for that screenshot of one item, but it missed the actual rule that the original post was asking for.

[Kanny Dale 4]

2 hours ago, navypilot29 said:

My wife and I did a zoom wedding at the start of COVID and it was accepted with no problems.  She came to the US about 5 months ago.  Spousal visa though would have to be consummated unless there was a religious reason. 

But you presented proof of meeting right? Like travel documents going here in the Philippines? For my case we haven't met 😭