EVs No Longer an Economic Alternative to ICEs As Supercharging Rates Go Through the Roof

[Dashinka 24,718]

I guess the electricity rates also increase.

 

EVs No Longer an Economic Alternative to ICEs As Supercharging Rates Go Through the Roof

 

But even in the U.S. where Superchargers charge you by the kWh things have gone haywire. A Tesla owner shared on Twitter the Supercharging rates from the Los Angeles area and indicated that they roughly doubled in the past years. To be sure, the $0.58/kWh rate is for the peak hours from 11 am to 9 pm, with half that outside this interval. Twitter users across the U.S. have indicated similar rates, with averages of $0,40 becoming the norm.

Of course, most of the time charging at home is cheaper, especially when solar energy is used, but not all Tesla owners have access to home charging. For those who don’t, charging an electric vehicle will become more expensive in the future. This will make owning an EV less compelling, especially as the upfront price of buying one has also got prohibitive.

 

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/evs-no-longer-an-economic-alternative-to-ices-as-supercharging-rates-go-through-the-roof-188884.html

[Mike E 11,742]

Tesla is charging more for supercharging simply because it can.  That’s what monopoly power lets one do.  
 

Recall  that through and until  q1 2017 every Tesla came with lifetime free super charging.  That stopped after Tesla was successful enough to stop offering it.  
 

Meanwhile, while Ford struggles to manufacture 5000 electric “Mustangs” a month; Tesla struggles to manufacture 5000 cars per week day.  and buyers are willing wait 6 months for delivery.  
 

Completely agree that an EV without home charging is impractical. With home charging though, there is little reason to own an ICE in a temperate climate.  Especially a temperate climate outside California.  Electricity is 1/5th the cost in Arizona vs California.  

Edited May 17, 2022 by Mike E

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,378]

I just took some training on Toyotas new all electric coming this summer. I was underwhelmed.  The BZ4X its a nice car, but range in  the low 200's and price point of 40K starting.

 

I am all about Hybrids. The price point between hybrid and conventional is getting closer and closer. A Camry that gets 52 MPG aint too bad. 

[Dashinka 24,718]

1 hour ago, Mike E said:

Tesla is charging more for supercharging simply because it can.  That’s what monopoly power lets one do.  
 

Recall  that through and until  q1 2017 every Tesla came with lifetime free super charging.  That stopped after Tesla was successful enough to stop offering it.  
 

Meanwhile, while Ford struggles to manufacture 5000 electric “Mustangs” a month; Tesla struggles to manufacture 5000 cars per week day.  and buyers are willing wait 6 months for delivery.  
 

Completely agree that an EV without home charging is impractical. With home charging though, there is little reason to own an ICE in a temperate climate.  Especially a temperate climate outside California.  Electricity is 1/5th the cost in Arizona vs California.  

There are other circumstances where there is no business case for an EV even in a single family home.  We are looking for a vehicle for my wife to drive, and from a functional standpoint, an EV would work, but the payback period for comparably a equipped ICE vs EV puts the payback period close to 20 years just based on operational savings of electricity usage of the EV vs fuel + routine maintenance of the ICE.  For someone that only keeps a vehicle for a few years, the business case is not there.  Currently EVs are still in the early adopter phase, so people buying them are willing to put up with a lot, but as the mainstream car buyers start looking at them, they assess other factors.

 

I have always maintained that there is a market for EVs, but I don't see them completely replacing ICE or ICE Hybrid vehicles ever.  We shall see.  One of the biggest things I am curious about is how the EV trucks will be accepted.  I believe the Ford Lightning has about a 230 mile range, but one thing that always is avoided by Ford is the expected range when towing (a great many people use trucks to tow things).  I did a search, and the best I could find was Car & Driver that estimated a 60-70% reduction in range when towing.  If the folks in Michigan have to stop 1-3 times to re-charge for a 300 mile journey up North, they may not be very happy.

[Mike E 11,742]

Disruptive technology is always going to be inferior in multiple aspects to thing it replaces.  
 

EVs are

 

* simpler to make, operate, maintain. It’s why ICE replaced Steam, Steam replaced horse drawn. Why solid state storage replaced hard drivers in desktops and mobile compute devices. Ditto wireless  versus wired 
 

* a better experience for anyone who has a garage. Better experience is why turbo jet engine commercial aviation reduced turbo prop engine commercial aviation to a niche: too many pics of propellers slicing passenger seats. People who charge at home don’t get car jacked at the service station.  They might get car jacked at the supercharger, but the assailants wont get far.  
 

The EV versus ICE thing is a lifestyle enjoyment vs frugality thing.  

 

 

[Boiler 45,923]

Where I am gas has gone up 2 1/2 times

 

Early cars were often electric and I see the sense

 

Battery technology is the decider and that seems to be getting there

 

It will be interesting to see what happens when expensive gas stations have to be rebuilt or installed, there will come a point where it will not look a good long term investment 

 

I also expect problems with legacy auto makers, takes a long time to make a return on new vehicle investment 

 

Part of the current supply issue is refinery’s they take time to build and a long time to recover the investment so is that a logical call or just make hay on what you have

Edited May 17, 2022 by Boiler

[Ban Hammer 13,475]

9 hours ago, Mike E said:

Meanwhile, while Ford struggles to manufacture 5000 electric “Mustangs” a month;

as it should be.

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,378]

40 minutes ago, Ban Hammer said:

as it should be.

Having had 4 Mustangs the thought of a EV Mustang is repulsive.  Dear god call it something else.

[LIBrty4all 3,754]

2 hours ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

Having had 4 Mustangs the thought of a EV Mustang is repulsive.  Dear god call it something else.

You realize that an EV Mustang (fugly, IMO) will blow your old Mustangs outta the water off the line?  The older ICE 'Stangs will feel more like Pintos.

[Dashinka 24,718]

7 hours ago, LIBrty4all said:

You realize that an EV Mustang (fugly, IMO) will blow your old Mustangs outta the water off the line?  The older ICE 'Stangs will feel more like Pintos.

Yes, I remember when I worked at the gold course many years ago, we had a mix of electric and gas powered golf carts.  The electrics were much quicker off the line, yet the country club members preferred the gas powered units as the electrics would get weak and eventually run out.  I cannot remember how many times I had to go out and exchange a golf cart as the battery went dead.

 

I agree the EV Mustang is pretty ugly, the Rivian truck is in the same category.  Ford was smart in making the EV F150 look like the rest of their trucks.  We will see how the Tesla truck is accepted, but it is very ugly as well.

[Mike E 11,742]

If the Tesla truck ever ships, it’s going to own the  category and will be the final nail  in GM’s coffin since all it has left really are Chev / GMC trucks.    

[Dashinka 24,718]

9 hours ago, Mike E said:

If the Tesla truck ever ships, it’s going to own the  category and will be the final nail  in GM’s coffin since all it has left really are Chev / GMC trucks.    

The question is which category?  The Tesla truck looks more like a mid-size truck, and does not look like a truck you can pull a 5th wheel, or large trailer with.  Plus it is ugly as sin IMO.

[Mike E 11,742]

54 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

The question is which category?  The Tesla truck looks more like a mid-size truck, and does not look like a truck you can pull a 5th wheel, or large trailer with.  Plus it is ugly as sin IMO.

Claims are it will tow 14,000 pounds.  Presumably the trimotor version.  
 

If it brings GM to its knees it’s clearly not too ugly.  
 

It is debatable if it will ever ship.  There is no need, today, for Tesla to make it a priority to bring into production as it is making plenty of cash with its current lineup of sedans (a category Ford and GM exited).  
 

 

[Boiler 45,923]

GM have major issues I can see them becoming a Chinese brand

[Dashinka 24,718]

1 hour ago, Mike E said:

Claims are it will tow 14,000 pounds.  Presumably the trimotor version.  
 

If it brings GM to its knees it’s clearly not too ugly.  
 

It is debatable if it will ever ship.  There is no need, today, for Tesla to make it a priority to bring into production as it is making plenty of cash with its current lineup of sedans (a category Ford and GM exited).  
 

 

Yeah, I am more of a sedan person myself.  Hate the boxy SUVs that are more mainstream today.  I am curious what the towing range would be if towing 14,000 lbs.