DS 260 "Have you ever been arrested..." question

[Bryan and An 23]

2 minutes ago, Jorgedig said:

OP, your FIL was arrested and imprisoned for NINE MONTHS in a foreign country.   
 

This is much bigger than yes/no answers to “have you ever been arrested” or criminal records from other countries. 
 

I don’t get why you’re downplaying it’s relevance to visa eligibility.

Not trying to downplay it. I mistyped and it was 7 months, not 9; still a long time. My main confusion was in the fact that he was never convicted, and in some areas the instructions seem to specify a conviction while other times states merely arrested.  While not trying to hide anything, I’m also a believer in only giving what is asked for. I just wasn’t sure where being arrested but then released with charges dropped (which my wife called home earlier to confirm was what happened) fell on the spectrum. Thanks for the feedback and help. 

[Lemonslice 4,836]

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Edited May 17, 2022 by Lemonslice

[Redro 4,611]

5 hours ago, Bryan and An said:

Not trying to downplay it. I mistyped and it was 7 months, not 9; still a long time. My main confusion was in the fact that he was never convicted, and in some areas the instructions seem to specify a conviction while other times states merely arrested.  While not trying to hide anything, I’m also a believer in only giving what is asked for. I just wasn’t sure where being arrested but then released with charges dropped (which my wife called home earlier to confirm was what happened) fell on the spectrum. Thanks for the feedback and help. 

Question is "Have you ever been arrested OR convicted for any offense or crime, even though subject of a pardon, amnesty, or other similar action?"

 

If someone was arrested for something they did not do and the charges were dropped you would still have to disclose it. 

This question also does not specify the location of the arrest. 

 

There is another question on the DS260 asking:

Have you ever been removed or deported from another country?

 

I would check in with your father-in-law and see if any of his release from prison paperwork states he was removed/deported. 

 

You want to answer the questions as honestly as possible. 

 

 

[Bryan and An 23]

1 hour ago, ROK2USA said:

Question is "Have you ever been arrested OR convicted for any offense or crime, even though subject of a pardon, amnesty, or other similar action?"

 

If someone was arrested for something they did not do and the charges were dropped you would still have to disclose it. 

This question also does not specify the location of the arrest. 

 

There is another question on the DS260 asking:

Have you ever been removed or deported from another country?

 

I would check in with your father-in-law and see if any of his release from prison paperwork states he was removed/deported. 

 

You want to answer the questions as honestly as possible. 

 

 

Thank you friend 

[Vegas i-751 66]

15 hours ago, Bryan and An said:

Hello! 

 

I'm working on the DS-260 for my father-in-law's IR-5 and was wondering about the "ever been arrested" question. He was never arrested in his home country (Vietnam) and his police record came back completely clear. However, several (~3) years ago, while fishing (his former job; he's retired now) he and the whole crew were arrested by Malaysian police and ended up spending about 9 months in jail in Malaysia. The charge was either fishing in Malaysian waters with an expired permit or no permit at all - can't remember exactly (regardless, they always fished exactly where the owner told them to). They were eventually all released when the owner of the fishing boat paid a certain amount of money - a fine, I suppose. I'm not sure exactly how it was all worded, or if there was ever a conviction per se as opposed to just being detained that long, but anyway he got out and went home and retired. 

 

I'm assuming I should put all of this, in as much detail as possible? My wife thinks maybe we don't need to since it wasn't in Vietnam, and he probably wouldn't be able to get any kind of records from Malaysia if he needed to. Thoughts? And if fully disclosed, what are the chances a type of arrest/imprisonment like this would hurt his case? Would he be asked to provide some kind of hard(impossible? to obtain records from Malaysia? 

 

Thanks for any and all help and advice!

He was arrested period. It’s no myth as you’ve stated. Declare yes as it’s the honest truth 👍 

Edited May 18, 2022 by Vegas i-751

[Pinkrlion 2,716]

I would start with his employer and see if they have copies of the records, and then you can move from there in obtaining copies of everything.  

[Redro 4,611]

6 hours ago, Bryan and An said:

Thank you friend 

So, I decided to look up the issue of illegal fishing in Malaysia. 

 

And found several reports and papers.

Most articles report Vietnamese fishermen are being arrested, detained and fined. 

In the article linked above, the crewmen in question pled guilty and were fined RM50,000 (USD $11,000) and  received a sentence of 3 months in prison. 

So, I would clarify what happened to your father-in-law and the fine he had to pay (even if it was paid by the owner of the boat) and why he spent 7 months in prison. 

 

Make sure he is telling the truth. 

This may or may not impact his immigration journey but as the immediate relative of a US citizen he should be given the opportunity to file a waiver if the CO thinks this is a crime involving moral turpitude. 

 

Just be 100% honest in the form. 

 

This report talks about repatriating Vietnamese fishermen. So, again try to figure out if your father-in-law was deported. And the exact nature of his arrest. 

 

This older article from 2019 mentions an increase in fines. But, no mention of detainment or prison sentences... so I'm not sure if your father-in-law understood exactly what happened after his arrest or if he is glossing over the seriousness of the crime. 

 

Hopefully it turns out to be no big deal. But, you definitely don't want to hide any of the details and get hit with misrepresentation. 

 

ETA: These articles were super easy to find. So, a CO could google "illegal fishing Malaysia" find out how serious Malaysia is taking the issue. See the amount crewmen pay these days. And think your father-in-law committed a serious offense and is trying to minimize the event. 

 

Edited May 18, 2022 by ROK2USA

[Adventine 3,196]

Just a thought: if OP has trouble getting records from the Malaysian authorities or from the father's Vietnamese employer, the Vietnamese embassy in Malaysia may be more helpful. It's likely the embassy got involved with an incident involving Vietnamese nationals arrested and then jailed on Malaysian territory.

 

[Bryan and An 23]

3 hours ago, ROK2USA said:

So, I decided to look up the issue of illegal fishing in Malaysia. 

 

And found several reports and papers.

Most articles report Vietnamese fishermen are being arrested, detained and fined. 

In the article linked above, the crewmen in question pled guilty and were fined RM50,000 (USD $11,000) and  received a sentence of 3 months in prison. 

So, I would clarify what happened to your father-in-law and the fine he had to pay (even if it was paid by the owner of the boat) and why he spent 7 months in prison. 

 

Make sure he is telling the truth. 

This may or may not impact his immigration journey but as the immediate relative of a US citizen he should be given the opportunity to file a waiver if the CO thinks this is a crime involving moral turpitude. 

 

Just be 100% honest in the form. 

 

This report talks about repatriating Vietnamese fishermen. So, again try to figure out if your father-in-law was deported. And the exact nature of his arrest. 

 

This older article from 2019 mentions an increase in fines. But, no mention of detainment or prison sentences... so I'm not sure if your father-in-law understood exactly what happened after his arrest or if he is glossing over the seriousness of the crime. 

 

Hopefully it turns out to be no big deal. But, you definitely don't want to hide any of the details and get hit with misrepresentation. 

 

ETA: These articles were super easy to find. So, a CO could google "illegal fishing Malaysia" find out how serious Malaysia is taking the issue. See the amount crewmen pay these days. And think your father-in-law committed a serious offense and is trying to minimize the event. 

 

Good points, and thanks for looking up the articles. This incident occurred in 2019, so probably right around the time of the increased fines, as you mentioned. 

 

Here's my understanding of what happened from that time - keep in mind it's basically thirdhand information, from my wife, who got it from her mother, who pieced it together from talking to the ship's owner, the owner's wife, and the limited opportunities she had to talk to her husband (my FIL) while he was detained, imprisoned, or whatever. 

 

My understanding of why they were held so long instead of just paying the fine is that the ship's owner didn't want to pay a dime, and none of the fishermen had any money. The 2019 article you linked says the minimum fine per crewman would have been RM 100,000, which according to Google is almost $28,000. This was probably 2 years' salary for my FIL and the other crewmen, who wouldn't have had any money at all, as they weren't paid until after a fishing trip was completed, and they had already been on the waters 8 or 9 months at the time of the arrests. There were a few court proceedings during those 7 months, in which the ship owner had a Malay-speaking lawyer representing all of the fishermen (but as I was led to understand, probably more concerned with representing his own interests - not surprising, I suppose). None of the crew members had a clue what was said during any of the proceedings either by the court or by the attorney supposedly representing them, but simultaneously representing the ship's owner. 

 

It was also my understanding that the owner's main concern, aside from not having to pay any money (or pay as little as possible) was getting his seized ships back (there were 2 ships seized together with a total of 30ish crewmen, I believe). In the end, getting the men released was conditioned upon his own (the owner's) admission of fault or guilt and then paying the hefty fine. And in the end, I believe that is what happened - I'm not sure if it was a negotiation of sorts, or haggling, for 7 months, but this was my perception. I don't know much about the court system in Malaysia, or how on the up-and-up they are, but it didn't seem that strange to me that the men would be held for 7 months without an actual conviction when even in the USA, you can look at the famous case of Kalief Browder, who was imprisoned for years in one of the toughest prisons in New York without a trial before eventually killing himself. Also, the owner of the ships never set foot in Malaysia during these proceedings, so there was never any risk of him himself being detained in the matter. 

 

Again, that's all my understanding from three years ago, and maybe not all that important other than being as honest and detailed as we can on the form and hoping for the best. Regardless of what happens, I'm just glad we've been able to support my wife's family in her dad's retirement, as it was a tough, dangerous job. Just last year, her cousin was killed by pirates and his body just dumped in the ocean when the ship he was fishing on was hijacked and the remaining crew members held for ransom. Less than a year before her dad's arrest, another cousin died on a fishing ship under hazy circumstances, his body never recovered. Rough job, commercial fishing in Vietnam. 

[Mike E 11,739]

7 months in prison.  
 

This isn’t even close to being a DIY case.  You need a competent immigration attorney with specific experience.  If you get this wrong I don’t know that you get a second crack at it. 

[Bryan and An 23]

19 minutes ago, Mike E said:

7 months in prison.  
 

This isn’t even close to being a DIY case.  You need a competent immigration attorney with specific experience.  If you get this wrong I don’t know that you get a second crack at it. 

Thank you. I have messaged an immigration law firm with an office in Saigon and will hopefully have a conversation with them later today. 

[Redro 4,611]

25 minutes ago, Bryan and An said:

Thank you. I have messaged an immigration law firm with an office in Saigon and will hopefully have a conversation with them later today. 

I suggest you also reach out to a law firm in Malaysia to see if they can help you understand the situation. 

Try to get information from the former boss (discover the name of the Malay lawyer who defended your father-in-law; obtain the paperwork from the proceedings).

Good luck! Sounds like your father-in-law was lucky to escape a very dangerous lifestyle. Hopefully, he can join you in the US. 

 

 

[Spotify 76]

On 5/18/2022 at 3:10 AM, Bryan and An said:

Good points, and thanks for looking up the articles. This incident occurred in 2019, so probably right around the time of the increased fines, as you mentioned. 

 

Here's my understanding of what happened from that time - keep in mind it's basically thirdhand information, from my wife, who got it from her mother, who pieced it together from talking to the ship's owner, the owner's wife, and the limited opportunities she had to talk to her husband (my FIL) while he was detained, imprisoned, or whatever. 

 

My understanding of why they were held so long instead of just paying the fine is that the ship's owner didn't want to pay a dime, and none of the fishermen had any money. The 2019 article you linked says the minimum fine per crewman would have been RM 100,000, which according to Google is almost $28,000. This was probably 2 years' salary for my FIL and the other crewmen, who wouldn't have had any money at all, as they weren't paid until after a fishing trip was completed, and they had already been on the waters 8 or 9 months at the time of the arrests. There were a few court proceedings during those 7 months, in which the ship owner had a Malay-speaking lawyer representing all of the fishermen (but as I was led to understand, probably more concerned with representing his own interests - not surprising, I suppose). None of the crew members had a clue what was said during any of the proceedings either by the court or by the attorney supposedly representing them, but simultaneously representing the ship's owner. 

 

It was also my understanding that the owner's main concern, aside from not having to pay any money (or pay as little as possible) was getting his seized ships back (there were 2 ships seized together with a total of 30ish crewmen, I believe). In the end, getting the men released was conditioned upon his own (the owner's) admission of fault or guilt and then paying the hefty fine. And in the end, I believe that is what happened - I'm not sure if it was a negotiation of sorts, or haggling, for 7 months, but this was my perception. I don't know much about the court system in Malaysia, or how on the up-and-up they are, but it didn't seem that strange to me that the men would be held for 7 months without an actual conviction when even in the USA, you can look at the famous case of Kalief Browder, who was imprisoned for years in one of the toughest prisons in New York without a trial before eventually killing himself. Also, the owner of the ships never set foot in Malaysia during these proceedings, so there was never any risk of him himself being detained in the matter. 

 

Again, that's all my understanding from three years ago, and maybe not all that important other than being as honest and detailed as we can on the form and hoping for the best. Regardless of what happens, I'm just glad we've been able to support my wife's family in her dad's retirement, as it was a tough, dangerous job. Just last year, her cousin was killed by pirates and his body just dumped in the ocean when the ship he was fishing on was hijacked and the remaining crew members held for ransom. Less than a year before her dad's arrest, another cousin died on a fishing ship under hazy circumstances, his body never recovered. Rough job, commercial fishing in Vietnam. 

 

I know this is an old thread, but did you have any issues sponsoring your FIL?

 

 

[Crazy Cat 41,836]

***Old topic locked***