Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,370]

2 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

It's been proposed (and I agree) that, what with the unauthorized release of the draft decision, the Supreme Court should accelerate their decision in this case before the radical elements have a chance to organize and commit destruction and mayhem.

You talking bout the clinic bombing right wing radicals or the screeching feminism Nazi non Binary purple hair crowd on the left.

Both groups scare me equally 

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,370]

2 hours ago, seekingthetruth said:

I just finished skimming through this thread.  Good discussion.  Wondering if any of you know this.

 

Do any states have or are proposing an extreme restriction on abortion?

It's almost like the old days at VJ before the purges 

[TBoneTX 45,288]

This, I think, is worth considering:

https://amgreatness.com/2022/05/05/roe-ruling-making-protest-lawful-again/

[Dashinka 24,494]

10 hours ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

We all pretty much agree except for some fine tuning,  which is amazing for any issue.

 

I just winder why this polarizing issue thar resonates with ditches on both sides came roaring into the fore front right now.

And yet, the Dems are signaling they want a law with no restrictions.  I believe Tim Ryan essentially said that in his position as a Senate candidate.  No one really knows where Joe stands, back in the day Old Joe wanted to ditch Roe and enact an abortion ban.

 

In the meantime, it is time to start attacking people's faiths.

 

Pro-abortion groups target churches for Mother's Day protests

 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pro-abortion-groups-target-churches-for-mothers-day-protests

[yuna628 9,676]

12 hours ago, seekingthetruth said:

I just finished skimming through this thread.  Good discussion.  Wondering if any of you know this.

 

Do any states have or are proposing an extreme restriction on abortion?

Yes there are. Some are using language that would prohibit birth control, would raise some very complicated questions for women that require IVF, D&C, and emergency removal of ectopic pregnancies. Some don't even want to consider rape or the life of the mother being in danger in any way. I know there are even further hard core voices that want to restrict hysterectomies! My mom doesn't support abortion, but even she thinks some of these measures are nuts. 

[seekingthetruth 1,246]

4 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

I know there are even further hard core voices that want to restrict hysterectomies! 

Source?  Googled but nothing related.

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,370]

26 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

Yes there are. Some are using language that would prohibit birth control, would raise some very complicated questions for women that require IVF, D&C, and emergency removal of ectopic pregnancies. Some don't even want to consider rape or the life of the mother being in danger in any way. I know there are even further hard core voices that want to restrict hysterectomies! My mom doesn't support abortion, but even she thinks some of these measures are nuts. 

Birth control should be in Pez dispensers at every street corner. A big part of our problem with crime is kids having kids in certain communities and them having no family structure, and many time having those kids so they can get "on the system"

[beloved_dingo 1,976]

24 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

Yes there are. Some are using language that would prohibit birth control, would raise some very complicated questions for women that require IVF, D&C, and emergency removal of ectopic pregnancies. Some don't even want to consider rape or the life of the mother being in danger in any way. I know there are even further hard core voices that want to restrict hysterectomies! My mom doesn't support abortion, but even she thinks some of these measures are nuts. 

It's almost like most 60 year old men don't actually understand women's bodies or women's healthcare needs.

 

I'm one of those people that take birth control to treat a medical condition. When it was first prescribed to me the only chance of me having a baby would've been through immaculate conception so it certainly wasn't to prevent pregnancy 😅

 

Also restricting hysterectomies is nothing new and not even "hard core". Just speak to any of the innumerable women who have been denied tubal ligation, oophorectomies/hysterectomies, and even IUDs because doctors start pearl-clutching any time a woman who is unmarried and under the age of 30 wants to explore these options. 

[Dashinka 24,494]

33 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

Yes there are. Some are using language that would prohibit birth control, would raise some very complicated questions for women that require IVF, D&C, and emergency removal of ectopic pregnancies. Some don't even want to consider rape or the life of the mother being in danger in any way. I know there are even further hard core voices that want to restrict hysterectomies! My mom doesn't support abortion, but even she thinks some of these measures are nuts. 

Some of this ideas are nuts.  Are these actual proposed legislation, or simply political rhetoric from some of the extremists? 

[Redro 4,611]

10 minutes ago, beloved_dingo said:

It's almost like most 60 year old men don't actually understand women's bodies or women's healthcare needs.

 

I'm one of those people that take birth control to treat a medical condition. When it was first prescribed to me the only chance of me having a baby would've been through immaculate conception so it certainly wasn't to prevent pregnancy 😅

 

Also restricting hysterectomies is nothing new and not even "hard core". Just speak to any of the innumerable women who have been denied tubal ligation, oophorectomies/hysterectomies, and even IUDs because doctors start pearl-clutching any time a woman who is unmarried and under the age of 30 wants to explore these options. 

Yep, it took me a few years to get on birth control for medical reasons! And I know numerous friends who were shamed for wanting birth control by their pharmacists and had to argue to have their script filled.

Getting my IUD wasn't easy and I had to visit a few doctors before they allowed me to have one (this was for heavy periods not birth control)... 

Men really don't know the hurdles women have to go through... and if anyone cares I've lived in two countries and know women from a bunch of different places. 

 

I've seen several memes online reminding us that birth control and Plan B doesn't work for women over a certain weight (and that weight varies depending on weight). 

 

I'm so tired of abortion being seen as a "far left/ far right" issue. It is first and foremost a women's health care issue. 

 

 

Edited May 6, 2022 by ROK2USA

[beloved_dingo 1,976]

Another aspect that I don't think is often talked about: Fertility treatments/IVF result in embryos that are destroyed/unused and often involve selective abortions when multiple fetuses develop from treatment. I am curious if those abortions are counted in the overall numbers when discussing abortion stats. And this is a circumstance where obviously a baby is wanted, but decisions have to be made if 3+ embryos end up developing. Do people against abortion feel the same way about this scenario than any other? 

 

Of course it is called "selective reduction" to make it more palatable but if someone believes that a typical abortion is murder, then this circumstance shouldn't be any different. 

Edited May 6, 2022 by beloved_dingo

[yuna628 9,676]

54 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

Birth control should be in Pez dispensers at every street corner. A big part of our problem with crime is kids having kids in certain communities and them having no family structure, and many time having those kids so they can get "on the system"

Well call me more conservative in this area, but I don't believe that they should be on every street corner. Many will advocate birth control being put over the counter, which may be a good idea. The problem is, as a woman that went through many different types of birth control in an attempt to treat a medical condition, it ended up not being the answer, in fact it made a host of other conditions crop up. Yes the bureaucratic stupidity of how women have to obtain birth control is ridiculous (I loathed it with every fiber of my being), but a doctor counseling what birth control might be appropriate for a woman (we all aren't the same), and utilizing tests to make sure nothing is going wrong is very helpful. With OTC a woman won't get that. But the less government is involved in our sex and personal lives the better.

51 minutes ago, beloved_dingo said:

It's almost like most 60 year old men don't actually understand women's bodies or women's healthcare needs.

 

I'm one of those people that take birth control to treat a medical condition. When it was first prescribed to me the only chance of me having a baby would've been through immaculate conception so it certainly wasn't to prevent pregnancy 😅

 

Also restricting hysterectomies is nothing new and not even "hard core". Just speak to any of the innumerable women who have been denied tubal ligation, oophorectomies/hysterectomies, and even IUDs because doctors start pearl-clutching any time a woman who is unmarried and under the age of 30 wants to explore these options. 

I don't think a lot of people, no matter their age understand women's bodies. There's a thread on twitter right now of some of the ridiculous things guys have come up with - it's really due to a lack of fundamental education in this area. Yeah, I wasn't taking birth control to prevent pregnancy, and that's what people don't understand. They also don't realize how hardcore some of these people want to take things. Unfortunately those people have got platforms and pull. It's worrisome. It's not the government's business when my period is, if i'm pregnant, what birth control I take, and if I choose to terminate a pregnancy for any reason - and that includes needing a D&C.

48 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

Some of this ideas are nuts.  Are these actual proposed legislation, or simply political rhetoric from some of the extremists? 

Louisiana would criminalize abortion as homicide from the point of fertilization. The language in the bill would criminalize birth control usage and IVF because it further defines 'personhood' and constitutional rights to the eggs even before implantation themselves. IVF would be murder. Birth control would be murder. If that is the case, then women murder potential persons every month, naturally. Would they define a man's sperm as having personhood? Could provide some issues for them in the future. The people working on this bill are not those that have understanding of science or the law. These are pastors and activists. They do not care if the person is abused, raped, or having a medical emergency. The bill would try to override the federal government, just in case SCOTUS doesn't overturn any provisions or congress changes anything. It would also impeach judges that would rule in a woman's favor. BTW, this would go strangely further than any definition of what constitutes 'personhood' Biblically or historically. There has been concerns that women that use period trackers would have that data sold and used for government intrusion in their lives. It has been done before. Are we going to prevent women from leaving a state? Are we going to prevent obtaining birth control via mail? Are we going to prevent a woman from having to cross state lines to simply get their birth control RX? Could a woman be arrested for having an abortion or taking birth control in another state if she then vacations in a state that outlaws them? How far are we going?

42 minutes ago, ROK2USA said:

Yep, it took me a few years to get on birth control for medical reasons! And I know numerous friends who were shamed for wanting birth control by their pharmacists and had to argue to have their script filled.

Getting my IUD wasn't easy and I had to visit a few doctors before they allowed me to have one (this was for heavy periods not birth control)... 

Men really don't know the hurdles women have to go through... and if anyone cares I've lived in two countries and know women from a bunch of different places. 

 

I've seen several memes online reminding us that birth control and Plan B doesn't work for women over a certain weight (and that weight varies depending on weight). 

 

I'm so tired of abortion being seen as a "far left/ far right" issue. It is first and foremost a women's health care issue. 

 

 

Yep. I had a pharmacist that deliberately tried to prevent giving out birth control. And yes, Plan B will not work properly for women that weigh over a certain amount, but that doesn't matter, because they would like to outlaw that too. Remember if our eggs and sperm are persons with constitutional rights, then activists will view anything that prevents things from happening are a no go. The activists and pastors pushing these types of legislation that simply have not got a clue and do not care. They are the persons that used to be out there wanting people to blow up clinics. What they want for your bodies, is their choice. It is going beyond late term abortions. That is not the goal at all.

40 minutes ago, beloved_dingo said:

Another aspect that I don't think is often talked about: Fertility treatments/IVF result in embryos that are destroyed/unused and often involve selective abortions when multiple fetuses develop from treatment. I am curious if those abortions are counted in the overall numbers when discussing abortion stats. And this is a circumstance where obviously a baby is wanted, but decisions have to be made if 3+ embryos end up developing. Do people against abortion feel the same way about this scenario than any other? 

 

Of course it is called "selective reduction" to make it more palatable but if someone believes that a typical abortion is murder, then this circumstance shouldn't be any different. 

Those in activist circles that are hard core and are coming up with the language in some of these bills and holding rallies certainly do feel this way about IVF.

Edited May 6, 2022 by yuna628

[Redro 4,611]

18 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

Well call me more conservative in this area, but I don't believe that they should be on every street corner. Many will advocate birth control being put over the counter, which may be a good idea. The problem is, as a woman that went through many different types of birth control in an attempt to treat a medical condition, it ended up not being the answer, in fact it made a host of other conditions crop up. Yes the bureaucratic stupidity of how women have to obtain birth control is ridiculous (I loathed it with every fiber of my being), but a doctor counseling what birth control might be appropriate for a woman (we all aren't the same), and utilizing tests to make sure nothing is going wrong is very helpful. With OTC a woman won't get that. But the less government is involved in our sex and personal lives the better.

 

As much as I love being able to access the pill over the counter in Korea... it really did mess up my biology so I 100% agree with this sentiment. 

I needed to go to a doctor to find the correct birth control without finding out the pill I was on totally messed up my cycle for several months... 

Birth control is serious business, and I needed to cycle through several types before I found the one that worked for me and when I spoke to a doctor the process was super easier.. as opposed to trying to figure out alone how the new pill was different to the pill I took before. 

I tried two IUDs and of course the second was better... but needed a doctor for them. 

The pill is not always the answer. 

 

ETA: Listen to the women, men. You might think we are silly when it comes to birth control but the majority of women are cycling through several options and sometimes fall pregnant even though they tried to prevent an unplanned pregnancy. 

Edited May 6, 2022 by ROK2USA

[yuna628 9,676]

14 minutes ago, ROK2USA said:

As much as I love being able to access the pill over the counter in Korea... it really did mess up my biology so I 100% agree with this sentiment. 

I needed to go to a doctor to find the correct birth control without finding out the pill I was on totally messed up my cycle for several months... 

Birth control is serious business, and I needed to cycle through several types before I found the one that worked for me and when I spoke to a doctor the process was super easy... as opposed to trying to figure out alone how the new pill was different to the pill I took before. 

It got to the point after going through biopsies, surgery, ER trips due to severe side effects, and numerous birth control methods, not only were they not working but I ended up having constant blood loss and anemia. At this point they offered an IUD as my last hope or a hysterectomy. Thankfully I found an endocrinologist that realized I needed a different solution. Doctors really are very helpful, but we aren't cookie cutter ladies, nor are certain conditions all the same, sometimes the pill isn't the solution, or a different one is needed. But what hope will women that need the pill or an IUD as a solution to their medical issues have in states that now seek to ban them as "murder"?

Edited May 6, 2022 by yuna628

[Redro 4,611]

12 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

It got to the point after going through biopsies, surgery, ER trips due to severe side effects, and numerous birth control methods, not only were they not working but I ended up having constant blood loss and anemia. At this point they offered an IUD as my last hope or a hysterectomy. Thankfully I found an endocrinologist that realized I needed a different solution. Doctors really are very helpful, but we aren't cookie cutter ladies, nor are certain conditions all the same, sometimes the pill isn't the solution, or a different one is needed. But what hope will women that need the pill or an IUD as a solution to their medical issues have in states that now seek to ban them as "murder"?

You're preaching to the choir 😉

Just chatting in this thread as some posters think some women like to use an abortion as their only birth control/ family planning... 😐

When the truth is a lot more complicated. 

Abortion = women's health care. 

The reasons for ending a pregnancy are numerous. And the reasons for ending a pregnancy should be discussed with a doctor. Not dictated by law. 

Edited May 6, 2022 by ROK2USA