Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows

[Ban Hammer 13,513]

[Boiler 46,043]

16 minutes ago, ROK2USA said:

I am pro choice... I cannot dictate what other women do... I don't exclude any situations but my personal experience tells me late term abortions aren't something a woman decides on a whim. It is generally informed by a medical issue. If someone has an abortion at 8 months cos they just didnt want a baby not my circus and not my monkey! But, they're not having an abortion at 8 months they're going into labour and the baby will most likely be a still birth. 

The question is not about who you know or what they might do it is about what the Law allows, there are absolutists but my impression when pushed is most people are somewhere in between 

 

Which is why it is so complicated 

[Dashinka 24,770]

9 minutes ago, Ban Hammer said:

My body, my choice except for the jab.

[Boiler 46,043]

I have issues with this

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,378]

and I get ads for baby clothes

[beloved_dingo 1,983]

Regardless of how any individual person feels about abortion, I just can't fathom how the choice to abort should be anyone's business other than the person who is pregnant and their physician. All this debate about whether it should be allowed at the federal level or the state level, or how it's about state's rights/sovereignty...Ridiculous. Abortion is part of women's healthcare. Should a state be allowed to require people to donate blood? Or require that you have to donate a kidney if you are a match to someone needing a kidney? Should a state be able to require every person to be an organ donor? If not, then they shouldn't be able to force women to give birth or continue risky pregnancies. Bodily autonomy should be paramount.

 

Not to mention the fact that most abortions occur prior to 12 weeks and/or because it is MEDICALLY NECESSARY anyway. 

 

Edited May 4, 2022 by beloved_dingo

[Boiler 46,043]

1 hour ago, beloved_dingo said:

Regardless of how any individual person feels about abortion, I just can't fathom how the choice to abort should be anyone's business other than the person who is pregnant and their physician. All this debate about whether it should be allowed at the federal level or the state level, or how it's about state's rights/sovereignty...Ridiculous. Abortion is part of women's healthcare. Should a state be allowed to require people to donate blood? Or require that you have to donate a kidney if you are a match to someone needing a kidney? Should a state be able to require every person to be an organ donor? If not, then they shouldn't be able to force women to give birth or continue risky pregnancies. Bodily autonomy should be paramount.

 

Not to mention the fact that most abortions occur prior to 12 weeks and/or because it is MEDICALLY NECESSARY anyway. 

 

It seems only 7 States including mine have such regulations 

 

Even California does not

 

I know the UK has restrictions and I think all the EU countries do

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,378]

1 hour ago, beloved_dingo said:

Regardless of how any individual person feels about abortion, I just can't fathom how the choice to abort should be anyone's business other than the person who is pregnant and their physician. All this debate about whether it should be allowed at the federal level or the state level, or how it's about state's rights/sovereignty...Ridiculous. Abortion is part of women's healthcare. Should a state be allowed to require people to donate blood? Or require that you have to donate a kidney if you are a match to someone needing a kidney? Should a state be able to require every person to be an organ donor? If not, then they shouldn't be able to force women to give birth or continue risky pregnancies. Bodily autonomy should be paramount.

 

Not to mention the fact that most abortions occur prior to 12 weeks and/or because it is MEDICALLY NECESSARY anyway. 

 

Should a woman at 8 months decide she does not want it and for  that reason only abort?  If I attack the mother and the baby dies I am charged with murder. I agree with you 100% but when you start getting into totally viable fetus it gets a bit murky. Other than for health reasons of baby or mother. 

 

Side note. I read an article from one of the left media outlets. I swear to god.  "Abortion restrictions disproportionately  affect young females". Yes that was actually said. Of course in this age of men can get pregnant stupidity, some may think that is not obvious 

[Boiler 46,043]

13 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

Should a woman at 8 months decide she does not want it and for  that reason only abort?  If I attack the mother and the baby dies I am charged with murder. I agree with you 100% but when you start getting into totally viable fetus it gets a bit murky. Other than for health reasons of baby or mother. 

 

Side note. I read an article from one of the left media outlets. I swear to god.  "Abortion restrictions disproportionately  affect young females". Yes that was actually said. Of course in this age of men can get pregnant stupidity, some may think that is not obvious 

Surprised they would make such an obviously transphobic statement.

Edited May 4, 2022 by Boiler

[laylalex 7,300]

I've posted before about my experiences so I won't go into detail. I have had a termination and also a miscarriage. The miscarriage was deeply traumatic for my ex and me -- we wanted this child very badly. I rarely think about my termination, except during times when abortion comes back into public discussion. It was the right choice for me at a very difficult point in my life, and I would make it again. I've been able to live the kind of life I wanted to live and eventually I came to the conclusion that while I love being a stepmother, bearing a child isn't for me. I would have loved my longed-for baby if it had come to term, I have no doubt. But going through the pain of losing a child and then the physical aftermath... I could never go through with a pregnancy. I thought on this a lot, and talked about it with my husband a lot before I remarried. This was our choice that we came to together.

 

But as a middle-class woman who lives in California, I will always have this choice until the end of my reproductive years unless some federal ban is put in place. Same for most of my female friends here. From my understanding, the restrictions in the UK are not very onerous, and far less than those in US states, and my friends over there will also face few issues if they need to (and some of them have). We're privileged by our class and location. Why should we have greater rights to dictate how our lives are to play out than other women do?

 

Abortion is healthcare, and family planning is up to families to decide, not the government. It will not stop here either with abortion. There is good reason to believe gay marriage is up on the block next, followed by contraception.

 

As @ROK2USA said in this thread, women who elect to have late terminations -- an unbelievably small percentage -- are not doing so because they don't like being pregnant and want it all to go away. You want that baby, but then something has gone very, very wrong. Your life is in danger, or the baby has died or its existence is "incompatible with life." It's heartbreaking for the families involved. 

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,378]

1 hour ago, laylalex said:

I've posted before about my experiences so I won't go into detail. I have had a termination and also a miscarriage. The miscarriage was deeply traumatic for my ex and me -- we wanted this child very badly. I rarely think about my termination, except during times when abortion comes back into public discussion. It was the right choice for me at a very difficult point in my life, and I would make it again. I've been able to live the kind of life I wanted to live and eventually I came to the conclusion that while I love being a stepmother, bearing a child isn't for me. I would have loved my longed-for baby if it had come to term, I have no doubt. But going through the pain of losing a child and then the physical aftermath... I could never go through with a pregnancy. I thought on this a lot, and talked about it with my husband a lot before I remarried. This was our choice that we came to together.

 

But as a middle-class woman who lives in California, I will always have this choice until the end of my reproductive years unless some federal ban is put in place. Same for most of my female friends here. From my understanding, the restrictions in the UK are not very onerous, and far less than those in US states, and my friends over there will also face few issues if they need to (and some of them have). We're privileged by our class and location. Why should we have greater rights to dictate how our lives are to play out than other women do?

 

Abortion is healthcare, and family planning is up to families to decide, not the government. It will not stop here either with abortion. There is good reason to believe gay marriage is up on the block next, followed by contraception.

 

As @ROK2USA said in this thread, women who elect to have late terminations -- an unbelievably small percentage -- are not doing so because they don't like being pregnant and want it all to go away. You want that baby, but then something has gone very, very wrong. Your life is in danger, or the baby has died or its existence is "incompatible with life." It's heartbreaking for the families involved. 

Thanks for sharing.  Of course late term should be ok for the reason you stated,  but I will never agree it should be ok just cuz.

[LIBrty4all 3,754]

 

[laylalex 7,300]

2 hours ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

Thanks for sharing.  Of course late term should be ok for the reason you stated,  but I will never agree it should be ok just cuz.

I agree with you on that. I think that after a certain point where the fetus is viable there should be more questions asked. The Casey case seemed to be reasonable to me in setting a limit. Sometimes the answers will support termination -- a traumatized child hiding a pregnancy, for example, or a rape victim who takes time to come to grips with what is happening to her. Rarely it will be "because I said so." I have close friends who take that point of view, but even then I think none of them support termination past the second trimester unless there's something medically wrong. The problem is that there are always exceptions to a hard and fast rule, so the circumstances should always be considered. Compounding trauma (rape, incest, the threat of intimate partner violence, the health of the mother) with forcing someone to carry to term against their will is just sick to me. 

 

I respect other people's belief that abortion is a sin, or a moral wrong. I do not agree, but I do not have to agree. Those people can choose not to have terminations. But to force someone else's morality into a private health decision between me and my doctor is -- to me -- really anti-American and pro-authoritarian, and forces my body to "agree" with their beliefs. My beliefs are just as sincerely held. 

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,378]

12 minutes ago, laylalex said:

I agree with you on that. I think that after a certain point where the fetus is viable there should be more questions asked. The Casey case seemed to be reasonable to me in setting a limit. Sometimes the answers will support termination -- a traumatized child hiding a pregnancy, for example, or a rape victim who takes time to come to grips with what is happening to her. Rarely it will be "because I said so." I have close friends who take that point of view, but even then I think none of them support termination past the second trimester unless there's something medically wrong. The problem is that there are always exceptions to a hard and fast rule, so the circumstances should always be considered. Compounding trauma (rape, incest, the threat of intimate partner violence, the health of the mother) with forcing someone to carry to term against their will is just sick to me. 

 

I respect other people's belief that abortion is a sin, or a moral wrong. I do not agree, but I do not have to agree. Those people can choose not to have terminations. But to force someone else's morality into a private health decision between me and my doctor is -- to me -- really anti-American and pro-authoritarian, and forces my body to "agree" with their beliefs. My beliefs are just as sincerely held. 

And I think the majority of Americans agree with you generally,  albeit some fine tuning on the viable fetues part.

[Dashinka 24,770]

9 hours ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

And I think the majority of Americans agree with you generally,  albeit some fine tuning on the viable fetues part.

The big question is should the Supreme Court or for that matter elected representatives be the ones to set a viability standard?  Shouldn't this be between the Dr. and the woman?