Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows

[yuna628 9,697]

1 hour ago, Dashinka said:

So you are saying there is indoctrination (only on one side I assume) going on to be a pro-life advocate?  That is a laugh given the state of our public and private school system today. That being said I seem to be seeing a lot of radicals doing things this last weekend that were not pro-life.  I really expect some Bernie Bro., or Warren acolyte to take a pot-shot at a Justice in the near future to give Senile Joe another appointment.  People believe what they do, and if a state closes its borders (somehow), it will be dealt with.  As you well know, the leaked opinion did nothing to outlaw abortion, and if folks like you want abortion without exception, then you need to vote in the people that will give that to you, as that is where it belongs (e.g. Europe). Otherwise, people often vote with their feet unless you are saying we will have a completely closed state like the DPRK with that state sending out law enforcement to round up defectors from said state.

 

 

What do you think is the point of church based schools, homeschools, and church/law based schools marketed by televangelists? I came out of this stuff, I've been there. Train up your child to be the next great activist warrior to transform America to whatever vision of god you want. Imagine if you will, a state went this prohibitive with all sorts of things.. afterall lots of people couldn't handle masks and covid regulations. With new regulations of guns we often get rhetoric that it will foment a near-rebellion. How about with alcohol again? How about men's bodies become regulated in the same way? Will you protest that sperm are not persons with Constitutional rights that supersede your own? Are you mad about people protesting outside of a judge's house? I suppose it is very rude, but SCOTUS had no problem ruling about the right of extremely obnoxious protesters to heckle people outside of funerals. Have you forgotten the days when doctors and clinics would be poisoned and blown up? The times when women are still heckled and abused outside of clinics? The women that die because the only hospital to provide them medical care is 'anti-abortion'? Do you think that the people that are willing to take these measures against a clinic, or the people that define eggs as persons, or wish to ban all birth control, will only be satisfied within their own state borders? That's certainly not what they are saying. I tend to watch what people say and do - what they have been saying and doing for years. Have I said that I support abortion without exception? Don't think so, and we've had lots of threads about the subject over the years. 

 

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,378]

Ever notice how right at election time we have some explosive issue that prompts massive civil unrest. Remember the alleged unjustified shooting of a black man in Atlanta during the last election. Video showed the police were extremely professional and the problem only started when  they went to put cuffs on him and he attacked and grabbed the Taser.  Yet the cops were reinstated and the issue is not even being talked about. Yet several blacks were killed during the ensuing riots and millions of dollars worth of property destroyed. Yawn not an issue anymore. 

 

Much like the BLM protests, The Russian collusion etc, will we find out later the media operatives blew this way out of proportion. 

 

Now the left wing democratic part operatives are reporting Right wingers in the Supreme court leaked it, without one shred of evidence. 

 

I doubt if this were not an election year we would have never heard of  this issue.

[TBoneTX 45,871]

3 hours ago, yuna628 said:

I recall there being checkpoints and needing to have documents just in case of being stopped.

"Your papers, Comrade!"

3 hours ago, yuna628 said:

If one state has defined all abortion as murder (even the simple use of birth control) then a state will certainly be determined to stop anyone from doing it.

I'm struggling to envision how.  For example (?):

   Cop at inbound checkpoint (restrictive state):  What was your business out-of-state?

   Traveler:  Thanks for your interest, but I don't have to tell you.  Am I free to go?

   Cop:  What was your business out-of-state?

   Traveler:  Officer, I wish to leave; are you detaining me, or am I free to go?

 

   Cop at outbound checkpoint (restrictive state):  Are you leaving to get an abortion?

   Traveler:  Do you ask this of everyone, or are you discriminating against young cisgender women?

[Dashinka 24,717]

2 hours ago, yuna628 said:

What do you think is the point of church based schools, homeschools, and church/law based schools marketed by televangelists? I came out of this stuff, I've been there. Train up your child to be the next great activist warrior to transform America to whatever vision of god you want. Imagine if you will, a state went this prohibitive with all sorts of things.. afterall lots of people couldn't handle masks and covid regulations. With new regulations of guns we often get rhetoric that it will foment a near-rebellion. How about with alcohol again? How about men's bodies become regulated in the same way? Will you protest that sperm are not persons with Constitutional rights that supersede your own? Are you mad about people protesting outside of a judge's house? I suppose it is very rude, but SCOTUS had no problem ruling about the right of extremely obnoxious protesters to heckle people outside of funerals. Have you forgotten the days when doctors and clinics would be poisoned and blown up? The times when women are still heckled and abused outside of clinics? The women that die because the only hospital to provide them medical care is 'anti-abortion'? Do you think that the people that are willing to take these measures against a clinic, or the people that define eggs as persons, or wish to ban all birth control, will only be satisfied within their own state borders? That's certainly not what they are saying. I tend to watch what people say and do - what they have been saying and doing for years. Have I said that I support abortion without exception? Don't think so, and we've had lots of threads about the subject over the years. 

 

Have you forgotten we have a right to practice our own religion here in the US.  It really sounds like you wish to be ruled by the minority here (~12% favor unrestricted abortions through the entire pregnancy).  You gave us the Louisiana proposal, which I agree is too far, but it still hasn't passed, where are the other "sky-is-falling" proposals?  You also mentioned that the state/feds should force providers to do something that is against their religion, so for the states that are unrestricted, will they or should they prosecute a Dr. for not performing an abortion?  I am still waiting as to how a state in the US would close their borders to another state.  How would a state determine if someone traveled to another state for an abortion?  It would take a huge increase in law enforcement to guard all land, water and air entry points, and most of these states cannot find enough police to do their current jobs.  There is also little money in most states to pay for this increase in border guards.

 

You may not have said you are in favor of unrestricted abortion, but it certainly sounds like that is what is being advocated for.  The Senate Bill that will be voted on this week essentially allows for unrestricted abortions with some undefined viability standard which is what was so wrong with Roe.  It does mention "health of the mother" after this undefined viability, but in my reading, this is easy to get around when mental health is claimed.  Personally I could not care less, maybe the GOPers should vote for it and take credit for the passage.  I am worried that what is coming from the highly divisive rhetoric coming from the Dems/Left is going to make January 6th look like a lawn party, but I suppose that is fine with some given the importance of this issue as we are told.  Btw, peaceful protesting is just fine, but even if peacefully protesting at someone's personal residence involving their family, it is certainly in very poor taste and quite frankly turns me and I suppose many others off to these protester's cause.

Edited May 9, 2022 by Dashinka

[Boiler 45,921]

I attended a Church school, if they did have such teaching I must have missed that class, now that is not to say it does not happen somewhere.

For those near Mexico abortion is free and $400 in Canada

 

i can not imagine there will not be plenty of organizations happy to help cover the costs

Edited May 9, 2022 by Boiler

[yuna628 9,697]

13 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

Have you forgotten we have a right to practice our own religion here in the US.  It really sounds like you wish to be ruled by the minority here (~12% favor unrestricted abortions through the entire pregnancy).  You gave us the Louisiana proposal, which I agree is too far, but it still hasn't passed, where are the other "sky-is-falling" proposals?  You also mentioned that the state/feds should force providers to do something that is against their religion, so for the states that are unrestricted, will they or should they prosecute a Dr. for not performing an abortion?  I am still waiting as to how a state in the US would close their borders to another state.  How would a state determine if someone traveled to another state for an abortion?  It would take a huge increase in law enforcement to guard all land, water and air entry points, and most of these states cannot find enough police to do their current jobs.  There is also little money in most states to pay for this increase in border guards.

 

You may not have said you are in favor of unrestricted abortion, but it certainly sounds like that is what is being advocated for.  The Senate Bill that will be voted on this week essentially allows for unrestricted abortions with some undefined viability standard which is what was so wrong with Roe.  It does mention "health of the mother" after this undefined viability, but in my reading, this is easy to get around when mental health is claimed.  Personally I could not care less, maybe the GOPers should vote for it and take credit for the passage.  I am worried that what is coming from the highly divisive rhetoric coming from the Dems/Left is going to make January 6th look like a lawn party, but I suppose that is fine with some given the importance of this issue as we are told.  Btw, peaceful protesting is just fine, but even if peacefully protesting at someone's personal residence involving their family, it is certainly in very poor taste and quite frankly turns me and I suppose many others off to these protester's cause.

Never said that I forgot any such thing, nor has anything I said implied it. Nor have I stated any such thing about abortion either or implied it. If you don't really care about this issue, then why does it sound like you do? SCOTUS also previously found that protesting outside the homes of abortion clinic providers is perfectly fine as well. As a result, individuals have done so for years.

 

Ways to stop someone? What has already been proposed in many states already. Suing anyone who goes over the state lines to do and suing anyone that 'helps' someone cross a state line to do so. If a child has been raped and pregnant by her father, and her mother takes her out of state for an abortion, will the mother be arrested by the state or sued by the rapist? Rep. Coleman from Missouri thought that the suing method was perfectly acceptable. Because, as she believes if an egg has personhood and is a person of that state unable to 'speak for themselves', then the state has the right to stop a woman from obtaining an abortion, arresting, or suing her for 'harm' to that said egg or fetus. I'm not even about to get into the historical context and fallacies of such thinking. Other ways? If masks and COVID measures in many states could prove - a state can compel an individual to do any number of things, which did include travel. Papers please, indeed. I know you cannot see it at the moment, but there is plenty of Constitutional scholars and historical precedent that see the writing on the wall. I imagine it would become a constant battle.

17 minutes ago, Boiler said:

I attended a Church school, if they did have such teaching I must have missed that class, now that is not to say it does not happen somewhere.

For those near Mexico abortion is free and $400 in Canada

 

i can not imagine there will not be plenty of organizations happy to help cover the costs

Yes it does happen, somewhere.

[beloved_dingo 1,981]

I went to a Christian high school and one moment that always stood out to me is how the administration bragged that the Anatomy class was a college-level course, with a college-level textbook....but we skipped the chapters on the Reproductive system. Gotta love it. 

 

Other fun anecdotes:

1. No student or teacher could reference Santa Claus at Christmas time or the Easter bunny during Easter. Anything related to Halloween whatsoever also was not allowed. 
2. One of my friends was sent home to change her shirt with a peace sign on it because "it represents a broken cross". 
3. Students would get in trouble for hugging friends of the opposite sex, and we weren't allowed to sit next to the opposite sex on field trips or on the school bus. 
4. We weren't allowed to have bibles that weren't KJV. 
5. In one of my science classes, we had to watch videos "debunking" evolution and learn the theories about the Earth being ~6000 years old. 
6. A kid in my art class got in trouble for drawing aliens. 
7. One day, I wore a brand new floor length skirt, and a teacher stapled the slit together so you couldn't see my knee.
8. Our principle cautioned against reading the Harry Potter books, even though he had read them all himself (except the last, which hadn't been released yet). 

I'm just saying...there's definitely some odd things that occur in religious schools. I was religious and heavily into church while I was in high school and my Christian school contributed to me losing my faith so kind of the opposite affect super religious conservative parents are going for when they send their kids somewhere like that. 

 

I don't recall abortion ever being mentioned because literally anything that had to do with sex was avoided. Only abstinence was ever discussed (and pushed on us). 

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,378]

Even Most Republicans Don’t Want Congress To Ban Abortion Nationwide, Poll Finds

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2022/05/09/even-most-republicans-dont-want-congress-to-ban-abortion-nationwide-poll-finds/

[Dashinka 24,717]

30 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

Even Most Republicans Don’t Want Congress To Ban Abortion Nationwide, Poll Finds

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2022/05/09/even-most-republicans-dont-want-congress-to-ban-abortion-nationwide-poll-finds/

I think both sides of Congress are simply playing up the rhetoric for their respective bases and for donations.  No one in Congress wants to actually do anything.

2 hours ago, yuna628 said:

Never said that I forgot any such thing, nor has anything I said implied it. Nor have I stated any such thing about abortion either or implied it. If you don't really care about this issue, then why does it sound like you do? SCOTUS also previously found that protesting outside the homes of abortion clinic providers is perfectly fine as well. As a result, individuals have done so for years.

 

Ways to stop someone? What has already been proposed in many states already. Suing anyone who goes over the state lines to do and suing anyone that 'helps' someone cross a state line to do so. If a child has been raped and pregnant by her father, and her mother takes her out of state for an abortion, will the mother be arrested by the state or sued by the rapist? Rep. Coleman from Missouri thought that the suing method was perfectly acceptable. Because, as she believes if an egg has personhood and is a person of that state unable to 'speak for themselves', then the state has the right to stop a woman from obtaining an abortion, arresting, or suing her for 'harm' to that said egg or fetus. I'm not even about to get into the historical context and fallacies of such thinking. Other ways? If masks and COVID measures in many states could prove - a state can compel an individual to do any number of things, which did include travel. Papers please, indeed. I know you cannot see it at the moment, but there is plenty of Constitutional scholars and historical precedent that see the writing on the wall. I imagine it would become a constant battle.

Yes it does happen, somewhere.

I agree, my body my choice, and that should apply to everything.

[Fuerteventura 29]

5 hours ago, Boiler said:

I attended a Church school, if they did have such teaching I must have missed that class, now that is not to say it does not happen somewhere.

For those near Mexico abortion is free and $400 in Canada

 

i can not imagine there will not be plenty of organizations happy to help cover the costs

Good idea, if we cannot get our act together to deliver health care in the US, let's put them on the same bus Seniors take to get reasonable  pricing on insulin and make a whole excursion package out of it. Throw in a hotel night  or two and a swing by the casino and it might even be marketed as a three day get away. 🤔  

 

Or we could just get real about protecting women's health. 

[Boiler 45,921]

2 hours ago, Fuerteventura said:

Good idea, if we cannot get our act together to deliver health care in the US, let's put them on the same bus Seniors take to get reasonable  pricing on insulin and make a whole excursion package out of it. Throw in a hotel night  or two and a swing by the casino and it might even be marketed as a three day get away. 🤔  

 

Or we could just get real about protecting women's health. 

I have met people who have moved to Mexico for retirement and know quite a few who go down there for Medical treatment, particularlydentistryy.

 

US does seem to like retirement areas and would seem more logical to build them where the costs are much lower.

[TBoneTX 45,871]

1 hour ago, Boiler said:

I have met people who have moved to Mexico for retirement and know quite a few who go down there for Medical treatment, particularlydentistry

^^ This.

The medical treatment is available chiefly in the bigger cities.

Dentistry is more widely available, and it's far easier to get an appointment than in the U.S.

 

All but the very newest "prescription" medicines here are available over-the-counter in Mexico, usually FAR more cheaply.  Pseudoephedrine products are banned, and narcotics (such as Tylenol III) can't be brought back to the U.S.

[Fuerteventura 29]

1 hour ago, Boiler said:

I have met people who have moved to Mexico for retirement and know quite a few who go down there for Medical treatment, particularlydentistryy.

 

US does seem to like retirement areas and would seem more logical to build them where the costs are much lower.

Fine, retirees can travel, that is their choice. I don't want the government telling me I can only get medical treatment in another state, or another  country. 

[Redro 4,611]

I think the focus on abortion and only abortion clouds the issue a little. 

Everyone is focussing on what is being lost (a woman's right to choose/ the potential child's life). 

 

The focus should be on women's health care (family planning). 

In my mind that means. 

Access to birth control.

Access to affordable medical care during pregnancy (whatever that means for the women in question). 

Paid maternity and paternity leave during the first year of a child's life.

Free! (I'll settle for subsidized) day care before elementary school.

 

Let's create an environment that nurtures children and their families. 

 

 

 

Edited May 10, 2022 by ROK2USA

[Redro 4,611]

1 hour ago, Boiler said:

I have met people who have moved to Mexico for retirement and know quite a few who go down there for Medical treatment, particularlydentistryy.

 

US does seem to like retirement areas and would seem more logical to build them where the costs are much lower.

 

 

11 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

"Your papers, Comrade!"

I'm struggling to envision how.  For example (?):

   Cop at inbound checkpoint (restrictive state):  What was your business out-of-state?

   Traveler:  Thanks for your interest, but I don't have to tell you.  Am I free to go?

   Cop:  What was your business out-of-state?

   Traveler:  Officer, I wish to leave; are you detaining me, or am I free to go?

 

   Cop at outbound checkpoint (restrictive state):  Are you leaving to get an abortion?

   Traveler:  Do you ask this of everyone, or are you discriminating against young cisgender women?

Do you really think it is so easy for women to take several days off to fly to Mexico or Canada or another state for a procedure?

You are aware women are asked if they've ever been pregnant when they go to the doctor, right?

Are women in states with restrictive abortion rights now supposed to lie about their medical history?

"Yep, I was pregnant. Oh, the pregnancy ended but I can't show you any documentation surrounding the event.... "