Our interview and 221(g)

[Charlie Brown 302 22]

My fiance had her interview today . All the groups that were going in, were out in almost two hours to the minute.

 

She was denied because she had no CENOMAR even though she was married in the Philippines and then was divorced in Korea.

 

Unfortunately, she is unable to return to Korea to get an official certificate of divorce, overstay of visa..ugh, all we have (had, officer in the embassy took the original we had even though we had copies in our 129f packet) is a certified certificate of marriage relation of from her former husband.

 

We have an appointment with the PSA and we are going to request those documents, the CENOMAR, and then send them in with her passport and see what happens.

 

Everything else went well. After talking to the first person, that reviewed the paperwork, the second person ask 5 questions, and she was done.

 

And.... No, the petitioner is not allowed inside.

[Rocio0010 5,579]

Maybe @Adventine can chime in...

[Carpe Vinum 2,327]

2 hours ago, Charlie Brown 302 said:

My fiance had her interview today . All the groups that were going in, were out in almost two hours to the minute.

 

She was denied because she had no CENOMAR even though she was married in the Philippines and then was divorced in Korea.

 

Unfortunately, she is unable to return to Korea to get an official certificate of divorce, overstay of visa..ugh, all we have (had, officer in the embassy took the original we had even though we had copies in our 129f packet) is a certified certificate of marriage relation of from her former husband.

 

We have an appointment with the PSA and we are going to request those documents, the CENOMAR, and then send them in with her passport and see what happens.

 

Everything else went well. After talking to the first person, that reviewed the paperwork, the second person ask 5 questions, and she was done.

 

And.... No, the petitioner is not allowed inside.

That's the best you are probably going to be able to do if you can't get the divorce documents. Others will chime in but won't the docs from PSA just say she is married? That won't be helpful.

 

I am sorry to hear you couldn't go in with her. I was able to go in and was able to hear everything that was asked to the other couples. I learned a lot that day.

 

I wish you the best of luck...

[Adventine 3,196]

It's a shame but yeah, the CENOMAR is a basic requirement. If a Filipino fiance or spouse can't present it, it's a hard stop for the visa process.

 

From what I understood of OP's situation, the issue is, even if they request the CENOMAR now, it's actually going to show that she is still married to someone else and will not have an annotation that she is already divorced. I believe she has to go through a Foreign Recognition of Divorce to get that updated CENOMAR. I don't know the full process. Only that it takes time and money. 

 

If she wasn't able to return to South Korea to get the official divorce certificate, couldn't she have asked someone else to process it on her behalf? Some people use agencies to get their police certificates from other countries. Maybe that will be an option.

Edited April 28, 2022 by Adventine

[Charlie Brown 302 22]

1 hour ago, Adventine said:

It's a shame but yeah, the CENOMAR is a basic requirement. If a Filipino fiance or spouse can't present it, it's a hard stop for the visa process.

 

From what I understood of OP's situation, the issue is, even if they request the CENOMAR now, it's actually going to show that she is still married to someone else and will not have an annotation that she is already divorced. I believe she has to go through a Foreign Recognition of Divorce to get that updated CENOMAR. I don't know the full process. Only that it takes time and money. 

 

If she wasn't able to return to South Korea to get the official divorce certificate, couldn't she have asked someone else to process it on her behalf? Some people use agencies to get their police certificates from other countries. Maybe that will be an option.

We asked her ex for help, no such luck.

 

Then we finally got in touch with the Court where the divorce was recorded, they told us that only her or the ex can come in to request. Not even someone with a power of attorney.

 

Thinking about it some more, we do not really know how we could get married in another country to file as a C-1(?), without that CENOMAR.

 

Thanks for the suggestions.

 

 

[Chancy 6,241]

4 hours ago, Adventine said:

I believe she has to go through a Foreign Recognition of Divorce to get that updated CENOMAR.

 

Assuming OP's fiancee's ex-husband is Korean, the US embassy does not require recognition of foreign divorce in the Philippines.  What USEM requires is the original record of divorce from Korea.

 

CENOMAR or CEMAR (Advisory of Marriage) is a basic requirement for all Filipino adult applicants.  But it is not an issue if what's on the CENOMAR/CEMAR does not match the applicant's current marital status, as long as they can present a legal document proving their actual marital status.  In my case, I interviewed for spouse visa, yet I presented a CENOMAR showing no record of marriage in the PH.  USEM did not care because I presented my US marriage certificate, along with my PSA CENOMAR.

 

@Charlie Brown 302, is your fiancee's ex Korean?  And does your fiancee's Korean certificate of marriage relation state that she is already divorced from her ex?  That's what she needs to present, along with her PSA CEMAR.

 

[RO_AH 1,659]

3 hours ago, Charlie Brown 302 said:

Thinking about it some more, we do not really know how we could get married in another country to file as a C-1(?), without that CENOMAR.

You can do an online wedding in Utah and file a CR-1. I'm not sure what problems you may have regarding the CENOMAR. I know we had to provide one for my wife during the process.

[RO_AH 1,659]

@Chancy is correct, whatever visa you get you will need to show proof of the end of relationship.

[Adventine 3,196]

36 minutes ago, Chancy said:

 

Assuming OP's fiancee's ex-husband is Korean, the US embassy does not require recognition of foreign divorce in the Philippines.  What USEM requires is the original record of divorce from Korea.

 

CENOMAR or CEMAR (Advisory of Marriage) is a basic requirement for all Filipino adult applicants.  But it is not an issue if what's on the CENOMAR/CEMAR does not match the applicant's current marital status, as long as they can present a legal document proving their actual marital status.  In my case, I interviewed for spouse visa, yet I presented a CENOMAR showing no record of marriage in the PH.  USEM did not care because I presented my US marriage certificate, along with my PSA CENOMAR.

 

@Charlie Brown 302, is your fiancee's ex Korean?  And does your fiancee's Korean certificate of marriage relation state that she is already divorced from her ex?  That's what she needs to present, along with her PSA CEMAR.

 

 

Thanks Chancy, I was assuming both spouses were Filipino. But yeah, if OP's fiance was on an South Korean marriage visa, it's logical that her ex-husband was Korean.

 

Hopefully they find a way to get those documents proving that she's divorced. 

 

[Chancy 6,241]

5 minutes ago, Adventine said:

I was assuming both spouses were Filipino.

 

If both spouses were Filipino, recognition of foreign divorce would not have been possible under current PH law, even with a legal divorce abroad.

 

[Charlie Brown 302 22]

She, my fiance, married a Korean in the Philippines then moved to Korea. Registrating the marriage in both countries.

 

So technically, in the Philippines, her marriage to the Korean is still valid, even though they divorced in Korea.

 

Yes, the certificate of marriage relation for her ex, shows her being married and then divorced.

[top_secret 2,417]

8 hours ago, Charlie Brown 302 said:

Yes, the certificate of marriage relation for her ex, shows her being married and then divorced.

That sounds like what you need for the Embassy.  They are very specific about the document they require for a divorce in Korea.

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/Visa-Reciprocity-and-Civil-Documents-by-Country/SouthKorea.html

It is "The Marriage Relation Certificate (Detailed) “Honin Kwankye Jeungmyongseo (Sang Sae)"   Korea does not have Divorce Certificates per se.  They enter the divorce on the Marriage Relation Certificate and that is what the US Embassy wants.  Plus an English translation.

 

[top_secret 2,417]

Or maybe if the Embassy saw that already, they are happy with the divorce certificate and they really just want the "PSA CENOMAR".  Which will of course return from PSA as an Advisory on Marriage showing her married only to the Korean who is referenced in the Korean Marriage Relation Certificates showing the divorce. (and not married to anyone else in the Philippines eyes)  If the 221(g) simply says PSA CENOMAR and doesn't mention a Divorce Certificate then answer it by ordering a 'PSA CENOMAR" and supply the Embassy with the resulting Advisory on Marriage.

[Charlie Brown 302 22]

3 hours ago, top_secret said:

That sounds like what you need for the Embassy.  They are very specific about the document they require for a divorce in Korea.

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/Visa-Reciprocity-and-Civil-Documents-by-Country/SouthKorea.html

It is "The Marriage Relation Certificate (Detailed) “Honin Kwankye Jeungmyongseo (Sang Sae)"   Korea does not have Divorce Certificates per se.  They enter the divorce on the Marriage Relation Certificate and that is what the US Embassy wants.  Plus an English translation.

 

I sent a photocopy of it with the 129f packet and then they took the only original that we have during her interview.

 

I really hope they return that one.

 

I even included a fairly detailed explanation of all our attempts to get a copy of the actual divorce certificate.

 

 

[Charlie Brown 302 22]

3 hours ago, top_secret said:

Or maybe if the Embassy saw that already, they are happy with the divorce certificate and they really just want the "PSA CENOMAR".  Which will of course return from PSA as an Advisory on Marriage showing her married only to the Korean who is referenced in the Korean Marriage Relation Certificates showing the divorce. (and not married to anyone else in the Philippines eyes)  If the 221(g) simply says PSA CENOMAR and doesn't mention a Divorce Certificate then answer it by ordering a 'PSA CENOMAR" and supply the Embassy with the resulting Advisory on Marriage.

That is what i was thinking and hoping for.

 

Just to prove that she did not marry again when she return to the philippines.

 

I definitely have my fingers and toes crossed and I hope that process does not take very long time.