Refused entry despite B1

[SalishSea 18,072]

On 5/6/2022 at 2:45 PM, sanfairyanne said:

No because one of the questions asks if you've ever been refused entry to the U.S. I guess for the cost of the ESTA I could apply, but my guess is that I could get the ESTA then book a ticket and be refused again. Then of course I'd lose another £1000 flight. A better solution might be if I got an ESTA I could fly to Canada and then try to pass say between Vancouver and Seattle. The trouble is I have no need to go to Canada, it's a pain in the ### whatever I do. 

What is the urgency to get to the US, if this happened over two years ago, and if you no longer have that job?

 

 

[SalishSea 18,072]

On 5/6/2022 at 2:50 PM, Boiler said:

You do not need ESTA to enter by land although it is recommended 

 

But you can of course be refused and you are stuck in Canada and that assumes you can enter Canada

Really?  UK citizens with no ESTA or visa can just drive across the land borders?

 

Must be different for NZ citizens - husband had to have it before he got his B1/B2.

[Boiler 45,907]

https://www.nafsa.org/regulatory-information/implementation-esta-vwp-entry-land-ports-entry
 

opps now required after the 2nd May 

 

I thought they were changing it later in the year 

[SalishSea 18,072]

3 hours ago, Boiler said:

https://www.nafsa.org/regulatory-information/implementation-esta-vwp-entry-land-ports-entry
 

opps now required after the 2nd May 

 

I thought they were changing it later in the year 

Weird.  I thought it was required years ago.  Alec had to have one to come from NZ (via Vancouver) in 2015.

[sanfairyanne 0]

On 5/8/2022 at 12:18 AM, Jorgedig said:

What is the urgency to get to the US, if this happened over two years ago, and if you no longer have that job?

 

 

Because I would dearly love to go back and because I'd like to get a job again, AND because I need to know if I'm red flagged for other countries. For instance, when I applied for an e-visa for Kenya I was asked if I'd ever been refused entry to another country. I answered no, truthfully I don't know one way or another.

[sanfairyanne 0]

On 5/7/2022 at 5:48 PM, jan22 said:

Not sure exactly what you mean by "travel for travel purposes", but I'm assuming it means personal travel not related to the yacht job for which thever B1 was issued.  And, you could use it for personal travel incidental to your yacht job, going back and forth to it or side trips from it. 

 

But, you were not heading to the yacht or no longer have the yacht position for which the visa was issued, right?.  There are almost certainly notes somewhere in the system that indicates the visa was issued for working on a private yacht, even if it's not annotated on the vIsa itself.  They may have been concerned why you only had a B1 visa, since that is unusual and there are usually some restrictions tied to its use, and therefore called the Embassy (or a CBP liaison) to see what they should do.  Since you said it was issued for a job on a yacht, but you haven't been in the US for 6 years and never used this B1 at all, it may have been reported that you no longer worked for the yacht for which you applied for the visa and/or no longer had a position on that particular yacht and/or that the yacht was no longer opeating in US waters, so your vIsa was no longer needed.  They don't always have to specifically ask the purpose of your trip to see that your travel plan/purpose of your visit does not meet the requirements of the category of visa you have.  

 

Use the Embassy contact form and see what they say (cheapest alternative, will take some time for a response).  Or, apply for ESTA and, if it's denied, you'll see there really is some issue (slightly more expensive, but likely fastest).  Or, apply for a new B1/B2 visa and see what you are questioned about and what happens abut being issued a new visa (most expensive, and likely longest wait right now).  I would not try to use the B1 visa again for a personal trip.

Thanks for the in depth reply. Sorry by 'Travel for Travel Purposes' I meant to say that I'd been assured that you could travel with a B1 for purposes other than business. Regarding my work on yachts it was on contracts, I'd maybe spend a year on one ship, then a year on another. The visa was issued for one vessel, however, it carries over to another. In other words you don't need a new visa for every ship (thank god!). At the time I tried to fly I was actually signed off the vessel for which I obtained the visa, but the embassy wouldn't have known this. With my previous B1B2 I used it without trouble having annual trips to the States for 6 months at a time whether on a vessel or not.

One thing that I didn't take into consideration is that in 2010 I went to Pakistan. I was in the States on the B1B2 in 2014 without trouble. Then I was in Pakistan again in 2017, perhaps my visit to Pakistan has red flagged me?

You mention an Embassy contact form. I would dearly love to know how to access one. Please if you can link me to that I would be very grateful because I cannot find anything online. I will apply for an ESTA just for the heck of it but even if I get it I'd be super wary of paying for a flight to the States knowing full well that I could be refused entry yet again and therefore wasting the cost of a flight. 

Edited May 9, 2022 by sanfairyanne

[SusieQQQ 11,587]

2 hours ago, sanfairyanne said:

You mention an Embassy contact form. I would dearly love to know how to access one. Please if you can link me to that I would be very grateful because I cannot find anything online. 

Apparently you didn’t read the replies properly.

On 5/6/2022 at 4:50 PM, SusieQQQ said:

They have a contact form on their website

https://uk.usembassy.gov/visas/visa-information-services/contact-us-immigrant-visas/u-s-embassy-london-visa-unit-contact-form/

 

 

 

[SusieQQQ 11,587]

I assume OP is familiar with all these details but I post them (not an official but a seemingly reliable source) for education for the rest of us about the interplay of B1, B2, and working on yachts, as I don’t think many here are familiar with the details. Just one thing @sanfairyanne - I am assuming that your prior departure/s on yachts from the US were actually recorded as per the last part below?

https://www.onboardonline.com/superyacht-news/features/getting-to-the-bottom-of-the-b1b2-visa-for-yacht-crew/

 

The Foreign Affairs Manual (FAM) says that a B1 visa is available to any “crewmen of a private yacht who are able to establish that they have a residence abroad which they do not intend to abandon, regardless of the nationality of the private yacht. The yacht is to sail out of a foreign home port and cruising in US waters for more than 29 days.” The FAM is basically the guide book for all State Department and Foreign Service staff, so if you can prove that you fit this description, there is no reason to worry.

Let’s assume that all goes as planned and you walk away smiling with a visa in your pocket. Most crew think that they are in the clear at this point, but there are a few other important details to remember. First of all, which visa were you issued? The combined B1B2 is very common, but it is also possible to receive either a B1 (business), for example if you already have a job lined up, or a simple B2, for pleasure only. This is extremely important to be aware of!

When you pass through Customs and Border Control in the US, your passport will be stamped with your entry date but also with the date at which time you MUST leave US soil. Depending on your situation, this could be up to 6 months from when you arrive, but it is at the discretion of the officer on duty at the time so be nice! This information used to be recorded on a paper I-94 form but recently the process has been made electronic for air and sea travellers.
 

In addition, they will record the status of your entry, i.e. whether you entered for business (B1) or for pleasure (B2). If you are headed to the US without a job, it is imperative that you enter as a tourist, in other words, with B2 status. With this tourist status, crew are lawfully allowed to register with crew agencies and look for work. However, it is important to note they you are not legally allowed to accept daywork.

And the fine print doesn’t end there. Not only are you not technically allowed to daywork, if you are offered a job you are not legally allowed to accept it as a B2 tourist. This requires exiting the US and returning, with boat employment papers (from a non-US flagged boat of course), and being stamped in with B1 status.

…

If you are one of the lucky ones who manages to land a job and sail away from all this mess, you should make sure that your departure from the US is recorded by the Customs and Border Patrol so that you are successfully checked out of the country. If you were previously issued a paper I-94, it should be returned to CBP. If your I-94 was electronically issued, check your status to make sure it is correct. I realize that this may seem like one slap in the face too many, but the risk of doing otherwise is really not worth it.

If you leave the country on a private vessel (which is usually the case), and your departure is never recorded, the next time you apply for admission into the US you may be accused of having overstayed your welcome the last time. If this happens, the shiny visa that you worked so hard for could be revoked, and you might be sent back to where you came from.

[jan22 3,056]

You think the Embassy wouldn't know that you have not been working on a yacht in US waters, but they would know about a trip you took to Pakistan 5 years ago?

 

I know how B1 visas for working on personal yachts work -- but since you dIdn't mention another yacht and said you hadn't used the B1 at all, I assumed you no longer had a contract for any.  I believe you misunderstood the assurance you got regarding the use of a B1 visa.  If it could, in fact, be used for travel other than business, why would there even need to be two types of B visas?   Everyone would just get a B "visitor visa" no matter their reason for the visit.  The assurance was more likely as I said before -- you could use tbe B1 visa for short personal trips that were incidental to your primary reason for entering the US which was to serve on a yacht.

 

You didn't have a problem previously "whether on a vessel or not" precisely because it was a B1/B2 vIsa -- the B2 portion covered personal travel when you were not working on a vessel.  Your current visa does not -- because its a B1, your primary reason for entry must be for business activities only.

 

And, you have provided more information here that might have been a factor -- "having annual trips to the States for 6 months at a time" even when you weren't on a vessel.  If you had a pattern of that, there may be a something in the system questioning whether you had been using your visitor visa to essentially live in the US even when not under contract.

 

 

Edited May 9, 2022 by jan22

[sanfairyanne 0]

23 hours ago, SusieQQQ said:

I assume OP is familiar with all these details but I post them (not an official but a seemingly reliable source) for education for the rest of us about the interplay of B1, B2, and working on yachts, as I don’t think many here are familiar with the details. Just one thing @sanfairyanne - I am assuming that your prior departure/s on yachts from the US were actually recorded as per the last part below?

https://www.onboardonline.com/superyacht-news/features/getting-to-the-bottom-of-the-b1b2-visa-for-yacht-crew/

 

The Foreign Affairs Manual (FAM) says that a B1 visa is available to any “crewmen of a private yacht who are able to establish that they have a residence abroad which they do not intend to abandon, regardless of the nationality of the private yacht. The yacht is to sail out of a foreign home port and cruising in US waters for more than 29 days.” The FAM is basically the guide book for all State Department and Foreign Service staff, so if you can prove that you fit this description, there is no reason to worry.

Let’s assume that all goes as planned and you walk away smiling with a visa in your pocket. Most crew think that they are in the clear at this point, but there are a few other important details to remember. First of all, which visa were you issued? The combined B1B2 is very common, but it is also possible to receive either a B1 (business), for example if you already have a job lined up, or a simple B2, for pleasure only. This is extremely important to be aware of!

When you pass through Customs and Border Control in the US, your passport will be stamped with your entry date but also with the date at which time you MUST leave US soil. Depending on your situation, this could be up to 6 months from when you arrive, but it is at the discretion of the officer on duty at the time so be nice! This information used to be recorded on a paper I-94 form but recently the process has been made electronic for air and sea travellers.
 

In addition, they will record the status of your entry, i.e. whether you entered for business (B1) or for pleasure (B2). If you are headed to the US without a job, it is imperative that you enter as a tourist, in other words, with B2 status. With this tourist status, crew are lawfully allowed to register with crew agencies and look for work. However, it is important to note they you are not legally allowed to accept daywork.

And the fine print doesn’t end there. Not only are you not technically allowed to daywork, if you are offered a job you are not legally allowed to accept it as a B2 tourist. This requires exiting the US and returning, with boat employment papers (from a non-US flagged boat of course), and being stamped in with B1 status.

…

If you are one of the lucky ones who manages to land a job and sail away from all this mess, you should make sure that your departure from the US is recorded by the Customs and Border Patrol so that you are successfully checked out of the country. If you were previously issued a paper I-94, it should be returned to CBP. If your I-94 was electronically issued, check your status to make sure it is correct. I realize that this may seem like one slap in the face too many, but the risk of doing otherwise is really not worth it.

If you leave the country on a private vessel (which is usually the case), and your departure is never recorded, the next time you apply for admission into the US you may be accused of having overstayed your welcome the last time. If this happens, the shiny visa that you worked so hard for could be revoked, and you might be sent back to where you came from.

Thanks for all this clarification Susie. I can see here that a B1 is good, a B1B2 probably better, but a B2 alone would cause problems. Thankfully I got a B1.

[sanfairyanne 0]

On 5/7/2022 at 1:19 AM, Boiler said:

I have not heard of anybody getting a response in this sort of situation 

Thanks, I didn't know this existed. Unfortunately, there's nothing in the FAQ's for "I've been denied entry" or "I wasn't allowed to board the plane". I have sent a message, so I'll wait with hope that I get a reply.

 

[sanfairyanne 0]

On 5/6/2022 at 11:11 PM, JeanneAdil said:

that depends on how the airline views the regulations

if your flight would land u in the USA on the wrong date ,  u would not be allowed in

 

and not all personel in airports understood this ban 

 

do u know if the other Brits had a US green card?   Or US spouse or fiancee visa?

I don't know if other Brits had a green card or U.S spouse etc but there's no way this was the situation. The check in girl was downright rude to me, she treated me like utter scum. She was convinced I was a criminal. The flight was a direct early morning flight from Manchester to Vegas so it would have arrived on the same day. If she had been only allowing Europeans who had a green card or U.S spouse she would have been turning away 90% of the people boarding the plane. There's no way that was happening. 

[SusieQQQ 11,587]

2 hours ago, sanfairyanne said:

Thanks for all this clarification Susie. I can see here that a B1 is good, a B1B2 probably better, but a B2 alone would cause problems. Thankfully I got a B1.

Maybe I misread in all the previous posts but I thought you’d said you wanted to go back to look for another job too. You cant do that on a B1 according to that post.( I admit to being somewhat curious (you’ve said your lost your job and living off savings for two years) as to why you cannot look for a yacht job elsewhere.)

[SusieQQQ 11,587]

2 hours ago, sanfairyanne said:

I don't know if other Brits had a green card or U.S spouse etc but there's no way this was the situation. The check in girl was downright rude to me, she treated me like utter scum. She was convinced I was a criminal. The flight was a direct early morning flight from Manchester to Vegas so it would have arrived on the same day. If she had been only allowing Europeans who had a green card or U.S spouse she would have been turning away 90% of the people boarding the plane. There's no way that was happening. 

You didn’t answer a prior question about whether you ensured all your departures from the US were recorded. That seems to be a potential pitfall in your line of work.

[Redro 4,611]

@sanfairyanne

Have you visited the I-94 page?

You can see all your entries and exits for the last 10 years. 

You might discover one or two exits weren't recorded. 

Maybe your last exit. 

google i94 and it should come up. 

cbp dhs gov

Edited May 11, 2022 by ROK2USA