Britain straps video cameras to police helmets

[homesick_american 1]

I dont remember there being cameras everywhere when the IRA where blowing up cars left and right back in the 70's.

It wasn't nearly as sophisticated, but the UK was using fixed CCTV cameras as surveillance devices waaaaaaaaay back in the 1960s. The network was small and crude, but it existed.

[broma25 2]

If you dont do anything wrong then its no problem in my book!!!

What's "right" today may be "wrong" tomorrow, with you on the black list of "potential wrongdoers".

'Zactly. Where do you draw the line? How long is it going to be until they put cameras inside private residences?

You're right about one thing:

You have nothing to hide - but only because there's no place for you to hide anything anymore.

I agree with you on that. There's practically no such thing as privacy in the UK these days.

I would much rather live in a place where someone has to watch me pull my knickers from up my #######......than live in a place that criminals walk free!!!

In the UK both situations are true; they watch you pull the knickers from up your ####### AND there are criminals walking free; they're not even putting them in prison anymore because all the prisons are full.

And as a person that has the best interest of the UK at heart.....your solution would be???????

Oh and by the way...don't forget the cameras on are their way to America!!!

On the basis that it appears every police car here in the states has a video recorder on its dashboard seems only evolutionary that they put them on police helmets and I have no problem with that whatsoever either here or in the UK. UK town centres are crawling with CCTV from a crime element and have caused many a criminal to regret his action (and probably a few to not bother) And despite what was said early as someone who remembers the start of the troubles no they were not around pre-IRA bombing. Perhaps for those old enough to remember the best instance of CCTV catching criminals is in the case of toddler James Bulger when no-one would have dreamt off looking for two young boys as his abductors but for public and private CCTV footage. Give me CCTV cameras in public places over the Patriot ACt (which is a true invasion of privacy IMHO) any day of the week.

I had forgotten about poor little Jamie Bulger.....thank goodness for cameras!!

[homesick_american 1]

And as a person that has the best interest of the UK at heart.....your solution would be???????

Oh and by the way...don't forget the cameras on are their way to America!!!

Personally I don't care what happens in the UK anymore; nobody I care about lives there. I do like to slam it for its surveillance society, though, and hold it up as a warning to other countries.

We do have cameras in the United States, but nowhere near the level that they do in the UK. The British are the second-most spied-upon population in the world...right behind CHINA. That's pretty scary. In Dallas we have red light cameras now, but they fire right after the light changes and only photograph the people in the intersection. They do not record constantly. They have cameras on the tollroad, but they record license plates of people who don't have toll tags or who didn't pay the toll so they can be sent a bill. They don't record constantly either. We have traffic cams on the highways here, but they lack the resolution to record license plate numbers so you can't use them to track people all over the city. Police here actually have to use their heads.

I had forgotten about poor little Jamie Bulger.....thank goodness for cameras!!

Too bad about the dozens of people he was frogmarched past on his way to his death who didn't do anything. I don't think the case of Jamie Bulger is a good argument in favor of CCTV. The cameras didn't save his life; all they did was record a low-res image of the children who hauled him off. There are still plenty of unsolved murders in the UK...bodies that will never be found...and the cameras sure didn't help with them.

[broma25 2]

And as a person that has the best interest of the UK at heart.....your solution would be???????

Oh and by the way...don't forget the cameras on are their way to America!!!

Personally I don't care what happens in the UK anymore; nobody I care about lives there. I do like to slam it for its surveillance society, though, and hold it up as a warning to other countries.

We do have cameras in the United States, but nowhere near the level that they do in the UK. The British are the second-most spied-upon population in the world...right behind CHINA. That's pretty scary. In Dallas we have red light cameras now, but they fire right after the light changes and only photograph the people in the intersection. They do not record constantly. They have cameras on the tollroad, but they record license plates of people who don't have toll tags or who didn't pay the toll so they can be sent a bill. They don't record constantly either. We have traffic cams on the highways here, but they lack the resolution to record license plate numbers so you can't use them to track people all over the city. Police here actually have to use their heads.

I had forgotten about poor little Jamie Bulger.....thank goodness for cameras!!

Too bad about the dozens of people he was frogmarched past on his way to his death who didn't do anything. I don't think the case of Jamie Bulger is a good argument in favor of CCTV. The cameras didn't save his life; all they did was record a low-res image of the children who hauled him off. There are still plenty of unsolved murders in the UK...bodies that will never be found...and the cameras sure didn't help with them.

You like to slam it period!!!

Whichever way you butter it up....you are never going to get over your TERRIBLE experience of being married to a BRIT or having to ENDURE the UK for a whole 6 years!!!

Move on your back in Texas and the good ole US of A.............

[homesick_american 1]

You like to slam it period!!!

I've been known to gratuitously attack it, sure. Can't deny that.

Whichever way you butter it up....you are never going to get over your TERRIBLE experience of being married to a BRIT or having to ENDURE the UK for a whole 6 years!!!

I disagree; within a year or two I will have forgotten the bad stuff. Life's like that.

Move on your back in Texas and the good ole US of A.............

Yes, I know my geographic location...but that's not what we're discussing here. The discussion is about CCTV and surveillance, and the unavoidable fact that the UK population is one of the most watched in the world and that there are more CCTV cameras per capita than almost any other place on Earth. Personally, I am not comfortable with that. You may be...and that's fine, let's agree to disagree...but I'll continue to criticize the UK for its overwhelming surveillance because I do not want the same thing to happen in my country and I will fight it tooth and nail. Oh, and I don't have anything to hide either.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I haven't heard of CCTV causing any significant (rather 'qualifiable' privacy-related issues in the UK), but I suppose the point is that we'll have to start being very careful about the sorts of people we elect into government, otherwise this is a ready-made tool for a potentially repressive government.

Add that most terrorist acts seem to create this sort of reaction - government becomes more security concious and then starts to implement repressive measures on everyone else. Need only look at 9/11 for that - what with "Patriot" Acts and the like.

As I understand the framework of the camera system was installed to catch IRA bombers (I forget the town, but there was one place where a couple of people were killed in a town high street by explosives hidden in a trash bin (which is also a reason why there are no trash bins in UK airports, and very few inside train stations). Of course it goes to show that these things aren't dismantled when they are deemed no longer necessary... Far from it in fact...

[homesick_american 1]

Of course it goes to show that these things aren't dismantled when they are deemed no longer necessary... Far from it in fact...

That's the problem right there. IRA bombings are a thing of the past now; there hasn't been a significant incident since 1998 and CCTV didn't prevent Omagh anyway.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Of course it goes to show that these things aren't dismantled when they are deemed no longer necessary... Far from it in fact...

That's the problem right there. IRA bombings are a thing of the past now; there hasn't been a significant incident since 1998 and CCTV didn't prevent Omagh anyway.

Kind of why people are 'suspicious' of the likes of the Patriot Act - hard to see a time when it will be repealed, and its always easier to give away your freedoms than get them back.

Not hard to imagine that another 9/11 type scenario might bring about the election of someone rather more authoritarian than our current lot. That's when all this stuff might come back to bite us all in the butt.

[Widge 0]

CCTV is present in the UK now not to catch IRA but to prevent/catch criminals. I think the assumption that they are all installed by "BIG" government is a gross exaggeration are large proportion of cameras are actually on private property (the train station footage that caught the July 7th bombers is not govt run that is train stations protecting their patrons) In my home town (small market town) CCTV was installed and funded by the chamber of trade with support of the townspeople and yes it did make the town a safer place to be. I do believe their is a misconception that CCTV isn't here already in force (granted not to the extent of UK) but look to the ceiling in any store, garage forecourt, carpark ........ where do you think all the TV footage of grainy images comes from here on every crime show/news bulletin?

[homesick_american 1]

Of course it goes to show that these things aren't dismantled when they are deemed no longer necessary... Far from it in fact...

That's the problem right there. IRA bombings are a thing of the past now; there hasn't been a significant incident since 1998 and CCTV didn't prevent Omagh anyway.

Kind of why people are 'suspicious' of the likes of the Patriot Act - hard to see a time when it will be repealed, and its always easier to give away your freedoms than get them back.

Not hard to imagine that another 9/11 type scenario might bring about the election of someone rather more authoritarian than our current lot. That's when all this stuff might come back to bite us all in the butt.

I think the Patriot Act is here to stay; certain parts of it may go away over time but the Act itself won't ever go away. You're right; it IS easier to give away freedoms than to take them back, and with al Qaeda at full strength, I think it's more likely that the Act will be tightened.

I'm not sure I agree that another attack will bring about a more authoritarian administration, though. I live in a very very very red state (Texas) and I haven't heard anyone say a single complimentary thing about Bush since I've been here. Most people here that I've talked to are sick to the back teeth of him and the way he does things, and a lot of them voted for him in '00 and '04. They don't seem to think that his way is the best way to keep America safe. I'm not sure there IS a way to keep us safe.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

In London at least there is a centrally controlled network of cameras covering most of the city streets. They opened the big control room up there not so long ago.

[homesick_american 1]

CCTV is present in the UK now not to catch IRA but to prevent/catch criminals. I think the assumption that they are all installed by "BIG" government is a gross exaggeration are large proportion of cameras are actually on private property (the train station footage that caught the July 7th bombers is not govt run that is train stations protecting their patrons) In my home town (small market town) CCTV was installed and funded by the chamber of trade with support of the townspeople and yes it did make the town a safer place to be. I do believe their is a misconception that CCTV isn't here already in force (granted not to the extent of UK) but look to the ceiling in any store, garage forecourt, carpark ........ where do you think all the TV footage of grainy images comes from here on every crime show/news bulletin?

CCTV on private property in the USA doesn't concern me very much. It's a sad fact of life that CCTV is necessary for loss prevention, and with gas prices at near-record highs in the USA the temptation to steal gasoline is great and gas theft has skyrocketed. It just makes it more expensive for the rest of us so I don't mind if they track down the thieves and punish them. I'm not sure it really deters the thieves though. When I buy gas or go to a store, I just assume that I'm on camera. I don't really LIKE it, but it doesn't bother me very much. I suppose I'm used to it.

What bothered me about life in the UK was the constant surveillance. The town center in York was littered with CCTV cameras; you couldn't go anywhere in public in the city center without being photographed whether you were on private or public property. They've also installed them on the buses, they had them in my workplace in the lifts, the break areas, the outdoor areas, and even in the ceiling above peoples' work stations. The thing that creeped me out the most was the plan to track peoples' movements in their cars using their number plates and entering this information in a database. That is scary, creepy, freaky stuff. I felt like the only place that was truly private was my own home, but even then in some areas there are CCTV cameras that can see into houses or into back gardens. That's so violating.

Here in Dallas I rarely see CCTV cameras outside of big box stores or gas stations, and I have been looking for them. We do have red light cameras and we have 'eye in the sky' cameras on the roads, but they can't read number plates because their resolution is too poor. They could always replace them with high-res cameras to capture license plate numbers and I really hope they don't. In Dallas they don't really use speed cameras; cops patrol areas regularly that have problems with speeding. For example, cops in Dallas really love pulling people over on Midway between 635 and Beltline Rd. People here know that, so they usually drive the speed limit or a tad over on that stretch of road. Preston Rd between the Oak Lawn name change and Northwest Highway is another favorite...people there usually stick like glue to the 30mph speed limit.

Already I've seen more people pulled over in three weeks than I saw in six years in the UK. Here, the cops get up close and personal with you and they can use their own judgement in issuing fines. I've been pulled over several times in my life in Texas but I usually did not get a ticket. The cops can use discretion; automated systems with cameras cannot. That's another one of my objections to greed (speed) cameras; in my mind they're just there to make money. The M1 and M25 were littered with speed cameras but having been driven down those roads many times and experiencing people roaring past at 80mph PLUS, they don't seem to act as much of a deterrent...whereas people in the UK hit the brakes when they see a cop on the road, same as they do here. The cops act as a deterrent to speeding, NOT the cameras. I've noticed something about Dallas, too; when I left they didn't have nearly as many cops on the street and people drove like they were insane. Now the driving habits in DFW are much more sedate and courteous. When I left Texas, British drivers were a polite breath of fresh air...but I think DFW drivers have improved while drivers in the UK seem to have gotten more aggressive. I'm not saying cameras have anything to do with that; it's just an observation. I'm rambling now so I'll stop.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Aggressive driving I think is the result of bad road planning. Lot of road rage is generated by sitting in traffic, or being boxed in by slowpokes.

See the same thing in New Jersey. Though I did notice significant differences between different towns. Around where we live, the roads are wide (but still 2 lane) - but people still see the need to undertake just to get a cars length ahead. You can also find yourself getting honked at if you don't put the pedal to the metal the microsecond that the light goes green. Couple towns over (basically where you don't have heavy traffic and crazy jug-handle turns) - everyone is much more considerate and laid back.

[homesick_american 1]

Aggressive driving I think is the result of bad road planning. Lot of road rage is generated by sitting in traffic, or being boxed in by slowpokes.

See the same thing in New Jersey. Though I did notice significant differences between different towns. Around where we live, the roads are wide (but still 2 lane) - but people still see the need to undertake just to get a cars length ahead. You can also find yourself getting honked at if you don't put the pedal to the metal the microsecond that the light goes green. Couple towns over (basically where you don't have heavy traffic and crazy jug-handle turns) - everyone is much more considerate and laid back.

In Dallas I used to get run off the road! Now if I signal people hang back to let me move most of the time. It's awesome...what a diff. a few years makes.

[broma25 2]

Aggressive driving I think is the result of bad road planning. Lot of road rage is generated by sitting in traffic, or being boxed in by slowpokes.

See the same thing in New Jersey. Though I did notice significant differences between different towns. Around where we live, the roads are wide (but still 2 lane) - but people still see the need to undertake just to get a cars length ahead. You can also find yourself getting honked at if you don't put the pedal to the metal the microsecond that the light goes green. Couple towns over (basically where you don't have heavy traffic and crazy jug-handle turns) - everyone is much more considerate and laid back.

In Dallas I used to get run off the road! Now if I signal people hang back to let me move most of the time. It's awesome...what a diff. a few years makes.

Its amazing what a turn signal will do. If people see your signal they know what your intentions are and will allow you (in the main) to make your move.

Nothing irritates me more than someone that just cuts infront of me without their signal. If I had known their intention I would drop back to allow them in.

It does seem that not many people here in the US know what their turn signals are for and that causes other drivers to break because they are always expecting the unexpected.