Culture Based Narcissism?

[S S 25]

On 3/15/2022 at 9:55 AM, LionessDeon said:

It’s been quite awhile since I’ve been on this site participating in discussions.   When my husband (now ex husband) was first denied in 2014, I took it as my mission to help others in my situation. I did that for a few years.
Well now I’m back here trying to turn another negative into a positive and hoping my pain can again help others. After 5.5 years of marriage, I have discovered that I am a victim of a covert narcissist who (along with the enabling of his family) used me for a green card and a new life.  I am here to speak my truth and hopefully bring awareness to Covert Narcissism, a personality disorder rampant within a society plaqued by systemic poverty and survivalist mentality.  
Yes, now looking back I see the red flags I ignored and signs of deceit but it was so subtle and not knowing anything about covert narcissism I was completely blindsided.  

My intention is to make future posts to help point out the signs of narcissistic personality disorder so others have the knowledge that I didn’t have.  Being in a long distance relationship makes it very difficult to really know a person’s true character and intentions because of the limited time spent in person. It’s so easy for these people to hide their real self and create a fake persona of who you want them to be. I have personally heard the stories of over a dozen women that have been take advantage of by these types of people. The events and behaviors  are almost identical. 

I encourage anyone who has experienced this to share your story. I am a safe place and you can also private message me.  
 

Hey All,

 

I have been interested to find out if a recent post about this topic would pop up on Visa Journey. Today on my VJ email, it came up, and I have been waiting to share my story. I hope that I don't offend anyone, and I've tried to be kind of objective about an extremely subjective emotional topic.

 

Unfortunately, I am in the same situation as @LionessDeon. I am so sorry that you are going through this! Thank you for sharing your story, and know my heart goes out to you because I GET IT. 🥲

 

I am interested in finding out about other ideas of objective evidence to bring to the FDNS officer at the local USCIS office, as well as share what I was told by an attorney about reporting illegally gotten and use of immigration benefits..
 

First, It's devastating to come out of the fog of covert narcissism and know that I made this risky decision to marry someone and help him immigrate, only to verify from his sister about his true intentions: after being cheated on, abused, and abandoned when he got his permanent GC. I was love bombed at a vulnerable time, the perfect victim! I blindly vouched for him with US Immigration twice! It is humiliating to discuss this, but getting easier when I hear about others' experiences.

 

Second, an immigration attorney advised me that although I will never know what happens to him, I can report him to the ICE tip line/website, there is also an immigration fraud department at DHS where you can send an email about suspected marriage fraud, and then I just found out about bringing objective evidence to USCIS in this post.
 

Because I believe in justice, the sanctity of marriage, as well as providing immigration benefits for people who legally get them, I have reported him. I was told that if he ever at any time applies or petitions for anything or anyone, that my allegations will come up because our marriage is the reason why he immigrated to the US in the first place. It will be closely looked at because of my allegations on record. I was told that it could be soon or it could be years, but my allegations will stay on his immigration record as flags. That is the best that I can do as a federal immigration fraud victim!

 

Third, the healthiest thing to do for myself and for anyone who has experienced this, is to realize that you're not alone, this is a common problem in our immigration system, and it's not up to us to fix it. Just like any other crime, I have reported it to the federal officials who need to know, and now I'm moving on with my life.  As anyone who has been through a traumatic experience would be able to attest to, it takes a long time to heal such a wound.

Knowing that I am not alone, even on a forum such as VJ, which helped me be successful all those years ago, and that I can also come here and share honestly as well, is fantastic.  Hopefully someone will read this, and the red flags that they have been having will stop them in their tracks and slow them down so they can make a good decision  for themselves and their family. 

[JeanneAdil 6,484]

24 minutes ago, sos & ogs said:

Hey All,

 

I have been interested to find out if a recent post about this topic would pop up on Visa Journey. Today on my VJ email, it came up, and I have been waiting to share my story. I hope that I don't offend anyone, and I've tried to be kind of objective about an extremely subjective emotional topic.

 

Unfortunately, I am in the same situation as @LionessDeon. I am so sorry that you are going through this! Thank you for sharing your story, and know my heart goes out to you because I GET IT. 🥲

 

I am interested in finding out about other ideas of objective evidence to bring to the FDNS officer at the local USCIS office, as well as share what I was told by an attorney about reporting illegally gotten and use of immigration benefits..
 

First, It's devastating to come out of the fog of covert narcissism and know that I made this risky decision to marry someone and help him immigrate, only to verify from his sister about his true intentions: after being cheated on, abused, and abandoned when he got his permanent GC. I was love bombed at a vulnerable time, the perfect victim! I blindly vouched for him with US Immigration twice! It is humiliating to discuss this, but getting easier when I hear about others' experiences.

 

Second, an immigration attorney advised me that although I will never know what happens to him, I can report him to the ICE tip line/website, there is also an immigration fraud department at DHS where you can send an email about suspected marriage fraud, and then I just found out about bringing objective evidence to USCIS in this post.
 

Because I believe in justice, the sanctity of marriage, as well as providing immigration benefits for people who legally get them, I have reported him. I was told that if he ever at any time applies or petitions for anything or anyone, that my allegations will come up because our marriage is the reason why he immigrated to the US in the first place. It will be closely looked at because of my allegations on record. I was told that it could be soon or it could be years, but my allegations will stay on his immigration record as flags. That is the best that I can do as a federal immigration fraud victim!

 

Third, the healthiest thing to do for myself and for anyone who has experienced this, is to realize that you're not alone, this is a common problem in our immigration system, and it's not up to us to fix it. Just like any other crime, I have reported it to the federal officials who need to know, and now I'm moving on with my life.  As anyone who has been through a traumatic experience would be able to attest to, it takes a long time to heal such a wound.

Knowing that I am not alone, even on a forum such as VJ, which helped me be successful all those years ago, and that I can also come here and share honestly as well, is fantastic.  Hopefully someone will read this, and the red flags that they have been having will stop them in their tracks and slow them down so they can make a good decision  for themselves and their family. 

never be embarrassed for feeling love for another human being and trusting that love 

it is his loss 

it just amazes me that some who go thru this and DOUBT  the initial interview that the embassy makes and fight so hard to overcome a NOIR/NOID

the CO's in any embassy not only follow guidelines but they are privy to information they can not (or at least should not ) divulge to the USC

Besides red flags ,  there may be family history or past visa requests (like visa or embassy shopping ) that the Co sees and the USC knows nothing about

 

i was lucky

i fought a NOID/ i am still married over 12 years now

but i am lucky /not smart maybe/ just lucky to have a good one 

he got the green card. naturalized and is still with me/ so,  again i am lucky

 

i don't think we know much about immigration when we start the process/ and foreigners know more / this in itself should be a red flag

i didn't even know about the DV lottery

i don't think we know that the person could get the CR1 and arrive in the US and immediately leave us and we can do nothing 

the person can divorce and file waivers and we are hooked to the I 864 for 10 years

seeing all this in proper prospective ,  its scary and should scare us all

Edited March 28, 2022 by JeanneAdil

[LionessDeon 2,060]

On 3/16/2022 at 6:00 PM, Mary Lou said:

I tried to PM you but it wont go through

 

I’ll message you. 

[khans1025 6]

Thank you for making this post. I really resonate with this. 

I just had to split up from my ex-husband from who had the same traits... I am waiting on USCIS to let me know if I can remove myself from his i-751 petition that we filed about a year ago. 

I've felt so bad for the last few weeks but reading this is helpful... and thank you @Jeanne Adil for saying that we shouldn't feel embarrassed to have loved someone. He gave me unbearable stress, and panic attacks, all while he mentally manipulated me so he didn't have to work and thought I would support everything for the rest of his life. It was awful and i'm just glad I can move on. AFAIK he is in his home country and hasn't tried to come back to the US. It was a major loss on his part and I'm blessed to be able to have a support system around me and be able to move on and make my life better, and get back to who I was.

Edited April 3, 2022 by khans1025

[Boiler 45,434]

6 minutes ago, khans1025 said:

Thank you for making this post. I really resonate with this. 

I just had to split up from my ex-husband from who had the same traits... I am waiting on USCIS to let me know if I can remove myself from his i-751 petition that we filed about a year ago. 

I've felt so bad for the last few weeks but reading this is helpful... and thank you @Jeanne Adil for saying that we shouldn't feel embarrassed to have loved someone. He gave me unbearable stress, and panic attacks, all while he mentally manipulated me so he didn't have to work and thought I would support everything for the rest of his life. It was awful and i'm just glad I can move on. AFAIK he is in his home country and hasn't tried to come back to the US. It was a major loss on his part and I'm blessed to be able to have a support system around me and be able to move on and make my life better, and get back to who I was.

Your spouse for their benefit is the one that needs to switch to a divorce waiver.

[Villanelle 4,122]

@S S

 

Here is a thread about the topic 

 

Personally I feel the more appropriate phrase is 'actionable evidence' rather than 'objective evidence'. While the phrases are very similar- objective means along the lines of unbiased. Your objective evidence can be unactionable. 

 

So what is actionable evidence and how do you get it to the right person? The thread I posted is almost a decade old now but still relevant as reporting procedures have not changed except COVID protocols and the closure to infopass means you will have to mail your evidence to your local office attn FDNS as well as to the service center. 

 

Now I have helped several people with creating packages for FDNS. Some have reported back a successful outcome, others simply disappear as is often the case, a lot of unresolved issues posted about on VJ where they never follow up with the outcome. Sadly most people just don't have actionable type evidences. 

 

Anytime one is in a 'whistle-blower' position they need to be extra careful about what they post and share online. As well as in private groups because honestly you can never know who you are really talking to. Just because someone has a legitimate looking profile,  doesn't mean it's real. The Catfish TV show is a good example of this, plus has anyone seen those deep fakes of celebrities floating around? You need to be diligent now more than ever. 

 

There can be retaliation from who you reporting or from family/friends on their behalf. In addition to safety and privacy concerns- the whole concept of submitting 'objective information' means to not present yourself as someone desperate to cause trouble out of revenge or spite. 

 

You are free to post what you choose about your situation. I would never ask for any details because yes, while it's much easier for you to put it all out there and me and others here give you input back,  its a risk. 

 

 So instead I am just going to give you a bunch of general information and you can evaluate if it applies to you or not and if you have questions or need more information about specific aspect please ask.

 

In general you want to show evidence they lack GMC. To obtain a GC through your spouse you have to make a sworn statement that you entered the marriage in good faith.  If you get the conditional GC you have to prove again at the 2yr mark that yes, 2yrs ago you entered in good faith and nothings happened in the last 2yrs suggesting otherwise.

 

You can be divorced.  Maybe things didn't work out.  Feelings can change. Meaning you entered in good faith, fully intended on spending your life with the person but then your feelings changed. Changed feelings is NOT a reason for denial.  BUT if your feelings changed and you stayed in the marriage for the benefit thats a problem. In that case it's not about whether you entered in good faith. It's about concealing information for a benefit.

 

So the timeline of what happened when during the process matters when trying to use adultery as evidence . If someone had a secret ongoing relationship prior to your marriage and then after the divorce they file for the one they left behind, yeah that's pretty obvious to show. 

 

If you married and cheating occurred during the conditional card- did you know about it? Could you show you were under the belief you had a solid marriage but they were living a secret life and making plans to bounce once ROC was approved? They should've just divorced and filed with a waiver. Perhaps because they had bad intentions initially they wanted to make sure they were approved so they commit additional fraud. Sometimes people are stupid and dig themselves deeper making more problems than they originally had. IDK.

 

To establish they lack GMC when making the initial and if applicable subsequent statement , you ideally want to show evidence that they lied to another government agency for a benefit.

 

This is the most solid and actionable evidence you can submit. 

 

This can be them filing a false police report or restraining order. Cheating on taxes. Applying for social services or programs they aren't eligible for. Documentation of a false statement being made for some kind of benefit whether it's to a cop, a judge, a government office worker, school, etc. 

 

One step lower than that would be showing they lied to a private individual or company for a benefit (someone other than you). Can you establish they defrauded anyone?  Do they have a questionable history with banks or ever submitted false loans documents? Ever ripped someone off and was sued? Had disputes with PayPal or ebay type stuff where people complained they didn't get the product or service promised.

 

The goal is to show evidence they do not have good moral character which is required to make a statement of I entered the marriage in good faith or demonstrate that they concealed information to secure a benefit.

 

And as I rambled about above about not trusting stuff on the internet USCIS/FDNS feels the same way about screenshots and profiles and what not. You need to have some kind of solid paperwork. It is possible to turn digital type stuff they would normally disregard into a paperwork format that they would accept  (as light consideration with other more solid evidence) How to do such depends on what it is. Typically it's showing the digital evidence to someone they consider a person of assumed GMC. Priest, Dr, Lawyer, social worker,etc. Someone whose profession is ethics bound. Such person could view the media and submit a letter describing what they viewed and the circumstances they viewed it in. Hence the media can be acknowledged to an extent. 

 

You also need to draft a carefully written statement. Of course you can include emotions- but theres a difference with writing an emotionally charged letter and a letter that is objective yet still contains information about your emotions and viewpoint. Chronological order is usually best. Refer to specific pieces of evidence you are including as you go,  you can label your evidence with numbers or letters and at the appropriate time say refer to #1 attachment. The more things you can connect and establish the better. Receipts to establish one was where they claimed. If you went to 7-11 and got a slurpy and came home to find out your spouse moved out cause the GC came in the mail the day before. Tell them and show the receipt or charge on your bank statement. How the card was delivered proof of mailing. You have to give them the dots to connect without coming across as trying to tell them how to do their job.

 

The online submit a tip system, which I know is endorsed at the bottom of VJ, it is technically an accurate official recommendation... but if you research into it you will find the tips submitted there about this type of scenario are ultimately filtered and disregarded as they only look into marriage fraud rings/trafficking stuff. The FDNS officers are who work on these cases are not guaranteed to be forwarded stuff from the tip system so you want to submit it to them yourself directly.

[Pinkelephant 0]

@Villanelle

thank you so very much for this detailed post especially objective vs actionable evidence

 

My estranged wife has been previously permanently banned but got back under waiver of inadmissibility by me

 

Of course, she went poof within days, filed for divorce and now threatens me with AOS. 

 

I've finally getting through the shock and compiling evidence of how 5 yrs of my trying to get her back here was all for a few days to commit this fraud.

 

When you refer to local fdns office, where do we get this info? I can't find any in my city. 

 

Thank you very much once again

[Villanelle 4,122]

3 hours ago, Pinkelephant said:

@Villanelle

thank you so very much for this detailed post especially objective vs actionable evidence

 

My estranged wife has been previously permanently banned but got back under waiver of inadmissibility by me

 

Of course, she went poof within days, filed for divorce and now threatens me with AOS. 

 

I've finally getting through the shock and compiling evidence of how 5 yrs of my trying to get her back here was all for a few days to commit this fraud.

 

When you refer to local fdns office, where do we get this info? I can't find any in my city. 

 

Thank you very much once again

Every local office has an FDNS Officer. So just mail your statement and evidences to your local office attn FDNS. You can find your local office based on zip code on USCIS website.

 

It's always recommended to use a tracking number when mailing anything to USCIS so you can be sure it arrived.

 

[Pinkelephant 0]

@Villanelle

 

Thank you so much. I didn't know that. 

 

In sending evidence, how thorough should one be. In my case it's her court filing with days from arrival. 30 pages.

 

Is that too much? 

 

Is information of her moving to live with her ex bf (that apparently they were in touch with for all the time we were married) considered evidence? Or it will come off as retaliatory...That I was used for them to reunite? I have evidence of them dating before we married. 

 

Thank you so much! 

[Villanelle 4,122]

10 hours ago, Pinkelephant said:

@Villanelle

 

Thank you so much. I didn't know that. 

 

In sending evidence, how thorough should one be. In my case it's her court filing with days from arrival. 30 pages.

 

Is that too much? 

 

Is information of her moving to live with her ex bf (that apparently they were in touch with for all the time we were married) considered evidence? Or it will come off as retaliatory...That I was used for them to reunite? I have evidence of them dating before we married. 

 

Thank you so much! 

There is no minimum or maximum of pages of evidence to send. If a document is large you will need to use your judgment to determine if the entire document should be sent or if it can be broken down and relevant pages only included. 

 

Your personal statement or letter of explanation should be a maximum of 4-6 pages in general.  Anything longer than 6 pages can be tiring to read. But again use your best judgment on the ultimate length of it. 

 

Im not sure exactly what your situation is and honestly don't understand the phrase you used 'threatens me with AOS'. You refer to her as estranged spouse and mentioned a waiver so I suspect she came on CR or IR. There is no AOS in the cr/ir process. She would have gotten her GC at entry. Do you mean threatening you with the 864? If so I can offer additional advice on such.

 

If she was a K and entered and you promptly married and filed AOS package and then she immediately filed for divorce you should withdraw the 864 in the AOS package and protect yourself from false abuse allegations by ensuring you are never alone with her. Attempting to prevent a false abuse claim for benefits is more difficult.

 

 

[Pinkelephant 0]

51 minutes ago, Villanelle said:

There is no minimum or maximum of pages of evidence to send. If a document is large you will need to use your judgment to determine if the entire document should be sent or if it can be broken down and relevant pages only included. 

 

Your personal statement or letter of explanation should be a maximum of 4-6 pages in general.  Anything longer than 6 pages can be tiring to read. But again use your best judgment on the ultimate length of it. 

 

Im not sure exactly what your situation is and honestly don't understand the phrase you used 'threatens me with AOS'. You refer to her as estranged spouse and mentioned a waiver so I suspect she came on CR or IR. There is no AOS in the cr/ir process. She would have gotten her GC at entry. Do you mean threatening you with the 864? If so I can offer additional advice on such.

 

If she was a K and entered and you promptly married and filed AOS package and then she immediately filed for divorce you should withdraw the 864 in the AOS package and protect yourself from false abuse allegations by ensuring you are never alone with her. Attempting to prevent a false abuse claim for benefits is more difficult.

 

 

Oh interesting. I didn't know there's a difference between AOS & 864. I filled out a 864 as a part of the waiver forms but I guess it's casually referred to as AOS.

 

She entered with an IR1 as we had already been married for over 3 yrs ( I was working on the waiver those yrs so she entered with IR1)

 

She did claim in the divorce that I changed and was using her emotionally which begs the question of why that feeling manifested in a few days from a previously permanently deported person due to misrepresentation. 

 

 

And thank you heaps for the explanation. This is information I never knew where to find. 

 

 

 

Edited April 25, 2022 by Pinkelephant