SAWASDEE 2

[TucsonBill 0]

Bill,

Does "actually met" mean your first meeting in person - face to face - or your first contact with each other of any kind - such as in a chat room, writing e-mail via a 'dating' web site or after obtaining contact information through such a site or from a mutual friend?

Yodrak

...

They also want more details on how we actually met.

Bill

Specifically it says and I quote:

Submit information regarding the circumstances under which the petitioner and beneficiary met to establish the relationship

[bryan45876 0]

My Thai friend was denied a Tourist Visa to the US today and I wanted to see what the opinions of the members of this board are. The embassy said that she does not have significant ties to Thailand that will make her return. Here is some information about her:

- 24 year old Thai female

- currently studying for a Master Degree in Engineering (in Thailand)

- already graduated with a Batchelor Degree in Engineering (in Thailand)

- spent 3 months working an internship in Europe

- has traveled to (and returned) from 7 other countries

- Interviewed in English

- Father and relative will sponsor the trip

She wanted to visit her Great Uncle who lives in California. I thought she had a strong case, but I guess not. Here’s a list of the documents she provided.

- Invitation letter from her relative in the US

- Letter of enrollment confirmation from her University

- Personal letter from her Thesis Advisor saying that she has not yet completed all of the graduation requirements

- Transcripts

- Confirmation document about internship in Europe

- Bank book (they didn’t even look at it)

- Batchelor Degree Diploma

Now she is trying to determine if she really doesn’t have the qualifications to receive a US Tourist Visa or if maybe her interviewer was just having a bad day and if she should apply again. Any opinions are welcome.

[Yodrak 7]

Bill,

Thanks for providing the quote. It doesn't help me understand with certainty, but I'm most inclined to think they mean the face-to-face meeting.

The reason I asked the question was because if they want more information about an initial contact over the internet, they might have been asking to clarify in their own mind whether or not the contact was via an IMB as defined in the Act.

Yodrak

Bill,

Does "actually met" mean your first meeting in person - face to face - or your first contact with each other of any kind - such as in a chat room, writing e-mail via a 'dating' web site or after obtaining contact information through such a site or from a mutual friend?

Yodrak

...

They also want more details on how we actually met.

Bill

Specifically it says and I quote:

Submit information regarding the circumstances under which the petitioner and beneficiary met to establish the relationship

[TucsonBill 0]

Bill,

Thanks for providing the quote. It doesn't help me understand with certainty, but I'm most inclined to think they mean the face-to-face meeting.

The reason I asked the question was because if they want more information about an initial contact over the internet, they might have been asking to clarify in their own mind whether or not the contact was via an IMB as defined in the Act.

Yodrak

Bill,

Does "actually met" mean your first meeting in person - face to face - or your first contact with each other of any kind - such as in a chat room, writing e-mail via a 'dating' web site or after obtaining contact information through such a site or from a mutual friend?

Yodrak

...

They also want more details on how we actually met.

Bill

Specifically it says and I quote:

Submit information regarding the circumstances under which the petitioner and beneficiary met to establish the relationship

Yodrak, I posted a newer thread in the forum that goes into much more specifics, I would greatly appreciate your thoughts. I dont want to assume they mean 'fact to face' meeting and then get a 2nd RFE.

Bill

Edited October 6, 2006 by TucsonBill

[Yodrak 7]

bryan,

I see some double-edge swords here, so let me say first off that much on the list of documents doesn't tell us anything without seeing the documents to know specifically what information was provided and how it was conveyed.

Item by item:

- a 24 year-old Thai female is prime marriage material

- BS in engineering and a partial MS is prime employment material

- returned to Thailand from the internship, but adds to her employment qualifications, how was it presented

- travel history is a good plus for her, how was it presented?

- good English skills, more better marriage and employment material

- Father and relative will sponsor the trip - this is why they didn't care about her bank book

- what did the uncle's letter say, and how did it say it? Meaningless fluff ('I guarantee that she will leave and return to Thailand') or specific information about the proposed visit consistent with the specific and realistic plans for the visit that she herself presented with the visa application?

- what's lost if she fails to return to Thailand to complete her MS program? She has the skills to find a school and finish her education in the USA

- Transcripts support that she has the skills to find employment and finish her education in the USA

- Internship in Europe support that she has the skills to find employment and finish her education in the USA

- Bank book is irrelevant, she isn't financing her proposed trip

- BS diploma, how many times do I have to say it?

So what, other than finishing her MS program at her Thai university, would possible compel her to return to Thailand? She doesn't appear to have said.

If she has more to say then it could be worth re-applying with the additional information, including possible re-statement of the other information to sharpen the Thai edge of the sword and dull the American edge. But a second try will be more difficult given the first refusal. Could well depend on which consular officer handles the application, and if that consular officer has recently been burned.

Just out of curiosity, did she apply in Bangkok or Chiangmai? I don't know if one is 'easier' than the other, or if switching for a 2nd attempt would be looked on as trying to play games, but it would ensure a different visa officer for the 2nd attempt.

Yodrak

My Thai friend was denied a Tourist Visa to the US today and I wanted to see what the opinions of the members of this board are. The embassy said that she does not have significant ties to Thailand that will make her return. Here is some information about her:

- 24 year old Thai female

- currently studying for a Master Degree in Engineering (in Thailand)

- already graduated with a Batchelor Degree in Engineering (in Thailand)

- spent 3 months working an internship in Europe

- has traveled to (and returned) from 7 other countries

- Interviewed in English

- Father and relative will sponsor the trip

She wanted to visit her Great Uncle who lives in California. I thought she had a strong case, but I guess not. Here's a list of the documents she provided.

- Invitation letter from her relative in the US

- Letter of enrollment confirmation from her University

- Personal letter from her Thesis Advisor saying that she has not yet completed all of the graduation requirements

- Transcripts

- Confirmation document about internship in Europe

- Bank book (they didn't even look at it)

- Batchelor Degree Diploma

Now she is trying to determine if she really doesn't have the qualifications to receive a US Tourist Visa or if maybe her interviewer was just having a bad day and if she should apply again. Any opinions are welcome.

Bill,

Then address both issues in your response to the RFE - describe how you came to be aware of each other's existance and your first meeting in person.

Yodrak

.... I dont want to assume they mean 'fact to face' meeting and then get a 2nd RFE.

Bill

Edited October 6, 2006 by Yodrak

[anya-D 8]

My Thai friend was denied a Tourist Visa to the US today and I wanted to see what the opinions of the members of this board are. The embassy said that she does not have significant ties to Thailand that will make her return. Here is some information about her:

- 24 year old Thai female

- currently studying for a Master Degree in Engineering (in Thailand)

- already graduated with a Batchelor Degree in Engineering (in Thailand)

- spent 3 months working an internship in Europe

- has traveled to (and returned) from 7 other countries

- Interviewed in English

- Father and relative will sponsor the trip

She wanted to visit her Great Uncle who lives in California. I thought she had a strong case, but I guess not. Here’s a list of the documents she provided.

- Invitation letter from her relative in the US

- Letter of enrollment confirmation from her University

- Personal letter from her Thesis Advisor saying that she has not yet completed all of the graduation requirements

- Transcripts

- Confirmation document about internship in Europe

- Bank book (they didn’t even look at it)

- Batchelor Degree Diploma

Now she is trying to determine if she really doesn’t have the qualifications to receive a US Tourist Visa or if maybe her interviewer was just having a bad day and if she should apply again. Any opinions are welcome.

well I see Yodrak already explain a lot - I thought the same thing

I also got denied "student" visa becasue I have not enough tie to Thailand - had all the evidents about the same as your friends except that I was an aupair in the US for a year before I apply for the student visa.. I also had proves that I've been working in europe and came back.. and the fact that I came back from the US to apply for a student visa (not just change visa type while i was here as aupair) I though they would see it as proves that i'd return.. but nope.. they still say I dont have enough ties.. I dont know what can you have to proves TIES to Thailand... sorry.. cant help you here

[malydon 0]

A question for the couples who have applied for the AOS. After they recieve your package how long before they deposit your check? We sent them the package two weeks ago and they recieved it the next day but stil no activity on my bank account. Is this normal?

Also does anybody have the number you can call to get more information since I hear that emails don't work to well.

Thanks

Su and Ray

Su and Ray

I hope things are going well for you. I looked at my records and found that I made the check out and mailed it on 7/26/2006 and it was cashed on 8/9/2006. I hope this helps you.

Mike and Jass

http://www.myspace.com/116087025 "Work in Progress"

[Randy 0]

My Thai friend was denied a Tourist Visa to the US today and I wanted to see what the opinions of the members of this board are. The embassy said that she does not have significant ties to Thailand that will make her return. Here is some information about her:

- 24 year old Thai female

- currently studying for a Master Degree in Engineering (in Thailand)

- already graduated with a Batchelor Degree in Engineering (in Thailand)

- spent 3 months working an internship in Europe

- has traveled to (and returned) from 7 other countries

- Interviewed in English

- Father and relative will sponsor the trip

She wanted to visit her Great Uncle who lives in California. I thought she had a strong case, but I guess not. Here’s a list of the documents she provided.

- Invitation letter from her relative in the US

- Letter of enrollment confirmation from her University

- Personal letter from her Thesis Advisor saying that she has not yet completed all of the graduation requirements

- Transcripts

- Confirmation document about internship in Europe

- Bank book (they didn’t even look at it)

- Batchelor Degree Diploma

Now she is trying to determine if she really doesn’t have the qualifications to receive a US Tourist Visa or if maybe her interviewer was just having a bad day and if she should apply again. Any opinions are welcome.

Bryan.. I wouldn't put too much effort into trying to get her here on a tourist visa. I was told the BKK embassy rejects 95% of tourist visa requests from single Thai women. When my fiance attempted this a few years ago, she was rejected for "failing to demonstrate sufficient family and economic ties to guarantee" her return. I took this wording directly from her denial letter. There is nothing in your list above that addresses either of these 2 items. I believe the only "family ties" they will accept is leaving a spouse or child behind because all of these women have family there.

Sorry I can't provide more encouragement for you. I will say it is very easy for USC to get into Thailand so maybe this is an option for you.

[Yodrak 7]

Randy,

Interestingly, if sufficient ties are in doubt, leaving a spouse or child behind is not sufficient to overcome the doubt. See 9 FAM 41.31 Notes, N3.5.

And with regard to Thailand, where large numbers of women leave their children behind in rural villages with family member while they go to Bangkok to work and may see their children only rarely, perhaps as little as 1 or 2 times per year, I suspect that leaving a child behind would carry much weight even without considering the specific directive.

Yodrak

.... I believe the only "family ties" they will accept is leaving a spouse or child behind because all of these women have family there.

....

[bryan45876 0]

bryan,

I see some double-edge swords here, so let me say first off that much on the list of documents doesn't tell us anything without seeing the documents to know specifically what information was provided and how it was conveyed.

Item by item:

- a 24 year-old Thai female is prime marriage material

- BS in engineering and a partial MS is prime employment material

- returned to Thailand from the internship, but adds to her employment qualifications, how was it presented

- travel history is a good plus for her, how was it presented?

- good English skills, more better marriage and employment material

- Father and relative will sponsor the trip - this is why they didn't care about her bank book

- what did the uncle's letter say, and how did it say it? Meaningless fluff ('I guarantee that she will leave and return to Thailand') or specific information about the proposed visit consistent with the specific and realistic plans for the visit that she herself presented with the visa application?

- what's lost if she fails to return to Thailand to complete her MS program? She has the skills to find a school and finish her education in the USA

- Transcripts support that she has the skills to find employment and finish her education in the USA

- Internship in Europe support that she has the skills to find employment and finish her education in the USA

- Bank book is irrelevant, she isn't financing her proposed trip

- BS diploma, how many times do I have to say it?

So what, other than finishing her MS program at her Thai university, would possible compel her to return to Thailand? She doesn't appear to have said.

If she has more to say then it could be worth re-applying with the additional information, including possible re-statement of the other information to sharpen the Thai edge of the sword and dull the American edge. But a second try will be more difficult given the first refusal. Could well depend on which consular officer handles the application, and if that consular officer has recently been burned.

Just out of curiosity, did she apply in Bangkok or Chiangmai? I don't know if one is 'easier' than the other, or if switching for a 2nd attempt would be looked on as trying to play games, but it would ensure a different visa officer for the 2nd attempt.

Yodrak

Yodrak,

Thanks for the response. I guess after thinking about some of your points I can see both sides of the argument. When she portrayed the documents every effort was given to try and show a history of travel and returning to Thailand. Continuing her studies are the strongest evidence of a reason for her to return.

I guess I'm at a loss to think of what other evidence a single, educated, well-traveled, young Thai women could provide to prove and guarantee her return? I realize she has a good employment credentials, but how would she be able to find a good job in the US with out the right legal status? To the same point, how could she continue school in the US without the right non-immigrant status?

The uncle's letter was just a simple invitation letter trying to show she had a place to stay and some one to show her around.

She applied at the consulate in Bangkok. There is no choice about where she could apply, it depends upon what part of Thailand she has lived in the most during the last year.

Bryan

[bryan45876 0]

My Thai friend was denied a Tourist Visa to the US today and I wanted to see what the opinions of the members of this board are. The embassy said that she does not have significant ties to Thailand that will make her return. Here is some information about her:

- 24 year old Thai female

- currently studying for a Master Degree in Engineering (in Thailand)

- already graduated with a Batchelor Degree in Engineering (in Thailand)

- spent 3 months working an internship in Europe

- has traveled to (and returned) from 7 other countries

- Interviewed in English

- Father and relative will sponsor the trip

She wanted to visit her Great Uncle who lives in California. I thought she had a strong case, but I guess not. Here’s a list of the documents she provided.

- Invitation letter from her relative in the US

- Letter of enrollment confirmation from her University

- Personal letter from her Thesis Advisor saying that she has not yet completed all of the graduation requirements

- Transcripts

- Confirmation document about internship in Europe

- Bank book (they didn’t even look at it)

- Batchelor Degree Diploma

Now she is trying to determine if she really doesn’t have the qualifications to receive a US Tourist Visa or if maybe her interviewer was just having a bad day and if she should apply again. Any opinions are welcome.

well I see Yodrak already explain a lot - I thought the same thing

I also got denied "student" visa becasue I have not enough tie to Thailand - had all the evidents about the same as your friends except that I was an aupair in the US for a year before I apply for the student visa.. I also had proves that I've been working in europe and came back.. and the fact that I came back from the US to apply for a student visa (not just change visa type while i was here as aupair) I though they would see it as proves that i'd return.. but nope.. they still say I dont have enough ties.. I dont know what can you have to proves TIES to Thailand... sorry.. cant help you here

I also don't understand that situation. If you had already lived in the US for a year and you had intentions of "running away" from Thailand I think you could have figured out a way to do it. I also would have thought that since you returned to Thailand to apply for a student visa that would have strengthened your case. Out of curiosity, what type of school did you plan to study at in the US? A 4 year University, a community college, an intensive English program?

Bryan

[dbirner 0]

As stated before, around 95% of single women get refused a tourist visa. My wife, when she first applied showed she owns her own home which is proof of ties to Thailand. They didn't believe she owned it because her salary was not alot. Of coarse I guess that person never heard of a mortgage. I think you pretty much have to come from a high society family in order to get a tourist visa.

Edited October 8, 2006 by dbirner

[TucsonBill 0]

I know a lady in Thailand that owns an insurance agency with 5 offices in 5 different cities, a dozen employees, owns her home there and even had a nice big fat bank account, new car etc. She is divorced and has 2 children in college there. All she wanted to do was accompany a friend that was approved to visit an aunt that lives in Las Vegas. I have been aquatinted with her for about a year and we discussed the insurance business in the US vs Thailand. I also wrote her a letter of recomendation on my company letterhead. She submitted all this evidence and...

She was denied.

Hard to get here from there on a tourist visa for sure!

Bill

Edited October 8, 2006 by TucsonBill

[dbirner 0]

But yet her friend was approved for a trip to Vegas. Who knows what goes on inside the heads of some the Consulate officers?!?!?

[e_b_d 0]

Hi all,

I also want to add my condolences to the Bryan and his friend... I've been through the tourist visa rejection with my fiance (before we were engaged and we just wanted to visit my family). The fact is, they just don't have to give those tourist visas to anyone unless they're sure you'll come back, and to make them sure enough can be impossible depending on your life circumstances.

I have a question for anyone who has been through the K-1 process with a Thai fiance: Can you tell me whether the Bangkok embassy will request the I-134 or the I-864? I'm just working on the I-129 right now, but I want to be ready for when the affadavit of support is needed.

Also, am I right in noticing that everyone in Thailand goes through the BKK embassy for the K-1 process? My fiance and I live in Chiang Mai, but I've noticed on this site that there are no reports of interviews at the Chiang Mai consulate.

Thanks