SAWASDEE 2

[toma1 10]

And yes, Thaksin was corrupt and I would have been happy to see him ousted at the ballot box. Again, rough and tumble as Thai democracy has been (vote buying, violence, etc.), at least it was a start. When the military seized power in 2006, it reset the clock on the country by a good 20 years -- all the incremental progress toward democratic institutions was wiped out. Because I still have a certain Kon Thai's interest in mind, I will take the precaution of not saying exactly what I think of HM's involvement in all this, but suffice to say there's a sea of yellow on the streets today.

My friends gave me one of those yellow shirts, and a pink one as well. I guess the yellow one means, "Long live the King" or something like that. I wear it to the Thai temple in Tampa now and then. I'm not sure what the pink one means...

It seems that a lot of the (resident) foreigners in BKK support the PAD as well. Is that also true? I met a lot of these people through Anna.

Edited November 26, 2008 by toma1

[symbiosis 0]

symbiosis, though one could call the PAD 'elites,' it does not appear as though they represent the wealthy Thai. Mr. Thaksin and his cronies would fit that bill. The PAD appears to rally overwhelming support from the middle-class who felt discontent with Mr. Thaksin's populist i.e. socialist policies of universal healthcare and redistribution of wealth (1 million Baht per village scheme).

Mr. Sondhi, who has been backing the PAD since before Mr. Thaksin's removal, appears to have been scorned by Mr. Thaksin over a government-backed media deal that left him in the dark. Mr. Sondhi capitalized on his media connections to draw the disenfranchised Bangkokians and middle-class Thai into his cause.

What is of interest is the conversation between HM the King and Mr. Thaksin in April 2006. Hours after they met in Hua Hin, Mr. Thaksin agreed to step down as Prime Minister and called for the subsequent snap-election which he would go on to win. It was then in September that he was ousted by a military coup. It is widely speculated that General Prem, HM the King's Privy Council Chairman, orchestrated the coup. It is also of interest to note HM's noticeable silence during the past few months of increasingly disruptive protests. I have a feeling if things escalate to wide-spread violence, he shall break silence to restore order.

What is painfully obvious is the degree of internal turmoil in the Kingdom and how it is being perceived internationally: While politicians fight over power, the world watches. My prayers go out to all Thai, that they may be safe and that peace be restored.

THAITOUSA: Politics aside, I noticed you hail from Baltimore. I am in Annapolis area. Maybe we can meet up once my fiancee arrives. I am hoping to find a circle of Thai friends for her.

[symbiosis 0]

And yes, Thaksin was corrupt and I would have been happy to see him ousted at the ballot box. Again, rough and tumble as Thai democracy has been (vote buying, violence, etc.), at least it was a start. When the military seized power in 2006, it reset the clock on the country by a good 20 years -- all the incremental progress toward democratic institutions was wiped out. Because I still have a certain Kon Thai's interest in mind, I will take the precaution of not saying exactly what I think of HM's involvement in all this, but suffice to say there's a sea of yellow on the streets today.

My friends gave me one of those yellow shirts, and a pink one as well. I guess the yellow one means, "Long live the King" or something like that. I wear it to the Thai temple in Tampa now and then. I'm not sure what the pink one means...

It seems that a lot of the (resident) foreigners in BKK support the PAD as well. Is that also true? I met a lot of these people through Anna.

It varies, I think, though the political winds could have shifted since I was there on a visit last October. I had colleagues who were as anxious to see Thaksin go as I was and didn't particularly mind that it was a military coup that did it. My experience (and I spent a lot of time in Pakistan too) has been that no matter how frakked up a civilian government is, a military one is always worse. The army rarely much concerns itself with how shooting people will affect its image.

[toma1 10]

The army rarely much concerns itself with how shooting people will affect its image.

That's usually true, but the Thai army does see to be a bit different in that regard--at least as of the last decade. I don't think anyone was killed in that 2006 coup.

[symbiosis 0]

The army rarely much concerns itself with how shooting people will affect its image.

That's usually true, but the Thai army does see to be a bit different in that regard--at least as of the last decade. I don't think anyone was killed in that 2006 coup.

True, but the other axiom is that generals can't be trusted. Remember, before virtually every coup in Thailand, they promise they are not planning a coup.

[daboyz 36]

Can you imagine what would have happened here when Richard Nixon resigned in disgrace facing criminal charges, and then his brother in-law assumed the presidency? I'm not sticking up for the PAD, but come on. What did the PPP expect when they elected Somchai PM? It's almost like PPP wants this confrontation, or they wouldn't have elected Thaksin's brother in law. Surely they could've found someone a little more agreeable. I'm not saying that the PAD would've packed up and went home, but I doubt they would've went to this extreme.

[bill13060 0]

So with this all going on, Don't you think that even the poor people deserve the same rights as the "elite"? What Taksin did may have been wrong in some peoples eyes but i think it was better for the whole country. I don't know why the government can't control this. If we were to do things like this in the US, even your grand children would not be able to get a visa to go to disney land.

[daboyz 36]

My opinion. Take it for what it's worth. When the TRT/PPP go up to Isaan and pass out all kinds of money (loans I guess they call it,) it basically boils down to vote buying. I'd like to see the statistics of how many of those "loans" were actually paid back.

[symbiosis 0]

Can you imagine what would have happened here when Richard Nixon resigned in disgrace facing criminal charges, and then his brother in-law assumed the presidency? I'm not sticking up for the PAD, but come on. What did the PPP expect when they elected Somchai PM? It's almost like PPP wants this confrontation, or they wouldn't have elected Thaksin's brother in law. Surely they could've found someone a little more agreeable. I'm not saying that the PAD would've packed up and went home, but I doubt they would've went to this extreme.

Which brings me back to my original point: why does the PPP have back down at all? Because a vocal minority isn't happy with its lack of political clout? I believe in cooperation, but relenting to these folks is a moral hazard in that it encourages them to pour into the streets whenever they can't win at the ballot box. That's a dangerous precedent. Of course, new elections will solve nothing, as they did not in 2005, because the PPP very likely will be returned to office.

The only thing that would satisfy the PAD, in my opinion, is another military coup followed by Prime Minister Sondhi.

My opinion. Take it for what it's worth. When the TRT/PPP go up to Isaan and pass out all kinds of money (loans I guess they call it,) it basically boils down to vote buying. I'd like to see the statistics of how many of those "loans" were actually paid back.

As for vote buying, there's ample evidence that both sides do it. That doesn't make it right, but it's a fact.

[daboyz 36]

Can you imagine what would have happened here when Richard Nixon resigned in disgrace facing criminal charges, and then his brother in-law assumed the presidency? I'm not sticking up for the PAD, but come on. What did the PPP expect when they elected Somchai PM? It's almost like PPP wants this confrontation, or they wouldn't have elected Thaksin's brother in law. Surely they could've found someone a little more agreeable. I'm not saying that the PAD would've packed up and went home, but I doubt they would've went to this extreme.

Which brings me back to my original point: why does the PPP have back down at all? Because a vocal minority isn't happy with its lack of political clout? I believe in cooperation, but relenting to these folks is a moral hazard in that it encourages them to pour into the streets whenever they can't win at the ballot box. That's a dangerous precedent. Of course, new elections will solve nothing, as they did not in 2005, because the PPP very likely will be returned to office.

The only thing that would satisfy the PAD, in my opinion, is another military coup followed by Prime Minister Sondhi.

My opinion. Take it for what it's worth. When the TRT/PPP go up to Isaan and pass out all kinds of money (loans I guess they call it,) it basically boils down to vote buying. I'd like to see the statistics of how many of those "loans" were actually paid back.

As for vote buying, there's ample evidence that both sides do it. That doesn't make it right, but it's a fact.

I'm not saying the PPP should back down, but by electing Somchai as PM, that wasn't a very concillatory move on their part. It was very provocative. It basically proves the point that Thaksin is running things from exile. The election of Somchai as PM guaranteed this outcome. Believe me, I'm not sticking up for the PAD, but really they could've made a better choice.

[symbiosis 0]

Can you imagine what would have happened here when Richard Nixon resigned in disgrace facing criminal charges, and then his brother in-law assumed the presidency? I'm not sticking up for the PAD, but come on. What did the PPP expect when they elected Somchai PM? It's almost like PPP wants this confrontation, or they wouldn't have elected Thaksin's brother in law. Surely they could've found someone a little more agreeable. I'm not saying that the PAD would've packed up and went home, but I doubt they would've went to this extreme.

Which brings me back to my original point: why does the PPP have back down at all? Because a vocal minority isn't happy with its lack of political clout? I believe in cooperation, but relenting to these folks is a moral hazard in that it encourages them to pour into the streets whenever they can't win at the ballot box. That's a dangerous precedent. Of course, new elections will solve nothing, as they did not in 2005, because the PPP very likely will be returned to office.

The only thing that would satisfy the PAD, in my opinion, is another military coup followed by Prime Minister Sondhi.

My opinion. Take it for what it's worth. When the TRT/PPP go up to Isaan and pass out all kinds of money (loans I guess they call it,) it basically boils down to vote buying. I'd like to see the statistics of how many of those "loans" were actually paid back.

As for vote buying, there's ample evidence that both sides do it. That doesn't make it right, but it's a fact.

I'm not saying the PPP should back down, but by electing Somchai as PM, that wasn't a very concillatory move on their part. It was very provocative. It basically proves the point that Thaksin is running things from exile. The election of Somchai as PM guaranteed this outcome. Believe me, I'm not sticking up for the PAD, but really they could've made a better choice.

It seems clear that PAD would not back down, after all Samak was no relation to Thaksin and his forced ouster (ostensibly by the courts, but after massive PAD protests) is the reason Somchai is PM in the first place. That's why I say they won't be satisfied until the PPP is gone.

[daboyz 36]

Can you imagine what would have happened here when Richard Nixon resigned in disgrace facing criminal charges, and then his brother in-law assumed the presidency? I'm not sticking up for the PAD, but come on. What did the PPP expect when they elected Somchai PM? It's almost like PPP wants this confrontation, or they wouldn't have elected Thaksin's brother in law. Surely they could've found someone a little more agreeable. I'm not saying that the PAD would've packed up and went home, but I doubt they would've went to this extreme.

Which brings me back to my original point: why does the PPP have back down at all? Because a vocal minority isn't happy with its lack of political clout? I believe in cooperation, but relenting to these folks is a moral hazard in that it encourages them to pour into the streets whenever they can't win at the ballot box. That's a dangerous precedent. Of course, new elections will solve nothing, as they did not in 2005, because the PPP very likely will be returned to office.

The only thing that would satisfy the PAD, in my opinion, is another military coup followed by Prime Minister Sondhi.

My opinion. Take it for what it's worth. When the TRT/PPP go up to Isaan and pass out all kinds of money (loans I guess they call it,) it basically boils down to vote buying. I'd like to see the statistics of how many of those "loans" were actually paid back.

As for vote buying, there's ample evidence that both sides do it. That doesn't make it right, but it's a fact.

I'm not saying the PPP should back down, but by electing Somchai as PM, that wasn't a very concillatory move on their part. It was very provocative. It basically proves the point that Thaksin is running things from exile. The election of Somchai as PM guaranteed this outcome. Believe me, I'm not sticking up for the PAD, but really they could've made a better choice.

It seems clear that PAD would not back down, after all Samak was no relation to Thaksin and his forced ouster (ostensibly by the courts, but after massive PAD protests) is the reason Somchai is PM in the first place. That's why I say they won't be satisfied until the PPP is gone.

I think Samak was just as big a proxy for Thaksin as Somchai is today. I find Thaksin to be a VERY selfish man with his phone call-ins etc. He's a convicted criminal. And I'm sure he'll be convicted again. I'm tired of hearing his "woe is me" line about how he was railroaded. That Ratchadaphisek land deal, is crystal clear. Nothing ambiguous about that. Also, the fact he sold a good portion of Thailand's telecom assets to the govt. of Singapore, makes me think he's a little more concerned about money than the welfare of the Thai people. Anyway, not sure why I'm so concerned about all this. My wife doesn't seem to care much. I guess as long as the airport is open by the time I go to bring back my wife, that should be my only concern. I guess the U.S. has enough of it's own problems. I should probably worry about those.

[*Robert* 2]

On the bright side... the US Dollar is growing stronger against the Thai Baht!

Would love to see 40 to 1 again!

[symbiosis 0]

I think Samak was just as big a proxy for Thaksin as Somchai is today.

Well, then, I guess that makes my point. Who could the PPP appoint that wouldn't be perceived by the PAD as a Thaksin "proxy"? I suspect there's no right answer.

I find Thaksin to be a VERY selfish man with his phone call-ins etc. He's a convicted criminal. And I'm sure he'll be convicted again. I'm tired of hearing his "woe is me" line about how he was railroaded. That Ratchadaphisek land deal, is crystal clear. Nothing ambiguous about that.

Hey, he's a rich man in Thailand. That guarantees corruption.

Also, the fact he sold a good portion of Thailand's telecom assets to the govt. of Singapore, makes me think he's a little more concerned about money than the welfare of the Thai people.

Well, ostensibly it was his business to sell. And I haven't seen a Thai politician yet (and very few anywhere else) that did have the welfare of the people in mind.

Anyway, not sure why I'm so concerned about all this. My wife doesn't seem to care much. I guess as long as the airport is open by the time I go to bring back my wife, that should be my only concern. I guess the U.S. has enough of it's own problems. I should probably worry about those.

I'm in exactly the same situation.

[symbiosis 0]

... and Sondhi is far from Mr. Clean either.