SAWASDEE 2

[toma1 10]

I'm in Yuma, Arizona.

Next time you get to Thailand jump on an Air Asia flight to Kota Kinabalu on Borneo (you will probably have to fly through KL first) and climb Mt. Kinabalu. The climbing fee is not outrageous, but you are required to hire a mountain guide. The total vertical climb (from base camp to summit) is about 2/3 the vertical distance of Everest (from base camp to summit), but without the deep freeze. It's still quite cold at the top, but normal ski-type clothing is enough to get you by. If you like that kind of thing you will LOVE this--it was one of the coolest things I've ever done. The mountain is the fourth tallest in Southeast Asia and the world's 20th most prominent peak. (K2 is 22nd!)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_peaks_by_prominence

Edited November 21, 2008 by toma1

[eric_f 0]

I'll check it out, thanks!

[birch- phuk_beer 0]

I'm in Yuma, Arizona.

Next time you get to Thailand jump on an Air Asia flight to Kota Kinabalu on Borneo (you will probably have to fly through KL first) and climb Mt. Kinabalu. The climbing fee is not outrageous, but you are required to hire a mountain guide. The total vertical climb (from base camp to summit) is about 2/3 the vertical distance of Everest (from base camp to summit), but without the deep freeze. It's still quite cold at the top, but normal ski-type clothing is enough to get you by. If you like that kind of thing you will LOVE this--it was one of the coolest things I've ever done. The mountain is the fourth tallest in Southeast Asia and the world's 20th most prominent peak. (K2 is 22nd!)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_peaks_by_prominence

after getting caught up on my sawadee thread reading (6 pages), its a nice topic here.

Kota Kinabalu is on my list.

Heres me (in red) and 2 buddies at everest.

[eric_f 0]

The highest peak I've been on is Mt. Ranier in my home state of Washington. (number 21 ) There's a lot to take in there. In Thailand, we climbed a 'mountain' near her home that had no trails except for the first couple hundred feet or so where the cows went. That took almost a whole day but according to the GPS we only covered 2000 feet. It was almost too miserable having to deal with the brush lol. The picture doesn't do it much justice It was so weeded in that this was the best shot I could get. I pulled the hammock out of my pack, strung it up, and we spent the night!

No tigers for us luckily

Edited November 22, 2008 by eric_f

[symbiosis 0]

I'd much rather have my fiancee get the vaccines in Thailand to get them out of the way. One less thing to worry about and it's about $200 all said and done with the medical exam. I'm pretty sure she'd feel better about getting them in her home country as well because if anyone had to stick me in Thailand you'd better believe unless it's life or death they can forget it!

I guess you haven't had much opportunity to see Thailand's OUTSTANDING medical facilities! I had elective eye surgery in Thailand. Bumrungrad hospital is like a 5-star hotel. A bell-boy even checks your luggage at the door. The physicians are excellent, the prices are lower and the service is better than in the states. I highly recommend it.

That said, my fiancee trained as a registered nurse, and is now a key account manager for the largest stem cell banking company in Asia, so she's pretty familiar with the nuances of medical care around the world. We talked about this and she wasn't concerned at all about having the vaccines here.

Also, the closest ob/gyn to my house happens to be a Thai woman!

I'd take my chances at Bumrangrad any day compared to most of the facilities I have seen in the states!!

[symbiosis 0]

I'm in Yuma, Arizona.

Next time you get to Thailand jump on an Air Asia flight to Kota Kinabalu on Borneo (you will probably have to fly through KL first) and climb Mt. Kinabalu. The climbing fee is not outrageous, but you are required to hire a mountain guide. The total vertical climb (from base camp to summit) is about 2/3 the vertical distance of Everest (from base camp to summit), but without the deep freeze. It's still quite cold at the top, but normal ski-type clothing is enough to get you by. If you like that kind of thing you will LOVE this--it was one of the coolest things I've ever done. The mountain is the fourth tallest in Southeast Asia and the world's 20th most prominent peak. (K2 is 22nd!)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_peaks_by_prominence

Man, I love Borneo. It's the most beautiful place I've ever seen! Get there quick, though, before it becomes just one giant palm oil plantation!

[*Robert* 2]

Just wanted to let everyone here know that Rin and the children had their nterview today in Memphis. Took about 15 minutes for the interview. The officer swore Rin and I in, asked to see originals of passports, EAD, driver's licenses, birth certificates, and marriage certificates (compared each to the copy in his folders). Asked how we met; asked each child their birthdate and birthplace; then for any information on house contracts, life insurance, medical insurance, etc. That was about it.

Told us we were approved then printed a sheet of paper indicating approval and that the GC (10 year as we have been married just over two years) would be mailed to our home.

No more USCIS! (well at least until naturalization)

John

Congratulaltions Rin & John!!!

So wish we could have gone straight to the 10 yr GC!

Now only 3 years till Naturalization for you two!

[*Robert* 2]

Like Birch-Beer, had a lot of reading to catch up on. You guys have been regular chatty Cathy's lately!

Sorry I missed the discussion on Sin Sod, because that is a topic I enjoy discussing.

I saw a lot of VERY high amounts mentioned, and a lot of money being thrown around by some, and no money by others (you know who you are!!! )

It always bothers me when I hear, or see, Farangs spending large amounts of money in Thailand, because it just adds credence to Thai beliefs that all Farang are wealthy, which I think most of us will agree, is NOT the case!

Remember that 9 is a lucky number to Thai people. Giving a Sin Sod of say 199,999 Baht, would be a very nice amount, along with presenting your bride-to-be 9 baht of gold. Gold is an investment, especially Thai gold, which tends to be the best gold you can buy. Many families will take the Sin Sod, purchase land or something else, and then give back to the couple. It the parents keep the whole amount to themselves, I would worry about their motives. Now days Sin Sod is meant to be mostly symbolic and to ensure that the happy couple starts of on the right foot.

Most Thai people will tell you that when you give something, you have to give it from your heart, and give what you feel appropriate, or what you can afford. If you give because you feel you have to, or that it is expected, then it doesn’t carry the same meaning. If you can’t afford a Sin Sod, then you can’t afford one. If you can, don’t give an obscene amount just to impress everyone, because that is not the purpose of Sin Sod. Remember the Thai culture of Geng Jai. If you don’t know what it is, I highly recommend you look it up!

This is not directed at anyone on here, I just want to express an opinion. I feel that if someone is not going to respect the culture of the person they want to marry, then they should find someone from a culture that they will. I have never understood why a western man would marry an Asian woman, and then try to change her into someone different, aka “Westernize” her. Once again… just my opinion.

[daboyz 36]

Like Birch-Beer, had a lot of reading to catch up on. You guys have been regular chatty Cathy's lately!

Sorry I missed the discussion on Sin Sod, because that is a topic I enjoy discussing.

I saw a lot of VERY high amounts mentioned, and a lot of money being thrown around by some, and no money by others (you know who you are!!! )

It always bothers me when I hear, or see, Farangs spending large amounts of money in Thailand, because it just adds credence to Thai beliefs that all Farang are wealthy, which I think most of us will agree, is NOT the case!

Remember that 9 is a lucky number to Thai people. Giving a Sin Sod of say 199,999 Baht, would be a very nice amount, along with presenting your bride-to-be 9 baht of gold. Gold is an investment, especially Thai gold, which tends to be the best gold you can buy. Many families will take the Sin Sod, purchase land or something else, and then give back to the couple. It the parents keep the whole amount to themselves, I would worry about their motives. Now days Sin Sod is meant to be mostly symbolic and to ensure that the happy couple starts of on the right foot.

Most Thai people will tell you that when you give something, you have to give it from your heart, and give what you feel appropriate, or what you can afford. If you give because you feel you have to, or that it is expected, then it doesn’t carry the same meaning. If you can’t afford a Sin Sod, then you can’t afford one. If you can, don’t give an obscene amount just to impress everyone, because that is not the purpose of Sin Sod. Remember the Thai culture of Geng Jai. If you don’t know what it is, I highly recommend you look it up!

This is not directed at anyone on here, I just want to express an opinion. I feel that if someone is not going to respect the culture of the person they want to marry, then they should find someone from a culture that they will. I have never understood why a western man would marry an Asian woman, and then try to change her into someone different, aka “Westernize” her. Once again… just my opinion.

Very nice post.

[AaronLV 12]

This is not directed at anyone on here, I just want to express an opinion. I feel that if someone is not going to respect the culture of the person they want to marry, then they should find someone from a culture that they will. I have never understood why a western man would marry an Asian woman, and then try to change her into someone different, aka “Westernize” her. Once again… just my opinion.

Very well put, and have to completely agree.

[ThaitoUSA 15]

If someone does not respect someone else's culture, it's a strong likelihood that person shall not truly respect any culture. The disrespectful individual shall continue to disrespect in the East or West, North and South: considering that a majority of the world's population does not respect i.e. value all other life, we'll continue to see all sorts of disrespect. Haha, try telling a disrespectful person to have some more respect, that's comical. Respect is not the same thing as liking. I can respect every culture, yet have preferences for certain ones. Perhaps this is to what you were referring roi_aggie, that if one does not like certain traits of another culture e.g. sin sot, it would be preferrable to choose a more compatible culture.

Another point is that some Thai women do wish to become Westernized, just as I had wished to become more 'Thai-like' while living there. I did not abandon my Western/Traditional American values, rather I assimilated Thai ones. My fiancee has had a great interest in Western culture, long before she ever met a westerner none alone visited a Western country. Your point, roi_aggie, is well made that it is irresponsible to force anything, such as one's culture, on anyone else, but I don't see any wrong in those who are actively interested in learning and becoming more Western.

kreng jai (เกรงใจ) could be translated as considerate or respectful, but might be better understood as deference; humble submission. Often I noticed Thai practice kreng jai out of fear of losing face, fear of offence, etc. It has been only the most graceful Thai who did so from true humility.

These are interesting and enjoyable conversations for me as well, because they make explicit that which is continually operating implicitly i.e. one's values, principles, and one's personal meaning of all things. This sort of self-examination allows for compassionately honest appraisal rather than righteous judgement.

[daboyz 36]

If someone does not respect someone else's culture, it's a strong likelihood that person shall not truly respect any culture. The disrespectful individual shall continue to disrespect in the East or West, North and South: considering that a majority of the world's population does not respect i.e. value all other life, we'll continue to see all sorts of disrespect. Haha, try telling a disrespectful person to have some more respect, that's comical. Respect is not the same thing as liking. I can respect every culture, yet have preferences for certain ones. Perhaps this is to what you were referring roi_aggie, that if one does not like certain traits of another culture e.g. sin sot, it would be preferrable to choose a more compatible culture.

Another point is that some Thai women do wish to become Westernized, just as I had wished to become more 'Thai-like' while living there. I did not abandon my Western/Traditional American values, rather I assimilated Thai ones. My fiancee has had a great interest in Western culture, long before she ever met a westerner none alone visited a Western country. Your point, roi_aggie, is well made that it is irresponsible to force anything, such as one's culture, on anyone else, but I don't see any wrong in those who are actively interested in learning and becoming more Western.

kreng jai (เกรงใจ) could be translated as considerate or respectful, but might be better understood as deference; humble submission. Often I noticed Thai practice kreng jai out of fear of losing face, fear of offence, etc. It has been only the most graceful Thai who did so from true humility.

These are interesting and enjoyable conversations for me as well, because they make explicit that which is continually operating implicitly i.e. one's values, principles, and one's personal meaning of all things. This sort of self-examination allows for compassionately honest appraisal rather than righteous judgement.

Are you a college professor? Joking.

[rin and john 71]

This is not directed at anyone on here, I just want to express an opinion. I feel that if someone is not going to respect the culture of the person they want to marry, then they should find someone from a culture that they will. I have never understood why a western man would marry an Asian woman, and then try to change her into someone different, aka "Westernize" her. Once again… just my opinion.

Roi_aggie,

Well said. I agree wholeheartedly!

Our biggest concern is the "westernization" of her children (ages 7,9, and 12) and the potential loss of their "Thainess".

John

p.s. Thanks to all on the congrats!

[*Robert* 2]

Pete, thanks for elaborating on some of my points. You are correct that a disrespectful person tends to stay that way! It is more correct to say that if someone completely disagrees with or finds certain aspects of a particular culture unappealing, then they should move on.

I am also in agreement with you concerning free will. As you pointed out, certain people like to adapt to new cultures, and that is great, as long as it is their choice.

That brings up another point. Some people, mostly guys, will often get upset when they discover their new bride IS changing, and becoming more westernized. They need to be aware that that possibility exists, and that by exposing a foreigner to Western ways can often time change that person. If you don’t want them to change, then don’t bring them to the US!

As for me, I personally love everything about Thailand, the people, the food, the culture, and the “religion”. I can’t wait till I can retire and move to Thailand permanently. My first exposure to Thailand was back in 1968 as a young boy, and I have been in love with Thailand ever since. Whether I was married to a Thai woman or not, I would still want to live there. One of my old Navy buddies has lived there the last 20 years, and I’m jealous!

Here in the US, my wife and I live mostly observing Thai customs. We speak a mixture of both Thai and English, we eat mostly Thai food, and we observe Thai Buddhist principals and teachings. She has been here for over two years, and we can’t wait to go back to Thailand, once we have her 10 yr GC in hand. (Which we should have already received, but thanks to the VSC, it is taking approximately 10 months, so we have another 7 months to wait!)

Thanks daboyz, AaronLV and rin and john for your nice comments!

[*Robert* 2]

Our biggest concern is the "westernization" of her children (ages 7,9, and 12) and the potential loss of their "Thainess".

John

John, I can tell you from direct experience with three Thai sisters (ages 8, 10, and 15), that their westernization is both inevitable and necessary, for them to fit-in, survive, and adapt to US schools and the US education system. Only the oldest girl can still speak Thai, but probably not as well as she could, and can’t read or write Thai anymore. She has a hard enough time reading and writing English, that trying to keep her fluent in Thai is just not feasible. As for the younger two, other than the fact they look Thai, they might as well be Farangs! The 10 yo doesn’t even like going back to Thailand anymore, and it is really sad to see that, but she is an extremely bright and intelligent girl, so what can you say?

It is always hardest on the 1^st generation of immigrants, and they will typically push away their ethnic culture and background, in order to better fit in. It is the 2^nd generation that tries to rekindle with their roots.

So basically John, you can’t fight it, but only help them adjust and fit into their new surroundings. All you can do is try to make sure that they never look down on, or are embarrassed of, where they come from.