SAWASDEE 2

[HYENA 4]

I just plain need someone to negotiate but I know no one. I never have shown outward signs of wealth...cause I can't! LOL!

Forgive my many typos (it's dark usually when I'm typing and this doesn't let you edit after a period of time)

Oh, I'm all up and running with Schwab now (thanks)!

Hey, did I mention the wait time is killing me?

Edited November 15, 2008 by HYENA

[daboyz 36]

Personally I wouldn't pay 1 baht for any of that. When the family needs some THB, you help them out. As soon as they see a farang involved, they see $. Ask them how much it would be if they married a Thai man. My first girlfriend in Thailand tried to hit me up for 100k. Thank god I didn't go for that. My wife's family hasn't asked me for anything, except to take care of their daughter. If they do ask me, I would definitely help them. They never ask. They are poor rice farmers in Si Sa Ket. All this craziness about paying baht. I would visit the stickman site. Read up there. People may say I'm Kee Neow. So be it.

[toma1 10]

I live near Baltimore.

I figured out why the sin sod regardless of her status, past, etc. She bought land and has a loan on it. I forgot all about this. It's somewhere near 100k (less, now) to pay if off. Buying land in Isaan (in my opinion) is stupid because the cost of it would not pay for itself by the time you died, it seems. I believe she wants to get rid of that burden when she comes here. She's insisting sin sod happens for prev married folk...then keeping up with the Jones'es (maybe her neighbors were prev married and got it starting a local thing) BUT it's not like she's never been married, etc. In reading books, I do understand sin sod equates to a family's status and the worth of their daughter. She's got low self esteem being poor, etc so maybe she's hoping it would be higher to make it seem she's more desirable. On the other hand, I don't want to be wronged or taken advantage of, either.

I've been told many times sin sod isn't paid twice but here she is sayign yes, in our case it is paid..but when asked, she says forget about it, pai penrai. This wishy washy Thai (culture) is like getting blood out of a turnip. I'm used to frank, open discussions. I think an intermediary would be good (unbiased) but where in her entire village would I find such a person? Also, how would she save face saying she's been with XXX d (apparently that figures into the calculations). Yes I think it would be FAIR to bring someone in to negotiate on my behalf....got any time...whatchya doing in Feb???? LOL!

Only coming from my culture, it's no one's business but I also understand sin sod is everyone's business up there. Would they be offended if I brought someone in to negotiate? Also, do our discussions we've already had regarding this---in the modern era, are these considered the negotiations? I'm so darn confused because "by the book" I should pay nothing for a couple reasons. Also, it would be nice to know exactly how much family support I'd be sending. The fly by the seat of your pants (their culture) versus financial planning (my culture) is clashing big time! She also said when the amount is announced, she'd add up all I've given her for support already (which is a lot). I know she wants to help her family because they really can't go any lower so her position is understandable...I jsut don't know. I don't want either side feeling they've been cheated.

I'll be in Las Vegas in Feb and Guatemala in March, so I'm out. haha

You definitely have a lot to think about.

I would completely throw out ego here. Forget about who's taking advantage of whom. If what they ask is a small thing for you, just pay it. You'll get a lot of good will and (I know it's weird, but) your wife will love you for it. But if it is going to cause you financial hardship, then you need to negotiate.

What does this mean, I don't understand what you meant to write: "Also, how would she save face saying she's been with XXX d"

I can't speak about your specific inlaws, but no Thai should be offended if you have a negotiator, because that is NORMAL. If you were Thai, your parents would do it. If you parents are not available, it would be an older family member or friend. It should be someone near in age to her parents.

I can't say whether your current discussions were negotiations because I don't know what was said. I guess if you already agreed to an amount, then yes. If not then, I think you can continue to negotiate.

Finally, if they really just want to save face, they can agree to give some of the dowry back as a wedding gift. This is VERY common now. They announce a huge dowry and you some of the money back the next day. Everyone's happy!

<<Also, it would be nice to know exactly how much family support I'd be sending.>>

HAHAHAAHA... not gonna happen.

[hilton 0]

Working...

She went to work at McDonalds yesterday supposedly the coffee maker but one she arrived, she said she was lugging around heavy heavy bags of fries (and she's stong as an ox) and deep frying them. She said her hands are all sore and red now (likely grease splatter). Apparently there are no safe work conditions over there. I told her she can quit (I told her not to bother but if she must, give it a run).

She's looked for jobs but no luck. If only she could find a decent job but no high school and minimal computer but OK english (enough to communicate and understand most everything minus a few words we work around) she's pretty competent.

She's a hard worker but just can't land a decent job.... No wonder so many want to leave. Her niece is getting 50 cents an hour at McDonalds.

Hey, did I say the wait was KILLING ME?????? grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

So my confusion is no sin sod from what I understand but she said it would be better me being farang, etc. I think I'll find a happy medium... maybe 100k they pay for wedding with that and I bu 3 baht of gold. That seems easier to swallow, I guess. During the negotiations, I'll go in and ask what the tradition is, then I'll hear the honest answer. I think they'll be easy on me. I understand she wants max for her family but at the same time she feels horrible I have to pay and it's only me (since with farang families, every man for himself with no one in my family giving a rip).

She said if I don't have it, don't worry...her coming here is most important. I want to be sure everyone is happy and I don't make them feel low.

Now if she can only find some kind of job...working at a restaurant or something. WIth the low pay, even the bus cuts into profits a great deal given the low wages there. She did the sweat shop thing for 6 years.. I dunno...it tires me....

I guess it's not uncommon to charge farang a bit more. Do you have ANY Thai friend that is OLDER than you (close to her parents age) that could negotiate for you? That's perfectly OK if you do! It's normal and keeps you above the fray. Otherwise don't negotiate TOO hard, but also avoid any outward displays of wealth.

What city do you live in?

Its all about what you can afford... don't be pressured to pay something thats going to hurt you just explain to her this is all I can afford and she will understand and she will let her family know. 100k and 3baht gold is reasonable, you/they have to take into consideration how you have already helped out each month and in the future.. when my cousin got married to his Thai gf it started out real hi and then after some talk it came down to about the 100k 3 baht gold and food and drink for the wedding. and thats how it was for my fieance and my self. the only differance is my fiance's parrents gave the money back to us thats the option they have which was nice on their part they didn't have to they could have kept the money.

[hilton 0]

hi evrybody !

my fiance arrived here on oct 29, we were married on nov. 8

and all is well.

question on the new medical exam for TB

i hear there is some place to get it done for free,

like at the health department. we have no health insurance now, so it would help us.

any ideas?

thanks!

Hi Jer

Congratulations on your marriage! Give your local health department a call and ask them what they charge, if anything. Often times they will use a sliding scale and some do do it for free. They can also give any needed immunizations and give you official documentation. It still has to be transcribed by a civil surgeon onto the USCIS's form, though. There's been info from others on this site about a doc who will sign off if you fax or mail the documents to them in Texas for about $20 or so.

Thai Mom

Udate

well she went back to the embassy and she gave them her and her daughters passports and all they said was they will call her when it ready. I guess they have to put the visa's in their passports, but that shouldn't be a big deal and shouldn'take very long???? anyone have any thoughts on this? AND.... how do you guys read this email from the embassy??

Dear Sir:

Thank you for your email. The IV Unit is now processing the K-1 visa for Ms. Suphan at the moment. Please allow some days. Once the visa is issued and ready for pick up, we will contact the applicant by telephone as soon as possible.

Regards,

Correspondence Unit"

I'm being paranoid I guess

[bill13060 0]

I just plain need someone to negotiate but I know no one. I never have shown outward signs of wealth...cause I can't! LOL!

Forgive my many typos (it's dark usually when I'm typing and this doesn't let you edit after a period of time)

Oh, I'm all up and running with Schwab now (thanks)!

Hey, did I mention the wait time is killing me?

Paying a dowery isn't all that bad if you can afford it. They could probably use it and 100,000 baht is not really that high or low of a dowery. It will make everybody feel good and you have to ask yourself how important your future wife is to you and what she will think of herself if you don't pay a dowery. Thai culture is what it is and your the farang in this whole deal. My wife has the same education and probably the same skills as your GF but her family is high on the totem pole in the town. Did i have a problem with paying a dowery? Yes i did, but i paid it so everyone is happy and her mother loves me.

What you have to watch out for is who ever is planning your wedding party, they will take you to the cleaners. It happened to me. My wife said she wanted a medium size party, yeah right. My wifes uncle thought he had a blank check when he started ordering stuff for our party. Really pissed me off because i was told one set price for everything and it was probably triple.

What really gets me is her family makes her pay half of the bills because i'm sending her money so she does not have to work in the rice fields. They have 6 grownups living in the house. Most work in the fields but her sister(teacher) and brother in law(government figure in the province) have pretty good jobs. I just don't understand why she has to pay half of the bills. I'm not really that fond of my wifes sister(teacher) because of some of the comments she made to me about money. So my thinking is that she is a money grubbing wench. well i better stop before i really get going on this stuff.

Oh, the time is killing me to. Can't even wait until i get NOA2.

[George-Joom 0]

Udate

well she went back to the embassy and she gave them her and her daughters passports and all they said was they will call her when it ready. I guess they have to put the visa's in their passports, but that shouldn't be a big deal and shouldn'take very long???? anyone have any thoughts on this? AND.... how do you guys read this email from the embassy??

Dear Sir:

Thank you for your email. The IV Unit is now processing the K-1 visa for Ms. Suphan at the moment. Please allow some days. Once the visa is issued and ready for pick up, we will contact the applicant by telephone as soon as possible.

Regards,

Correspondence Unit"

I'm being paranoid I guess

They kept Joom's passport for 2 days to insert the Visa.

As for the email it sounds like they are processing the visa and attaching it to the passport...

Your fiancee got through the interview ok?

Is Ms Suphan your fiancee or her daughter?

[George-Joom 0]

Hi Everybody!!

Speaking of visas...I am working on the I-485 and the question is.........

......"Nonimmigrant Visa Number"

Is that the Control Number (14 digits) printed in black ink? or

the number (8 digits) looks like in red on the visa itself????

Thanks for your help

George and Joom

[rin and john 71]

Hi Everybody!!

Speaking of visas...I am working on the I-485 and the question is.........

......"Nonimmigrant Visa Number"

Is that the Control Number (14 digits) printed in black ink? or

the number (8 digits) looks like in red on the visa itself????

Thanks for your help

George and Joom

George - It's the red number. See pic in the VJ gallery.

http://www.visajourney.com/gallery/display...um=19&pos=1

John

[toma1 10]

I just plain need someone to negotiate but I know no one. I never have shown outward signs of wealth...cause I can't! LOL!

Forgive my many typos (it's dark usually when I'm typing and this doesn't let you edit after a period of time)

Oh, I'm all up and running with Schwab now (thanks)!

Hey, did I mention the wait time is killing me?

Paying a dowery isn't all that bad if you can afford it. They could probably use it and 100,000 baht is not really that high or low of a dowery. It will make everybody feel good and you have to ask yourself how important your future wife is to you and what she will think of herself if you don't pay a dowery. Thai culture is what it is and your the farang in this whole deal. My wife has the same education and probably the same skills as your GF but her family is high on the totem pole in the town. Did i have a problem with paying a dowery? Yes i did, but i paid it so everyone is happy and her mother loves me.

What you have to watch out for is who ever is planning your wedding party, they will take you to the cleaners. It happened to me. My wife said she wanted a medium size party, yeah right. My wifes uncle thought he had a blank check when he started ordering stuff for our party. Really pissed me off because i was told one set price for everything and it was probably triple.

What really gets me is her family makes her pay half of the bills because i'm sending her money so she does not have to work in the rice fields. They have 6 grownups living in the house. Most work in the fields but her sister(teacher) and brother in law(government figure in the province) have pretty good jobs. I just don't understand why she has to pay half of the bills. I'm not really that fond of my wifes sister(teacher) because of some of the comments she made to me about money. So my thinking is that she is a money grubbing wench. well i better stop before i really get going on this stuff.

Oh, the time is killing me to. Can't even wait until i get NOA2.

I agree with ALL of that. Very good advice. Even weddings in Thailand can be expensive. We hired a BKK wedding planner, and if I told you how much we spent you would choke. LOL. But you don't have to negotiate that. Just tell them how much you are willing to contribute and say, "that's how much I am willing to spend, if you want to spend more, you will have to find the money elsewhere." No need to negoiate at all.

[ThaitoUSA 15]

Most work in the fields but her sister(teacher) and brother in law(government figure in the province) have pretty good jobs.

Relative to working in fields, these job certainly do earn a significantly higher salary. But just to give you an idea of what a Thai teacher generally earns, after 7 years and a Master's degree, my fiancee only makes about 11,000 Baht a month teaching. That's compared to the 40,000 Baht a month I earned as a professor after only four years and just a Bachelor's. She also works double the hours that I did.

[HYENA 4]

Thanks to the PM's I received. Regarding the Sin Sod and cultural things I knew but was venting here, I understand their point of view now and have been reminded of my difficulties given the millenia separate cultural differences and need to keep being reminded 'till I've got it second nature. Although hardly true Buddhist principles, Thais are ALL ABOUT ego, saving face and what everybody thinks, I keep reverting back to the Buddhist, not Thai thinking. I need to remember Thais have their own Buddhism not typical of what's taught by Monks, etc. (how's that for run on sentences)?

So my conclusion- If I pay something (although I shouldn't given circumstances), the family will gain face and their daughter will have increased her worth, therefore the family's worth in everybody else's eyes. Paying sin sod again would mean she's worthy of such a tradition break and it would not remind the family of her true status, but elevate it...LOS being land of appearances, the appearance would be beneficial paying a normal sin sod and what it would mean to the family and nam jai for doing so.

She has gone to work (not something she's done in some time) at less than a dollar an hour...very hard work, mind you (McDonald's doesn't have worker's safety and abuse their staff like everyone else). She likely is doing this to contribute to her own sin sod for reasons above since she knows I'm not made of money and knows her sin sod worth. Perhaps she's wanting to make her own money for something to me for the ceremony, who knows? I do like she's trying, though...I had my doubts earlier.

The family goal is to minimize the wedding and maximize sin sod because they need it so badly. Having said that, this is a joyous occasion they want to celebrate likely "doing it the right way" this time, sin sod, marry a farang and happy ending and all while reinforcing their daughter is higher status than previously viewed and everyone leaves feeling good about it.

I think she's agonizing between max benefit to her family with minimum pain for me/us/our future. It turns out that sin sod really is village dependent, as it varies greatly within the framework of customs and laws surrounding it (some, few, really do do it twice to some extent).

I plan to go in and negotiate, come up with a lower number then pay a higher amount as a gesture... I'll not worry about getting any back...I'll just leave it at that. It will be a "good for you, good for me/us" amount. She'd like her mom to have a 2 baht gold necklace since she owns no gold (sold it all every time it's been given, hopefully I can help prevent circumstances that would liquidate this one). I'd like to add some she'd likely keep just because brown skin looks so nice against gold (she's NOT materialistic but I think she'd love it).

Next problem: Bacteria fish (I jokingly call the rotten sludge poured over papaya salad)...if she can find some here (she says it will never taste the same but we can try to doctor up what we can find). 6 month old fish slurry that smells and only an Isaan palate can appreciate (train as I might, I cannot develop the taste for it). We'll have to find a place in the US that sells bags of it (left out in the heat...ripe and smelly like they like it)! I'm willing to tolerate the smell here (she asked and was concerned in advance) if it makes her happy...and try myself to continue to develop a taste for it once my intestines can handle the hot without having an emergency!

I see both sides of the coin now and MY sin sod will be for face saving/elevating reasons...and it's nothing I wouldn't do for them anyway...just a nice occasion to do it at once. If I believed I was paying for a bride, then I wouldn't do it...so this is my tithe...how's that!

I've been obsessing over the June and July NOA2's...mine could come now to 2 months...Oyyyy! Mai dee jing jing!

Hey, did I say I was tired of waiting for my NOA2???

[daboyz 36]

Don't pay anything. 0 Baht. You're giving her a future she would never have. Don't get sucked in to this. My opinion. Take it for what it is worth. You are going to be supporting her family for the rest of your life. Agree to help them out when they need it, and leave it at that.

[daboyz 36]

Ignore my previous posts. I asked my wife about this. I guess they just felt sorry for me. I was broke and unemployed in Bangkok. At the end of the day, they just wanted their daughter to be happy.

[eric_f 0]

Oh man, when I first started up my fiancee's food vending business, her sister was helping her and she had the wisdom to cook up a pot of baa laa in our kitchen at 0430. I about woke up barfing and choking on the fumes. Needless to say, that never happened again I am glad I left her something to earn some baht and to keep her busy. 1,000 baht a day is not uncommon after expenses, but it is a long day's work. (dawn-dusk, maybe longer) I thought I was the first farang in Thailand shoestringing papaya until someone mentioned to me there was a movie or something about it.

Oh, and don't let your wife mention that she is married to a foreigner to anyone that could possibly take extra money for knowing so. Often times, I'll sit outside near the motorbike somewhere and when she's settled on a price for said expensive thing, she'll call me and I'll stroll up. The storekeepers get a kick out of that one. Once her landlord found out about us, even in a long-distance relationship, rent jumped 4,000 more a month for "bogus expenses." My fiancee pays for the home with income from the food stand. I'm the biggest penny pincher you'll meet, and not wealthy by no means; I'm in the Marine Corps... so you had best believe what words I wanted to have with that fellow. However, I would be making a grave mistake in doing so When I'm in Thailand, I'm very flexible and go-with-the-flow until someone tries to hustle my wife for being married to a farang.