SAWASDEE 2

[HYENA 4]

"We could not process your request. Please select at least one account type." (when I just tried to open a Schwab account), even though I chose an account type--nothing but errors so I'll have to call them tomorrow. I looked...didn't see how much your sin sod was but I saw 4 stacks or so and a few kilo's of gold (LOL)!

From what I understand, my amount would be little based on Thai standards (no education, previous marriage, low social standing but good heart). I think it will be reasonable. I just don't want to do wrong and on the other end I don't want to hurt afterward. She also said my supporting her since April counts in the announced amount ( makes no sense for her to work her butt off for 50 cents to a dollar an hour when she helps by buying and shipping things I sell here) but technically for visa purposes, that's not a job (but it's OUR business-I remind her, not MINE now).... I'm just hoping my NOA2 will come in December 'cause that will trigger my plane ticket purchase and future planning. It's killing me not to go there now but she's telling me not to spend the money and to wait...driving me absolutely nuts nuts nuts! I'm practicing my thai best I can. I had a blast staying at her (no windows, no ac no running water inside) house last time I went. Reminded me of sleeping in a barn outside. People there (for the most part) are very kind, gracious and...poor (some have food buying problems, but it that way). We did repay some debts (small) when I visited because her family didn't have food and their neighbors got them through. Different world over there, but it grows on you...I love it!

Edited November 11, 2008 by HYENA

[toma1 10]

Hi Everyone,

I wanted to let you all know my fiancee and I got our noa2 oct23! Now it is on to the next step of waiting. I feel we are ahead we just got medical and police report done and now waiting on nvc case number. How long approx will it take to get interview date. I have thai attorney to help us. good luck to everyone in there

journey.

That's EXCELLENT considering I have been bummed out reading the problems with VSC and serious delays. I was wondering if it would take me 9-11 months for NOA2 (plus) like some people have been waiting (and getting nowhere).

I'm two months behind you so this is exactly what I needed to see today. The separation is KILLING me!

I plan to go over there all of Feb and March hopefully catching the interview while I'm there (I don't want to go home without her). Just hoping and praying NOA2 will come on time.

We're getting married at her house (it will be interesting to say the least-she's one of the poorest houses in the poorest region, poorest city (something like that) LOL! Anyway, it will be a simple walk down the dirt road with tacky music on the way to her house-ceremony. I'm saying tacky right now but I'm sure I'll be all choked up when the time comes. Wish I could do the big kabang but this will ne nice and personal (and save money for her family versus pissing it away for a one time party...for what-they say).

I've got to check a little sin sod customs and I don't mind doing a bit of that, maybe some gold for mom and wife. I'm thrilled about the usd/thb direction lately BUT IKOBO closed (it conly cost $5 to send a thousand...now I'm stuck with expensive methods of transferring money (moneygram, etc) which makes me sick ebcause their exchange rate isn't accurate. Oh well...I'm bringing cash when I go since cash was the best decision I made my last visit (don't get killed by fees for accessing your money).

I'm praying waiting hoping for a NOA2 on time (early would be 'da bomb!) LOL!

My bank (Charles Schwab Bank) doesn't charge foreign ATM fees and I didn't notice many ATMs in Thailand that did. Why not just open an account at a good bank and send her an ATM card?

Check out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bride_price

I wrote the section on Thailand and that photo is OUR sin sot payment... haha. In general you should pay at least 100,000 baht and 5 baht of gold, but that can vary upward quite a bit. As you can see, mine was a bit more, LOL... Be careful going much lower (unless your fiancee was previously married) as you might create a lot of problems for your fiancee and her family... the sin sot is VERY public in Thailand.

Thanks for the info. She'd been married before (ceremony, not on paper). I was thinking about what you mentioned for sin sod. I've read a lot about it...some say don't do it, mentioning greed, etc (obviously not understanding the culture and on my part some good will) etc. Bottom line is no matter what I do, they'll be light years dirt poor compared to me. I don't give money to churches or organizations (I'd rather see it at 100% effectiveness versus everyone taking a cut). I do look forward to them being my family, also since my farang family is fragmented and couldn't give a ####### like man farang familes near me.

The wait time is killing me. I am VERY concerned about the vermont service center problems widely posted here. I'm saving all I can. she wants to go to work at McDonalds (right now I'm supporting her) but she'd only make $240 a month. Not sure if this would help the visa process or not. I read about that one member's delays because she worked for a massage parlour. My Tilac has a spotty work past (supported for 3 years by a bf prior to me, worked in a beauty salon and at home growing rice, then she met me).

My thoughts were to lay down 600,000 and about 5 baht gold and they'll return all but about 100-150,000 (likely her mom would return more but I want her to walk with at least 5-6k if I can...or less if we can save and give her a house with running water and a/c sooner. We'll have that discussion when the time comes, I guess. I've got 2 kids and child support and I have to buy a house here (once I sell this one but bad market complicates with advantages and disadvantages alike)

So Schwab charges nothing when you used ATM in LOS? I'll change my account tomorrow, then

Schwab not only charges nothing, they will REFUND anything that you get charged by any other ATM, though like I said, charges are rare in Thailand.

Nice to see that you are willing to honor Thai customs. If she's been married before (legal or not--almost no Thai marriages are legal these days), you really won't (or shouldn't) be expected to pay anything. (Her first husband almost certainly paid it already.) Anything you give is really a gift under those circumstances. In addition, the amount you are planning to offer would be a TREMENDOUSLY LARGE amount in Isan.

Be sure you consider in advance how you are going to obtain the 600k in cash in Thailand. It's not easy. If you enter and leave with that much in cash, you're going to have to declare it. If you try to get it locally, you are going to have issues with the bank wires... especially when you try to wire 500k BACK.

DO NOT let her work in ANY bar or ANY massage place--legit or not doesn't matter. It will cause a lot of problems. McD's would probably not hurt and may help. (As it would be a job and no one at the embassy would need to wonder where she got her money...)

[ThaitoUSA 15]

My future mother-in-law asked for 10 Baht gold (about $3,500). I found her request to be quite reasonable. Besides buying a push tractor for dad ($1,700), they have never asked for anything else. I have been with their daughter for over four years. She is now 29 years old, never been married, never had children and has earned a Master's degree. During the first year or so of dating, she strongly objected to her daughter having relations with a man outside of marriage. Mom has stated on several occasions, she just wishes for us to be married "to do the right thing." I strongly respect her position and that is how come we've gone ahead with the K-1. After marrying here in America, we plan to return to Thailand for a big ceremony in their village.

I quite like the in-laws and feel blessed that they are such honest, hard-working people. Perhaps that is how come their daughter turned out to be a fine lady as well. I do not have much difficulty talking with them in Thai, unless they start speaking northern dialect, which they have the tendency to lapse into, especially after a little moonshine.

In closing, my best friend's father told me as a boy "Look at the mother; however she is, so shall the daughter become." With the acknowledged exception, I feel there's deep wisdom to that.

[toma1 10]

My future mother-in-law asked for 10 Baht gold (about $3,500). I found her request to be quite reasonable. Besides buying a push tractor for dad ($1,700), they have never asked for anything else. I have been with their daughter for over four years. She is now 29 years old, never been married, never had children and has earned a Master's degree. During the first year or so of dating, she strongly objected to her daughter having relations with a man outside of marriage. Mom has stated on several occasions, she just wishes for us to be married "to do the right thing." I strongly respect her position and that is how come we've gone ahead with the K-1. After marrying here in America, we plan to return to Thailand for a big ceremony in their village.

I quite like the in-laws and feel blessed that they are such honest, hard-working people. Perhaps that is how come their daughter turned out to be a fine lady as well. I do not have much difficulty talking with them in Thai, unless they start speaking northern dialect, which they have the tendency to lapse into, especially after a little moonshine.

In closing, my best friend's father told me as a boy "Look at the mother; however she is, so shall the daughter become." With the acknowledged exception, I feel there's deep wisdom to that.

10 baht could be VERY REASONABLE under the circumstances you mention... though it would also depend on the cash payment and--to a lesser extent--on the ring.

[HYENA 4]

Hi Everyone,

I wanted to let you all know my fiancee and I got our noa2 oct23! Now it is on to the next step of waiting. I feel we are ahead we just got medical and police report done and now waiting on nvc case number. How long approx will it take to get interview date. I have thai attorney to help us. good luck to everyone in there

journey.

That's EXCELLENT considering I have been bummed out reading the problems with VSC and serious delays. I was wondering if it would take me 9-11 months for NOA2 (plus) like some people have been waiting (and getting nowhere).

I'm two months behind you so this is exactly what I needed to see today. The separation is KILLING me!

I plan to go over there all of Feb and March hopefully catching the interview while I'm there (I don't want to go home without her). Just hoping and praying NOA2 will come on time.

We're getting married at her house (it will be interesting to say the least-she's one of the poorest houses in the poorest region, poorest city (something like that) LOL! Anyway, it will be a simple walk down the dirt road with tacky music on the way to her house-ceremony. I'm saying tacky right now but I'm sure I'll be all choked up when the time comes. Wish I could do the big kabang but this will ne nice and personal (and save money for her family versus pissing it away for a one time party...for what-they say).

I've got to check a little sin sod customs and I don't mind doing a bit of that, maybe some gold for mom and wife. I'm thrilled about the usd/thb direction lately BUT IKOBO closed (it conly cost $5 to send a thousand...now I'm stuck with expensive methods of transferring money (moneygram, etc) which makes me sick ebcause their exchange rate isn't accurate. Oh well...I'm bringing cash when I go since cash was the best decision I made my last visit (don't get killed by fees for accessing your money).

I'm praying waiting hoping for a NOA2 on time (early would be 'da bomb!) LOL!

My bank (Charles Schwab Bank) doesn't charge foreign ATM fees and I didn't notice many ATMs in Thailand that did. Why not just open an account at a good bank and send her an ATM card?

Check out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bride_price

I wrote the section on Thailand and that photo is OUR sin sot payment... haha. In general you should pay at least 100,000 baht and 5 baht of gold, but that can vary upward quite a bit. As you can see, mine was a bit more, LOL... Be careful going much lower (unless your fiancee was previously married) as you might create a lot of problems for your fiancee and her family... the sin sot is VERY public in Thailand.

Thanks for the info. She'd been married before (ceremony, not on paper). I was thinking about what you mentioned for sin sod. I've read a lot about it...some say don't do it, mentioning greed, etc (obviously not understanding the culture and on my part some good will) etc. Bottom line is no matter what I do, they'll be light years dirt poor compared to me. I don't give money to churches or organizations (I'd rather see it at 100% effectiveness versus everyone taking a cut). I do look forward to them being my family, also since my farang family is fragmented and couldn't give a ####### like man farang familes near me.

The wait time is killing me. I am VERY concerned about the vermont service center problems widely posted here. I'm saving all I can. she wants to go to work at McDonalds (right now I'm supporting her) but she'd only make $240 a month. Not sure if this would help the visa process or not. I read about that one member's delays because she worked for a massage parlour. My Tilac has a spotty work past (supported for 3 years by a bf prior to me, worked in a beauty salon and at home growing rice, then she met me).

My thoughts were to lay down 600,000 and about 5 baht gold and they'll return all but about 100-150,000 (likely her mom would return more but I want her to walk with at least 5-6k if I can...or less if we can save and give her a house with running water and a/c sooner. We'll have that discussion when the time comes, I guess. I've got 2 kids and child support and I have to buy a house here (once I sell this one but bad market complicates with advantages and disadvantages alike)

So Schwab charges nothing when you used ATM in LOS? I'll change my account tomorrow, then

Schwab not only charges nothing, they will REFUND anything that you get charged by any other ATM, though like I said, charges are rare in Thailand.

Nice to see that you are willing to honor Thai customs. If she's been married before (legal or not--almost no Thai marriages are legal these days), you really won't (or shouldn't) be expected to pay anything. (Her first husband almost certainly paid it already.) Anything you give is really a gift under those circumstances. In addition, the amount you are planning to offer would be a TREMENDOUSLY LARGE amount in Isan.

Be sure you consider in advance how you are going to obtain the 600k in cash in Thailand. It's not easy. If you enter and leave with that much in cash, you're going to have to declare it. If you try to get it locally, you are going to have issues with the bank wires... especially when you try to wire 500k BACK.

DO NOT let her work in ANY bar or ANY massage place--legit or not doesn't matter. It will cause a lot of problems. McD's would probably not hurt and may help. (As it would be a job and no one at the embassy would need to wonder where she got her money...)

She has never worked in a bar..factory worker then beauty salon then farang bf for 3 years then me. I'll tell her McD's may not hurt (although she's never listed it on her application) she wants to contribute for our wedding. I'm just not sure about her working 12 hour days for peanuts when we could make more with her sharp eye at bargains I can sell here. It's impossible to find part time work it seems. I'm really split...5000-8000 (max) baht per month. Her niece works there and after the bus takes their share if I sold one thai gold ring a month here it would be her salary.

Sin sod- I guess it depends on the region/family? I'm sure her motives are good based on what I've seen, however I asked her since she'd been married before if I had to pay any and she said a little bit would be better since I'm farang (double standards but I stopped fighting it and try to see from their point of view). 100,000 is 2,865, then 3 baht of gold ($1150 or so). I like gold and if she keeps it mabe 5 baht since it's cheap now ...not sure who the gold goes to? Does it all go to her or her mom? She'd place the ring I bought in there and I'd put the cash.

The 600k I was mentioning would have been all my money for business buying, staying for 2 months a little honeymoon, plane ticket, moving her out of her apartment, wedding, clothes with the thought of nearly all of it being returned-only setting it out but thinking on it, I don't want to risk anything and I don't want prying eyes to expect something, either (but I'd want her to keep 100k) so you think $2864 and 3-5 baht is too much?

After bringing 10k USD over last time and their not checking or even looking, I doubt it would be a problem bringing more this round. If I get the Schwab account opened then I'd not have to bring cash like that. Last time I put it in my wallet and and a bank envelope obvious for them to see and once customs saw it was cash, the shied away from it with the lines and people all around. In Thailand no one looks at anything the 3 times I've gone this year.

I'd like people to see her family as worthy but not want neighbors/family to want "loans" and be harassed thereafter.

If we both worked here, it would take a couple years to build a respectable house (small) for her mom (she's old, why not) up there...then again, I don't know about it sticking out from all the neighbors (2 streets over they have nicer houses with windows and a/c though)...her road is lined with shacks. It's a different world, that's for sure! I can't wait to get over there for some strange reason.

I'm new to a lot of this. I definitely feel my wife is on my side (she hung up on her mom when her mom suggested a big weding party-turned out her mom was agreeing and it was a misunderstanding). Her family is looking for work to try to help with the wedding cost but I tell them it's OK (50 cents an hour compared to the prices there, I can't imagine). Their grand net profit last year for all their rice was about $1400. I bought them a $145 water pump enabling them to plant twice for the first time this year. If I use smart money, I think I can help better than just giving money for nothing. It's nice to worry about things half way around the world versus worrying about the problems here.

Did I say I was worrying about VSC???? LOL! I hope they get mine done in good time.....please please (maybe I'll beg them)!

[HYENA 4]

My future mother-in-law asked for 10 Baht gold (about $3,500). I found her request to be quite reasonable. Besides buying a push tractor for dad ($1,700), they have never asked for anything else. I have been with their daughter for over four years. She is now 29 years old, never been married, never had children and has earned a Master's degree. During the first year or so of dating, she strongly objected to her daughter having relations with a man outside of marriage. Mom has stated on several occasions, she just wishes for us to be married "to do the right thing." I strongly respect her position and that is how come we've gone ahead with the K-1. After marrying here in America, we plan to return to Thailand for a big ceremony in their village.

I quite like the in-laws and feel blessed that they are such honest, hard-working people. Perhaps that is how come their daughter turned out to be a fine lady as well. I do not have much difficulty talking with them in Thai, unless they start speaking northern dialect, which they have the tendency to lapse into, especially after a little moonshine.

In closing, my best friend's father told me as a boy "Look at the mother; however she is, so shall the daughter become." With the acknowledged exception, I feel there's deep wisdom to that.

10 baht could be VERY REASONABLE under the circumstances you mention... though it would also depend on the cash payment and--to a lesser extent--on the ring.

OK, thanks for your info. So based on what I see, I don't think 100k and 5 baht is that bad (I read it was too high somewhere)? Maybe that was the 600 but that was more for show.

in USD, 5-6k if I can swing it and some gold. I have to see who has cheap gold (I read many Thai places sell 18k claiming it's 22-23k so I gotta bring my test kit- been scammed too many times like that already).

I think I'd be within range given prior marriage, not going under 100k, her family position and her education, etc and the fact I'm farang. So much lays on my future after she's here, I need a down payment for a house after getting equity and selling off this one. SO much to do and no visa!

It's nice to learn all of your info. Regarding status if I could do it differently, I'd still marry this poorest of the poor girl. I agree what you say about the mom. Her mom is cunning, smart, kind and I love her to death! I only wish I could speak Thai more. I want to drag that lady out on water skis just to do it and freak her out a bit! I think if I'm a little less on the sin sod, take her on a nice vacation to Pattaya, maybe Laos, then we build a house with windows and water and a/c, I'll feel I've made a true difference. They've taught me to be smart with money like never before. I learned it's not what you make, it's what you spend that makes one wealthy.

[ThaitoUSA 15]

10 baht could be VERY REASONABLE under the circumstances you mention... though it would also depend on the cash payment and--to a lesser extent--on the ring.

toma1, just the 10 Baht and nothing more. No cash payment. Of course I shall but my fiancee engagement and wedding rings, but the parents really aren't looking for anything else.

Like HYENA, I bought the tractor for dad because it was obviously an enormous help. He is 54 years old now and since he was a boy, he would till the fields with a buffalo. He's getting tired of that and I don't blame him at all. He is so proud of his new tractor and he even rents it out to neighbors.

I think many of us posters on this thread are able to discern between being taken advantage of and genuinely helping others. When we see how grateful they are, it only affirms our choice to give where we can. I have spoken with my fiancee several times and once she is here, we will probably send about $1500 a year to the parents. As HYENA pointed out, this can be equal to an entire year's income for many. It would be a pleasure to give to mom and dad.

[HYENA 4]

Oh Thaivisa there are plenty paranoid people saying they wouldn't give money to stupid money grubbing so and so's, etc. Every family has its issues (mine included). Most of one thread I saw didn't give any sin sod. I'm along with you all here; comparatively I'm so damn wealthy and they're so grateful. Although their culture makes it harder to see how I'm used to, there is a strong bond with those who matter. They're truly good people and only by luck I was born here...they were born there. Anything could have changed all that around so not for one second do I feel I'm higher than anyone...but human.

Her family is in this position partly because her father left and they had minimal ability to survive...sad story as man have.

I've GOT to bone up on my Thai. I want to get to know her mom more. I have a feeling I can learn a lot from her. Up there, those people are very smart about things I'm completely ignorant about (they read people in a second before a mouth is opened). I do like the "respect your elders" culture, too. BUT there is one kid who is a major drinking, stealing, abusing dog and baby problem. He's 11 I think now. Hopefully he'll end up in jail then the family can relax. He's one problem I need to worry about when I'm there. He's a sociopath. I tried to connect to him, offering to pay for school, trying to convince the family to send him to military school or jail (they even called the police to shake him up). Definitely brinigng locks...only so much a barn-like house can stave off. Other than that (and sister's husband refusal to sell useless cows to send daughters to school), everyone is nice and I can't wait to see them again!

Luckily her last bf bought the tractor and outhouse/toilet so that brought them on par with most of their neighbors (at least they weren't the poorest of them all after that)

(WHERE'SMYDAMNVISA?)

Edited November 12, 2008 by HYENA

[toma1 10]

Sorry, I was out with a friend...

Well, I'm not in the same boat. Anna's not poor, she already had a house, a nice apartment in BKK, and two cars when I met her, but that just made my dowry all the higher.... LOL. For guys that won't give any sin sot... I hope you understand that this will make your fiancee feel worthless in her culture. Sorry, but that's the way it is. The only girls that don't get sin sot are bar girls and girls that sleep around A LOT... is that how you want your fiancee to feel? (Remember that I'm not talking about divorced women here... they got their sin sot from the first husband.)

Anna's parents gave all of the gold jewelry to her. That's normal, but the final decision is the parents'. I have heard of a few cases in which the parents kept it all. If you have someone negotiating the dowry for you (which is your right) they can certainly clarify all of this in advance. It's not a secret. If you don't that probably means your fiancee is doing the negotiating. She will probably favor her parents in these negotiations... that's also normal.

HYENA: I'm not saying it is too much. If you can part with that amount and it makes everyone happy, then that amount is perfect. All I can tell you is that a Thai guy would not pay anything under these circumstances. My ex- (Thai) gf was also previously married and she told me that she had no dowry because of that. (We never discussed marriage, BTW, it was just casual conversation.) Anyway, it's nice that you are helping them out.

ThaitoUSA: WOW! That's very low given the circumstances. Almost suspiciously low, LOL...

Edited November 12, 2008 by toma1

[symbiosis 0]

I realize this subject has probably been covered numerous times before, but I can't seem to find specific references:

Can someone tell me what the deal is with a temporary EAD work permit (90 days). Is this automatic for K-1 visa holder upon U.S. entry? If not, what are the restrictions, or which specific POEs do it? The latter could make a difference on my fiance's flight arrangements.

Also, how long does it typically take to get a permanent(?) work permit?

[ThaitoUSA 15]

I realize this subject has probably been covered numerous times before, but I can't seem to find specific references:

Can someone tell me what the deal is with a temporary EAD work permit (90 days). Is this automatic for K-1 visa holder upon U.S. entry? If not, what are the restrictions, or which specific POEs do it? The latter could make a difference on my fiance's flight arrangements.

Also, how long does it typically take to get a permanent(?) work permit?

From my understanding, it is not automatic. It may be given at POE at the discretion of the immigration officer. It cannot hurt to ask for one from the officer, though he or she may still say 'no.'

In a FAQ on this site it says that JFK seems to be one of the few still issuing temporary EADs but that even there it is not every time. I am not certain how current that information is, because some recent posters have mentioned receiving them without even asking (cannot remember the POE's).

You may apply for the EAD at the same time as applying for Adjustment of Status (AOS), which shall be after legally marrying. It seems to take anyway from three to six months to be processed and issued.

I have wondered also what shall my wife do for three months+ while I am working. Perhaps volunteer somewhere, or find a hobby. I am not too concerned, however I do not want her to become bored.

All the best,

Pete

[mnbinth 2]

I realize this subject has probably been covered numerous times before, but I can't seem to find specific references:

Can someone tell me what the deal is with a temporary EAD work permit (90 days). Is this automatic for K-1 visa holder upon U.S. entry? If not, what are the restrictions, or which specific POEs do it? The latter could make a difference on my fiance's flight arrangements.

Also, how long does it typically take to get a permanent(?) work permit?

I asked at San Francisco and they said my wife had to apply. It took us 3 months to get EAD and 6 months to get Green Card.

[HYENA 4]

Working...

She went to work at McDonalds yesterday supposedly the coffee maker but one she arrived, she said she was lugging around heavy heavy bags of fries (and she's stong as an ox) and deep frying them. She said her hands are all sore and red now (likely grease splatter). Apparently there are no safe work conditions over there. I told her she can quit (I told her not to bother but if she must, give it a run).

She's looked for jobs but no luck. If only she could find a decent job but no high school and minimal computer but OK english (enough to communicate and understand most everything minus a few words we work around) she's pretty competent.

She's a hard worker but just can't land a decent job.... No wonder so many want to leave. Her niece is getting 50 cents an hour at McDonalds.

Hey, did I say the wait was KILLING ME?????? grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

So my confusion is no sin sod from what I understand but she said it would be better me being farang, etc. I think I'll find a happy medium... maybe 100k they pay for wedding with that and I bu 3 baht of gold. That seems easier to swallow, I guess. During the negotiations, I'll go in and ask what the tradition is, then I'll hear the honest answer. I think they'll be easy on me. I understand she wants max for her family but at the same time she feels horrible I have to pay and it's only me (since with farang families, every man for himself with no one in my family giving a rip).

She said if I don't have it, don't worry...her coming here is most important. I want to be sure everyone is happy and I don't make them feel low.

Now if she can only find some kind of job...working at a restaurant or something. WIth the low pay, even the bus cuts into profits a great deal given the low wages there. She did the sweat shop thing for 6 years.. I dunno...it tires me....

[toma1 10]

Working...

She went to work at McDonalds yesterday supposedly the coffee maker but one she arrived, she said she was lugging around heavy heavy bags of fries (and she's stong as an ox) and deep frying them. She said her hands are all sore and red now (likely grease splatter). Apparently there are no safe work conditions over there. I told her she can quit (I told her not to bother but if she must, give it a run).

She's looked for jobs but no luck. If only she could find a decent job but no high school and minimal computer but OK english (enough to communicate and understand most everything minus a few words we work around) she's pretty competent.

She's a hard worker but just can't land a decent job.... No wonder so many want to leave. Her niece is getting 50 cents an hour at McDonalds.

Hey, did I say the wait was KILLING ME?????? grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

So my confusion is no sin sod from what I understand but she said it would be better me being farang, etc. I think I'll find a happy medium... maybe 100k they pay for wedding with that and I bu 3 baht of gold. That seems easier to swallow, I guess. During the negotiations, I'll go in and ask what the tradition is, then I'll hear the honest answer. I think they'll be easy on me. I understand she wants max for her family but at the same time she feels horrible I have to pay and it's only me (since with farang families, every man for himself with no one in my family giving a rip).

She said if I don't have it, don't worry...her coming here is most important. I want to be sure everyone is happy and I don't make them feel low.

Now if she can only find some kind of job...working at a restaurant or something. WIth the low pay, even the bus cuts into profits a great deal given the low wages there. She did the sweat shop thing for 6 years.. I dunno...it tires me....

I guess it's not uncommon to charge farang a bit more. Do you have ANY Thai friend that is OLDER than you (close to her parents age) that could negotiate for you? That's perfectly OK if you do! It's normal and keeps you above the fray. Otherwise don't negotiate TOO hard, but also avoid any outward displays of wealth.

What city do you live in?

[HYENA 4]

Working...

She went to work at McDonalds yesterday supposedly the coffee maker but one she arrived, she said she was lugging around heavy heavy bags of fries (and she's stong as an ox) and deep frying them. She said her hands are all sore and red now (likely grease splatter). Apparently there are no safe work conditions over there. I told her she can quit (I told her not to bother but if she must, give it a run).

She's looked for jobs but no luck. If only she could find a decent job but no high school and minimal computer but OK english (enough to communicate and understand most everything minus a few words we work around) she's pretty competent.

She's a hard worker but just can't land a decent job.... No wonder so many want to leave. Her niece is getting 50 cents an hour at McDonalds.

Hey, did I say the wait was KILLING ME?????? grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

So my confusion is no sin sod from what I understand but she said it would be better me being farang, etc. I think I'll find a happy medium... maybe 100k they pay for wedding with that and I bu 3 baht of gold. That seems easier to swallow, I guess. During the negotiations, I'll go in and ask what the tradition is, then I'll hear the honest answer. I think they'll be easy on me. I understand she wants max for her family but at the same time she feels horrible I have to pay and it's only me (since with farang families, every man for himself with no one in my family giving a rip).

She said if I don't have it, don't worry...her coming here is most important. I want to be sure everyone is happy and I don't make them feel low.

Now if she can only find some kind of job...working at a restaurant or something. WIth the low pay, even the bus cuts into profits a great deal given the low wages there. She did the sweat shop thing for 6 years.. I dunno...it tires me....

I guess it's not uncommon to charge farang a bit more. Do you have ANY Thai friend that is OLDER than you (close to her parents age) that could negotiate for you? That's perfectly OK if you do! It's normal and keeps you above the fray. Otherwise don't negotiate TOO hard, but also avoid any outward displays of wealth.

What city do you live in?

I live near Baltimore.

I figured out why the sin sod regardless of her status, past, etc. She bought land and has a loan on it. I forgot all about this. It's somewhere near 100k (less, now) to pay if off. Buying land in Isaan (in my opinion) is stupid because the cost of it would not pay for itself by the time you died, it seems. I believe she wants to get rid of that burden when she comes here. She's insisting sin sod happens for prev married folk...then keeping up with the Jones'es (maybe her neighbors were prev married and got it starting a local thing) BUT it's not like she's never been married, etc. In reading books, I do understand sin sod equates to a family's status and the worth of their daughter. She's got low self esteem being poor, etc so maybe she's hoping it would be higher to make it seem she's more desirable. On the other hand, I don't want to be wronged or taken advantage of, either.

I've been told many times sin sod isn't paid twice but here she is sayign yes, in our case it is paid..but when asked, she says forget about it, pai penrai. This wishy washy Thai (culture) is like getting blood out of a turnip. I'm used to frank, open discussions. I think an intermediary would be good (unbiased) but where in her entire village would I find such a person? Also, how would she save face saying she's been with XXX d (apparently that figures into the calculations). Yes I think it would be FAIR to bring someone in to negotiate on my behalf....got any time...whatchya doing in Feb???? LOL!

Only coming from my culture, it's no one's business but I also understand sin sod is everyone's business up there. Would they be offended if I brought someone in to negotiate? Also, do our discussions we've already had regarding this---in the modern era, are these considered the negotiations? I'm so darn confused because "by the book" I should pay nothing for a couple reasons. Also, it would be nice to know exactly how much family support I'd be sending. The fly by the seat of your pants (their culture) versus financial planning (my culture) is clashing big time! She also said when the amount is announced, she'd add up all I've given her for support already (which is a lot). I know she wants to help her family because they really can't go any lower so her position is understandable...I jsut don't know. I don't want either side feeling they've been cheated.

Edited November 15, 2008 by HYENA