A house wife from New Jersey Wrote this

[GaryC 7]

If only there were more muslims like Dean.... who has spoke out against violence.... then there might be more understanding about Islam.

Then again, if there weren't so many people who hated Islam just because they think they are all terrorists, there might be even more understanding.

Amen.

Or who hate Islam because they have no desire to learn anything about it except what they are fed by the slanted media on which they choose to base their opinions.

I base my feeling on the subject.... after spending 7 years of my teenage years in a muslim country and mixing with real muslim people.... they are the ones who are being hurt the most by the radical teachings of a few...

People in Islamic countries have very little chance of learning anything about the westen world Christian or otherwise.... if is forbidden for them to do so...

Kez

What I'm saying though is that it seems that many people think that the radicals' interpretation of Islam is an accurate representation of what Islam stands for. You know, "religion of hate" and all that.

I have to disagree with you on that. Just as the extremist Islam gets all the press the bigoted western views get all the press. This is a common topic of discussion with the people I know. Most if not all recognize that the extremists do not represent all of Islam. It's like when we were have the spate of abortion clinic bombings. The Christian right was painted with the same brush as the Christian extremists by some. But in reality most people understood that the vast majority of Christians condemned the acts.

[Jenn! 918]

If only there were more muslims like Dean.... who has spoke out against violence.... then there might be more understanding about Islam.

Then again, if there weren't so many people who hated Islam just because they think they are all terrorists, there might be even more understanding.

Amen.

Or who hate Islam because they have no desire to learn anything about it except what they are fed by the slanted media on which they choose to base their opinions.

I base my feeling on the subject.... after spending 7 years of my teenage years in a muslim country and mixing with real muslim people.... they are the ones who are being hurt the most by the radical teachings of a few...

People in Islamic countries have very little chance of learning anything about the westen world Christian or otherwise.... if is forbidden for them to do so...

Kez

What I'm saying though is that it seems that many people think that the radicals' interpretation of Islam is an accurate representation of what Islam stands for. You know, "religion of hate" and all that.

I have to disagree with you on that. Just as the extremist Islam gets all the press the bigoted western views get all the press. This is a common topic of discussion with the people I know. Most if not all recognize that the extremists do not represent all of Islam. It's like when we were have the spate of abortion clinic bombings. The Christian right was painted with the same brush as the Christian extremists by some. But in reality most people understood that the vast majority of Christians condemned the acts.

You may be right. But I do think there are quite a few people who think that way. I don't know of any statistics to back that up though. Even here on VJ there are certian people who never miss the opportunity to make a dig about Islam. Like in any religion-themed thread, a comment such as, "Well at least this religion isn't about blowing up the infidels."

It is nice to know though that most people don't think this way and there is thoughtful discussion about it.

[GaryC 7]

You may be right. But I do think there are quite a few people who think that way. I don't know of any statistics to back that up though. Even here on VJ there are certian people who never miss the opportunity to make a dig about Islam. Like in any religion-themed thread, a comment such as, "Well at least this religion isn't about blowing up the infidels."

It is nice to know though that most people don't think this way and there is thoughtful discussion about it.

It's the same old story. A few loudmouth azzhats mess things up for everyone else. I don't hate or fear Islam but I do hate and fear the d!ckwads that kill while touting their perverted brand of Islam. It's a double travesty. Religious extremism of any sort is wrong.

[Jenn! 918]

It's the same old story. A few loudmouth azzhats mess things up for everyone else. I don't hate or fear Islam but I do hate and fear the d!ckwads that kill while touting their perverted brand of Islam. It's a double travesty. Religious extremism of any sort is wrong.

Agreed.

I think the author of the OP though falls into the azzhat category however. Take this statement:

I'll care about the Koran when the fanatics in the Middle East start caring about the Holy Bible, the mere possession of which is a crime in Saudi Arabia .

This clearly shows that she has a problem with Islam itself. Why else would she think that disrespecting the Koran is acceptable. She will care about the Koran when the fanatics in the ME care about the Bible? Why does she want fanatics to care about the Bible before she will care about the Koran, unless she herself is a Christian fanatic?

Her whole argument seems to be: I will disrespect all of Islam until the radicals respect Christianity. Which doesn't make a bit of sense to me, unless she believes that radicals are representative Muslisms.

[GaryC 7]

It's the same old story. A few loudmouth azzhats mess things up for everyone else. I don't hate or fear Islam but I do hate and fear the d!ckwads that kill while touting their perverted brand of Islam. It's a double travesty. Religious extremism of any sort is wrong.

Agreed.

I think the author of the OP though falls into the azzhat category however. Take this statement:

I'll care about the Koran when the fanatics in the Middle East start caring about the Holy Bible, the mere possession of which is a crime in Saudi Arabia .

This clearly shows that she has a problem with Islam itself. Why else would she think that disrespecting the Koran is acceptable. She will care about the Koran when the fanatics in the ME care about the Bible? Why does she want fanatics to care about the Bible before she will care about the Koran, unless she herself is a Christian fanatic?

Her whole argument seems to be: I will disrespect all of Islam until the radicals respect Christianity. Which doesn't make a bit of sense to me, unless she believes that radicals are representative Muslisms.

That statement was OTT. I see her point but don't agree with it. She is upset over the lack of respect that Christianity gets in some countries. SA is known for it's intolerance for anything that is Christian or Jewish. I used to work for a company that bought and sold factory machinery. We had a mill that a company from SA wanted to buy. Before they would take possession of it they sent someone over that literally looked at every single piece. If anything had a "made in Israel" tag on it they wouldn't take the machine.

[Jenn! 918]

It's the same old story. A few loudmouth azzhats mess things up for everyone else. I don't hate or fear Islam but I do hate and fear the d!ckwads that kill while touting their perverted brand of Islam. It's a double travesty. Religious extremism of any sort is wrong.

Agreed.

I think the author of the OP though falls into the azzhat category however. Take this statement:

I'll care about the Koran when the fanatics in the Middle East start caring about the Holy Bible, the mere possession of which is a crime in Saudi Arabia .

This clearly shows that she has a problem with Islam itself. Why else would she think that disrespecting the Koran is acceptable. She will care about the Koran when the fanatics in the ME care about the Bible? Why does she want fanatics to care about the Bible before she will care about the Koran, unless she herself is a Christian fanatic?

Her whole argument seems to be: I will disrespect all of Islam until the radicals respect Christianity. Which doesn't make a bit of sense to me, unless she believes that radicals are representative Muslisms.

That statement was OTT. I see her point but don't agree with it. She is upset over the lack of respect that Christianity gets in some countries. SA is known for it's intolerance for anything that is Christian or Jewish. I used to work for a company that bought and sold factory machinery. We had a mill that a company from SA wanted to buy. Before they would take possession of it they sent someone over that literally looked at every single piece. If anything had a "made in Israel" tag on it they wouldn't take the machine.

I don't doubt it. And I disagree with discrimination on the basis of religion by *any* other religion. I can sympathize with her being upset over the lack of respect for Christianity by some Muslims. However, I can't understand her method of retaliation, that is, disrespect of Islam itself is justified because of the actions of some, which is how I read her position. I think it's stooping.

[Ladylethal 12]

This type of opinion reinforcers my statement in another thread about "What makes America, America".

Quote from the other thread: "Obsession with war and guns and with considering themselves better than all other countries. "

[John & Annie 0]

sniff...sniff

Can I just say how proud of everyone on the site right now.

I was kinda fearful posting this, but I knew it was the right thing to do.

This is a discussion I hope everyone takes this away from VJ and brings this home to their families and friends to help quell some of these issues.

Act Locally to effect Globally.

PS. Its a good thing I did not flame off when I was called a dirty name.

[chri'stina 190]

This type of opinion reinforcers my statement in another thread about "What makes America, America".

Quote from the other thread: "Obsession with war and guns and with considering themselves better than all other countries. "

I don't really think it's fair to say that here, especially when half of the replies have been against the sentiment written in the email. There is a lot more to America than that.

Edited July 13, 2007 by stina&suj

[GaryC 7]

It's the same old story. A few loudmouth azzhats mess things up for everyone else. I don't hate or fear Islam but I do hate and fear the d!ckwads that kill while touting their perverted brand of Islam. It's a double travesty. Religious extremism of any sort is wrong.

Agreed.

I think the author of the OP though falls into the azzhat category however. Take this statement:

I'll care about the Koran when the fanatics in the Middle East start caring about the Holy Bible, the mere possession of which is a crime in Saudi Arabia .

This clearly shows that she has a problem with Islam itself. Why else would she think that disrespecting the Koran is acceptable. She will care about the Koran when the fanatics in the ME care about the Bible? Why does she want fanatics to care about the Bible before she will care about the Koran, unless she herself is a Christian fanatic?

Her whole argument seems to be: I will disrespect all of Islam until the radicals respect Christianity. Which doesn't make a bit of sense to me, unless she believes that radicals are representative Muslisms.

That statement was OTT. I see her point but don't agree with it. She is upset over the lack of respect that Christianity gets in some countries. SA is known for it's intolerance for anything that is Christian or Jewish. I used to work for a company that bought and sold factory machinery. We had a mill that a company from SA wanted to buy. Before they would take possession of it they sent someone over that literally looked at every single piece. If anything had a "made in Israel" tag on it they wouldn't take the machine.

I don't doubt it. And I disagree with discrimination on the basis of religion by *any* other religion. I can sympathize with her being upset over the lack of respect for Christianity by some Muslims. However, I can't understand her method of retaliation, that is, disrespect of Islam itself is justified because of the actions of some, which is how I read her position. I think it's stooping.

Disrespecting all of Islam was wrong. The statement you cited was OTT. However, as long as it is directed only at the terrorists and not Muslims in general I agree with the rest of the post. To try to be PC when dealing with the extremists is just plane dumb and I think that is what she was trying to show albeit in a sometimes incorrect manner.

[jundp 191]

It's the same old story. A few loudmouth azzhats mess things up for everyone else. I don't hate or fear Islam but I do hate and fear the d!ckwads that kill while touting their perverted brand of Islam. It's a double travesty. Religious extremism of any sort is wrong.

I agree wholeheartedly.

Uh-oh. I just agreed with Gary on a religious/political issue. (Kidding! Kidding!)

[Ladylethal 12]

This type of opinion reinforcers my statement in another thread about "What makes America, America".

Quote from the other thread: "Obsession with war and guns and with considering themselves better than all other countries. "

I don't really think it's fair to say that here, especially when half of the replies have been against the sentiment written in the email. There is a lot more to America than that.

I meant the woman. I'm sorry if my opinion is harsh, but for me you guys here on VJ (most of you at least) can't be included in my opinion since you are marrying foreigners, know other countries and are more "open" to reality outside of US. But I've lived in US years back for 6 months and what I saw and heard only led me to this opinion, also, as a foreigner, reading about politics in US also only "teaches" me that.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

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FROM JOSEPH FARAH'S G2 BULLETIN

Author sees Islam's 20-year plan for U.S.

Arab-American author outlines secret

20-year strategy to undermine country

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted: August 4, 2003

1:00 a.m. Eastern

Editor's note: Joseph Farah's G2 Bulletin is an online, subscription intelligence news service from the creator of WorldNetDaily.com – a journalist who has been developing sources around the world for the last 25 years.

© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com

A refugee from the Muslim Middle East thinks he has discovered Islam's 20-point plan for conquering the United States by 2020 – a plan revealed in the latest issue of Joseph Farah's G2 Bulletin.

Anis Shorrosh, author of ''Islam Revealed'' and ''The True Furqan,'' is a Christian Arab-American who emigrated from Arab-controlled Jerusalem in January 1967.

''The following is my analysis of Islamic invasion of America, the agenda of Islamists and visible methods to take over America by the year 2020,'' Shorrosh says. ''Will Americans continue to sleep through this invasion as they did when we were attacked on 9/11?''

1. Terminate America's freedom of speech by replacing it with statewide and nationwide hate-crime bills.

2. Wage a war of words using black leaders like Louis Farrakhan, Rev. Jesse Jackson and other visible religious personalities who promote Islam as the religion of African-Americans while insisting Christianity is for whites only. What they fail to tell African-Americans is that it was Arab Muslims who captured them and sold them as slaves. In fact, the Arabic word for black and slave is the same, ''Abed.''

3. Engage the American public in dialogues, discussions, debates in colleges, universities, public libraries, radio, TV, churches and mosques on the virtues of Islam. Proclaim how it is historically another religion like Judaism and Christianity with the same monotheistic faith.

4. Nominate Muslim sympathizers to political office to bring about favorable legislation toward Islam and support potential sympathizers by block voting.

5. Take control of as much of Hollywood, the press, TV, radio and the Internet as possible by buying the related corporations or a controlling stock.

6. Yield to the fear of the imminent shut-off of the lifeblood of America – black gold. America’s economy depends on oil and 41 percent of it comes from the Middle East.

7. Yell ''foul, out-of-context, personal interpretation, hate crime, Zionist, un- American, inaccurate interpretation of the Quran'' anytime Islam is criticized or the Quran is analyzed in the public arena.

8. Encourage Muslims to penetrate the White House, specifically with Islamists who can articulate a marvelous and peaceful picture of Islam. Acquire government positions and get membership in local school boards. Train Muslims as medical doctors to dominate the medical field, research and pharmaceutical companies. (Ever notice how numerous Muslim doctors in America are, when their countries need them more desperately than America?) Take over the computer industry. Establish Middle Eastern restaurants throughout the U.S. to connect planners of Islamization in a discreet way.

9. Accelerate Islamic demographic growth via:

Massive immigration (100,000 annually since 1961).

Use no birth control whatsoever – every baby of Muslim parents is automatically a Muslim and cannot choose another religion later.

Muslim men must marry American women and Islamize them (10,000 annually). Then divorce them and remarry every five years – since one can't legally marry four at one time. This is a legal solution in America.

Convert angry, alienated black inmates and turn them into militants (so far 2,000 released inmates have joined al-Qaida worldwide). Only a few ''sleeper cells'' have been captured in Afghanistan and on American soil.

10. Reading, writing, arithmetic and research through the American educational system, mosques and student centers (now 1,500) should be sprinkled with dislike of Jews, evangelical Christians and democracy. There are currently 300 exclusively Muslim schools in the U.S. which teach loyalty to the Quran, not the U.S. Constitution. In January of 2002, Saudi Arabia’s Embassy in Washington mailed 4,500 packets of the Quran and videos promoting Islam to America's high schools – free of charge. Saudi Arabia would not allow the U.S. to reciprocate.

11. Provide very sizeable monetary Muslim grants to colleges and universities in America to establish ''Centers for Islamic studies'' with Muslim directors to promote Islam in higher-education institutions.

12. Let the entire world know through propaganda, speeches, seminars, local and national media that terrorists have hijacked Islam, when in truth, Islam hijacked the terrorists.

13. Appeal to the historically compassionate and sensitive Americans for sympathy and tolerance towards Muslims in America who are portrayed as mainly immigrants from oppressed countries.

14. Nullify America's sense of security by manipulating the intelligence community with misinformation. Periodically terrorize Americans with reports of impending attacks on bridges, tunnels, water supplies, airports, apartment buildings and malls.

15. Form riots and demonstrations in the prison system demanding Islamic Sharia as the way of life, not America's justice system.

16. Open numerous charities throughout the U.S., but use the funds to support Islamic terrorism with American dollars.

17. Raise interest in Islam on America's campuses by insisting freshman take at least one course on Islam.

18. Unify the numerous Muslim lobbies in Washington, mosques, Islamic student centers, educational organizations, magazines and papers by Internet and an annual convention to coordinate plans, propagate the faith and engender news in the media.

19. Send intimidating messages and messengers to the outspoken individuals who are critical of Islam and seek to eliminate them by hook or crook.

20. Applaud Muslims as loyal citizens of the U.S. by spotlighting their voting record as the highest percentage of all minority and ethic groups in America.

Shorrosh is a member of the Oxford Society of Scholars, has traveled in 76 countries, and is a lecturer and producer of TV documentaries. ''Islam Revealed'' is a bestseller now in its eighth printing. His forthcoming 10th book, from which the 20-point plan is abridged, is titled ''Islam: A Threat or a Challenge.''

''The True Furqan'' is also available for viewing on Islam-Exposed.org. Shorrosh's new website is Focusing-on-Islam.com.

Subscribe to Joseph Farah's G2 Bulletin

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article....RTICLE_ID=33898

[Jenn! 918]

Case in point?

[trueimage 0]

I still blame the media. If you feel that the sentiment of Americans is hate against Muslims in general and not just extremists, people only know what they are told. The average person will not research for themselves and will believe whatever the evening news tells them. Sad, but true. Most people are led the wrong way simply because they are too lazy to think for themselves.