Need help with ITIN - Honduras

[xyz_123 6]

Hello all,

 

I (the US petitioner) am needing to file my 2021 taxes. I would like to file MFJ for the large tax breaks if possible. We married in late 2021 and are currently working our way through the CR-1 process (filed in January). However, to get an ITIN we are having difficulty getting her documents to the US (she resides in Honduras and is a Honduran national).

 

She has been told by a lawyer there that it is not possible to get a certified copy of her national ID card from the issuing agency (nor is she willing to send the original since she uses it almost daily). That basically leaves her passport as a form of photo identification; however, to get a certified copy is prohibitively expensive (nearly $200). The price to send the original document by mail was quoted at around $100 (by FedEx and DHL) and they warned her that the US authorities could seize her passport to investigate for a few months before deciding to return the passport (or not). 

 

We have also tried to find a "certifying acceptance agent" in the country but none of the 4 companies listed on the IRS website have answered incoming calls (Deloitte and Touche, Ernst & Young, KPMG or PricewaterhouseCoopers). They may just be operating call centers based in the country and not provide those services, despite listing her city as a location. She was also unable to gain in-person access to these companies without having a prior appointment.

 

Does anyone have any advice in this situation?

[Wuozopo 4,293]

I would say is your benefit filing jointly worth $200? Have you done a return both ways?  MFJ and MFS? What is the difference? 
 

You can also file MFS and then amend to MFJ when her immigration and SSN is sorted.

[Gabriel5454 19]

My wife and I were in almost exactly the same position.  We tried going through acceptance agents but none of them were interested in dealing with normal people (as opposed to businesses, people with corporations, etc).  The IRS will accept what is called a "certified copy" of your spouse's foreign passport.  The US embassy in Honduras may be able to do this for you.  We had to email the embassy back and forth to convince them that it was absolutely necessary (the IRS won't accept a normal photocopy with apostille, the acceptance agents won't help us, etc etc).  Finally they gave my spouse an appointment to go to the embassy and make a "certified" copy.  It costs $50.  You can send this copy to the US as opposed to the original passport.

[xyz_123 6]

14 hours ago, Wuozopo said:

I would say is your benefit filing jointly worth $200? Have you done a return both ways?  MFJ and MFS? What is the difference? 
 

You can also file MFS and then amend to MFJ when her immigration and SSN is sorted.

Thank you, I have not actually calculated each return yet as I have been waiting on tax documents to come in and I was hoping to get this started first. But it seems likely I will have to do that to make the comparison. Amending later is definitely another option but one I would rather avoid as my income increased dramatically this year compared to last. 

[xyz_123 6]

2 hours ago, Gabriel5454 said:

My wife and I were in almost exactly the same position.  We tried going through acceptance agents but none of them were interested in dealing with normal people (as opposed to businesses, people with corporations, etc).  The IRS will accept what is called a "certified copy" of your spouse's foreign passport.  The US embassy in Honduras may be able to do this for you.  We had to email the embassy back and forth to convince them that it was absolutely necessary (the IRS won't accept a normal photocopy with apostille, the acceptance agents won't help us, etc etc).  Finally they gave my spouse an appointment to go to the embassy and make a "certified" copy.  It costs $50.  You can send this copy to the US as opposed to the original passport.

Thanks for your response, I appreciate you pointing that out since it's definitely a service they don't advertise. Just a couple of follow-up questions if you don't mind:

 

1. Did you have any problems using this "certified" copy issued by the embassy with the IRS? I only ask because the IRS pretty clearly states that they are wanting something from the original issuing agency.
2. Do we need to mail this "certified" copy to the US, or would it be suitable to scan it and send a digital copy which I could then print out to submit with my taxes? Just sending a simple letter by post is pretty expensive.
3. Do you happen to know if the "certifying acceptance agent" has to see the documents in person? I'm assuming that is the case but I just thought it might be worth finding one in the US if they can do this online.

Thanks again!

Edited February 17, 2022 by xyz_123

[Wuozopo 4,293]

6 minutes ago, xyz_123 said:

Amending later is definitely another option but one I would rather avoid as my income increased dramatically this year compared to last. 

If you owe the IRS as MFS, you will get refunded the extra you may pay now when you amend.  You won’t be totally giving up the benefit. 

[Gabriel5454 19]

6 minutes ago, xyz_123 said:

Thanks for your response, I appreciate you pointing that out since it's definitely a service they don't advertise. Just a couple of follow-up questions if you don't mind:

 

1. Did you have any problems using this "certified" copy issued by the embassy with the IRS? I only ask because the IRS pretty clearly states that they are wanting something from the original issuing agency.
2. Do we need to mail this "certified" copy to the US, or would it be suitable to scan it and send a digital copy which I could then print out to submit with my taxes? Just sending a simple letter by post is pretty expensive.
3. Do you happen to know if the "certifying acceptance agent" has to see the documents in person? I'm assuming that is the case but I just thought it might be worth finding one in the US if they can do this online.

Thanks again!

 

 

1.).  From Page 3 of the instructions of form W-7 (https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/iw7.pdf):

"You must submit original documents, or certified copies of these documents from the issuing agency, that support the information provided on Form W-7. A certified copy of a document is one that the original issuing agency provides and certifies as an exact copy of the original document and contains an official stamped seal from the agency. You may be able to request a certified copy of documents at an embassy or consulate. However, services may vary between countries, so it’s recommended that you contact the appropriate consulate or embassy for specific information."

 

2.). You would have to mail the certified copy to the US, unfortunately.  However it is just a normal photocopy of the passport plus a paper from the embassy, so presumably it will make it through customs more easily.

 

3.). As far as I know, yes, but I'm not 100% sure.

 

Also I should point out that if your spouse gets their social security number before the tax filing deadline for 2021 (so April, or October if you file for an extension) then they are eligible to receive the $1400 stimulus credit.  Not sure how far along your spouse is in the immigration journey if that would be feasible, but that is another option (to file for an extension).

[Wuozopo 4,293]

6 minutes ago, xyz_123 said:

Do we need to mail this "certified" copy to the US, or would it be suitable to scan it and send a digital copy which I could then print out to submit with my taxes? Just sending a simple letter by post is pretty expensive.

The IRS want the original certified copy. You are going to have to evaluate how much mailing is going to be required for the ITIN process.  
You will have to prepare:

• the joint tax return,
• the statement electing for her to be treated as a resident alien,
• her W7 application

and mail all those to her to sign. Then she returns all those along with a certified passport document to you before you can send to Austin, Texas.

[xyz_123 6]

7 minutes ago, Wuozopo said:

The IRS want the original certified copy. You are going to have to evaluate how much mailing is going to be required for the ITIN process.  
You will have to prepare:

• the joint tax return,
• the statement electing for her to be treated as a resident alien,
• her W7 application

and mail all those to her to sign. Then she returns all those along with a certified passport document to you before you can send to Austin, Texas.

Thanks for clarifying that process. Theoretically, I could send her the relevant forms to sign which she could then print out there I suppose (to avoid paying postage both ways). Or am I overlooking something? 

[xyz_123 6]

11 minutes ago, Gabriel5454 said:

 

 

1.).  From Page 3 of the instructions of form W-7 (https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/iw7.pdf):

"You must submit original documents, or certified copies of these documents from the issuing agency, that support the information provided on Form W-7. A certified copy of a document is one that the original issuing agency provides and certifies as an exact copy of the original document and contains an official stamped seal from the agency. You may be able to request a certified copy of documents at an embassy or consulate. However, services may vary between countries, so it’s recommended that you contact the appropriate consulate or embassy for specific information."

 

2.). You would have to mail the certified copy to the US, unfortunately.  However it is just a normal photocopy of the passport plus a paper from the embassy, so presumably it will make it through customs more easily.

 

3.). As far as I know, yes, but I'm not 100% sure.

 

Also I should point out that if your spouse gets their social security number before the tax filing deadline for 2021 (so April, or October if you file for an extension) then they are eligible to receive the $1400 stimulus credit.  Not sure how far along your spouse is in the immigration journey if that would be feasible, but that is another option (to file for an extension).

Thanks for your help!

 

1. I did see that statement about embassies on the W-7 instructions but I interpreted it as the beneficiary's embassy in a third country as opposed to the US embassy in the beneficiary's country. I'm sure you're correct though having gone through this process yourself.
2. Yes, even mailing that would be preferred as it is less risky for customs and we don't have to worry about losing the original passport. Doing it this way would probably be $150 total (embassy fees + shipping) which is still better than the $200 plus we were quoted using some sort of broker.
3. I came across a website claiming to do this online but it doesn't seem very credible and I can't find reviews that I trust--so I won't be using them. That's the only reason I bring it up.

We just filed last month and NOA2 is probably 10-16 months away, so that probably isn't an option for us unfortunately.

[xyz_123 6]

54 minutes ago, xyz_123 said:

Do you happen to know if the "certifying acceptance agent" has to see the documents in person? I'm assuming that is the case but I just thought it might be worth finding one in the US if they can do this online.

I seem to have found an answer to this for anyone else who is wondering. https://www.irs.gov/individuals/new-itin-acceptance-agent-program-changes

 

Under "Document Certificating Process" it says:

Quote

AAs and CAAs must conduct an in-person interview with each applicant (primary, secondary and dependent) in order to complete the application. Video conferencing (i.e., SKYPE) can be used if the CAA has the original identification documents or certified copies from the issuing agency in their possession during the interview.

 

[Wuozopo 4,293]

37 minutes ago, xyz_123 said:

Thanks for clarifying that process. Theoretically, I could send her the relevant forms to sign which she could then print out there I suppose (to avoid paying postage both ways). Or am I overlooking something? 

Sure. 

[xyz_123 6]

3 hours ago, Gabriel5454 said:

My wife and I were in almost exactly the same position.  We tried going through acceptance agents but none of them were interested in dealing with normal people (as opposed to businesses, people with corporations, etc).  The IRS will accept what is called a "certified copy" of your spouse's foreign passport.  The US embassy in Honduras may be able to do this for you.  We had to email the embassy back and forth to convince them that it was absolutely necessary (the IRS won't accept a normal photocopy with apostille, the acceptance agents won't help us, etc etc).  Finally they gave my spouse an appointment to go to the embassy and make a "certified" copy.  It costs $50.  You can send this copy to the US as opposed to the original passport.

The embassy just responded to me with a canned message letting me know that limited notarial services are available for "passport appointments and notarizations" (due to covid). They also sent a link to schedule an appointment to get a certified copy by notary. In your case was your certified copy through the notary? 

[Gabriel5454 19]

5 minutes ago, xyz_123 said:

The embassy just responded to me with a canned message letting me know that limited notarial services are available for "passport appointments and notarizations" (due to covid). They also sent a link to schedule an appointment to get a certified copy by notary. In your case was your certified copy through the notary? 

We received a similar response at first.  I called the IRS to confirm and they told us that they will not accept notarized copies or apostilled copies.  Only copies certified by the US embassy or the originally issuing agency.  You can also call the IRS to confirm but it might take a little time to get through to someone.  

[xyz_123 6]

51 minutes ago, Gabriel5454 said:

We received a similar response at first.  I called the IRS to confirm and they told us that they will not accept notarized copies or apostilled copies.  Only copies certified by the US embassy or the originally issuing agency.  You can also call the IRS to confirm but it might take a little time to get through to someone.  

Thanks, it is confusing because they referred to it as a certified copy. "To schedule an appointment to have a certified copy by a notary..." I will reach out again and see if I can clarify this point.