CBP officer stamped by passport- out for 4 months

[coolhead 0]

Please find below my trips last year

3 April to 3 July-- 91 days (India)
3 -Sept to 12 Sept- 10 days (Maldivies, India)
24 Oct to 12 Jan- 81 days (India)

When I entered USA this 12 Jan. CBP officer stamped my passport 'Out for 4 months' and warned me that during my next entry they will take my green card. I planning to take trip of 3-4 weeks in July 2022. will that create issue.

During the above trips, I had my job in USA (working remotely from India), slary was paid in US account and surely will file taxes. I am visiting India frequently only beacuse my spouse is in INdia and her visa is gettig delayed due to COVID. I just want to check how much should i wait for next trip. I will keep the trip short but what should be ideal time so that CBP will not give me headache.

[Mike E 11,739]

20 minutes ago, coolhead said:

3 April to 3 July-- 91 days (India)
3 -Sept to 12 Sept- 10 days (Maldivies, India)
24 Oct to 12 Jan- 81 days (India)

So out of the past 284 days you were out 182 days. That is too much.  142 is the most you should have traveled.  
 

20 minutes ago, coolhead said:

I planning to take trip of 3-4 weeks in July 2022. will that create issue.

So assuming you return to USA on July 28, that will be 210 days in 481 days.  
 

It will also be 3 + 10 + 81 + 28 = 122 days since July 1, 2021, in 392 days.  
 

This might be ok.  However you’ve been effectively told not travel. 
 

See https://help.cbp.gov/s/article/Article-3671?language=en_US#:~:text=The CBP officer will collect,final determination on your case to understand what happens CBP concludes you’ve abandoned status.  

I would file I-131 at a minimum, and I consult with a lawyer. But then again I would not have traveled so much.  

Edited February 9, 2022 by Mike E

[coolhead 0]

14 minutes ago, Mike E said:

So out of the past 284 days you were out 182 days. That is too much.  142 is the most you should have traveled.  
 

So assuming you return to USA on July 28, that will be 210 days in 481 days.  
 

It will also be 3 + 10 + 81 + 28 = 122 days since July 1, 2021, in 392 days.  
 

This might be ok.  However you’ve been effectively told not travel. 
 

See https://help.cbp.gov/s/article/Article-3671?language=en_US#:~:text=The CBP officer will collect,final determination on your case to understand what happens CBP concludes you’ve abandoned status.  

I would file I-131 at a minimum, and I consult with a lawyer. But then again I would not have traveled so much.  

Actaually lawyer told me that your stay was less than 180 days in each trip and you have valid reason(my spouse is in india due to backlog in visa) and my job is in USA. he told me not to worry and don't sign anything and get the documents ready like paystubs, tax return, lease ... He told me that CBP officer was wrong, he should n't have put that stamp.

 

 

As you mentioned I have been told that i shouldn't travel, so it means i shouldn't travel for rest of the life as GC or i shouldn't repeat the pattern or what is the safwest number of days should i wait..?

Edited February 9, 2022 by coolhead

[aratamorne 165]

Well each stay was under 180 days, however if you look at the full aggregate duration, you spent more time outside the US than inside the US.  The CBP officer is better at math than your lawyer.  I would stay put for at least 6 months.  Fully understand the desire to be with your wife, but plenty of folks on here are in the same boat of being stuck apart during this COVID backlog.  Do you really want to spend a bunch of money arguing your case if there is a negative impact the next time you travelled.... I wouldn't, especially if CBP put a mark in your passport.

[coolhead 0]

6 minutes ago, aratamorne said:

Well each stay was under 180 days, however if you look at the full aggregate duration, you spent more time outside the US than inside the US.  The CBP officer is better at math than your lawyer.  I would stay put for at least 6 months.  Fully understand the desire to be with your wife, but plenty of folks on here are in the same boat of being stuck apart during this COVID backlog.  Do you really want to spend a bunch of money arguing your case if there is a negative impact the next time you travelled.... I wouldn't, especially if CBP put a mark in your passport.

so that the suggestion is should i wait for 6 months from 12 Jan to 12 july and then i can plan small trip..... just looking for timeframe like when it will be safe to travel.

[coolhead 0]

11 minutes ago, aratamorne said:

Well each stay was under 180 days, however if you look at the full aggregate duration, you spent more time outside the US than inside the US.  The CBP officer is better at math than your lawyer.  I would stay put for at least 6 months.  Fully understand the desire to be with your wife, but plenty of folks on here are in the same boat of being stuck apart during this COVID backlog.  Do you really want to spend a bunch of money arguing your case if there is a negative impact the next time you travelled.... I wouldn't, especially if CBP put a mark in your passport.

How do they check aggregaret, do they calculate 1 year before the day we arrived or any financail year (like if i will have in July, will check from Jan 2022 to July 22 or July 2021 ro July 22) 

[Mike E 11,739]

49 minutes ago, coolhead said:

Actaually lawyer told me that your stay was less than 180 days in each trip

Well if your lawyer says it’s ok, why are you asking us? 
 

Ask your lawyer  if is ok to travel for 179 days, come back to the USA for 2 days and then leave for 179 days, come back for 2 days, etc. 

 

In Chavez-Ramirez v INS the court stated: 

 

With this understanding, we hold that a permanent resident returns from a "temporary visit abroad" only when (a) the permanent resident's visit is for "a period relatively short, fixed by some early event,"4 or (b) the permanent resident's visit will terminate upon the occurrence of an event having a reasonable possibility of occurring within a relatively short period of time.5

 

The court didn’t define temporary or short.  
 

You aren’t the first one to be hassled or threatened by CBP for pattern of travel where the majority of your time is outside the USA. 
 

Quote

 

and you have valid reason(my spouse is in india due to backlog in visa) and my job is in USA. he told me not to worry and don't sign anything and get the documents ready like paystubs, tax return, lease ... He told me that CBP officer was wrong, he should n't have put that stamp.

I agree with 2/3s of what he told you.  If you are ok with a CBP officer threatening you on every return, then carry on.  

Quote

 

 

As you mentioned I have been told that i shouldn't travel, so it means i shouldn't travel for rest of the life as GC or i shouldn't repeat the pattern or what is the safwest number of days should i wait..?

I think you should

 

* spend no more than 150 days per calendar year and in any rolling 365 day period outside the USA.  

 

* when you travel away for X days and come back travel again for X+1 days or the length of your next planned trip, which every is higher.  

 

*  file I-131.  
 

* budget 5 hours for international to domestic the connections upon return to the USA 

Edited February 9, 2022 by Mike E

[coolhead 0]

3 minutes ago, Mike E said:

Well if your lawyer says it’s ok, why are you asking us? 
 

Ask your lawyer  if is ok to travel for 179 days, come back to the USA for 2 days and then leave for 179 days, come back for 2 days, etc. 

 

In Chavez-Ramirez v INS the court stated: 

 

With this understanding, we hold that a permanent resident returns from a "temporary visit abroad" only when (a) the permanent resident's visit is for "a period relatively short, fixed by some early event,"4 or (b) the permanent resident's visit will terminate upon the occurrence of an event having a reasonable possibility of occurring within a relatively short period of time.5

 

The court didn’t define temporary or short.  
 

You aren’t the first one to be hassled or threatened by CBP for pattern of travel where the majority of your times is outside the USA. 
 

I agree with 2/3s of what he told boy.  If you are ok with a CBP officer threatening you on every return, then carry on.  

I think you should

 

* spend no more than 150 days per calendar year and in any rolling 365 day period outside the USA.  

 

* when you travel away for X days and come back travel again for X+1 days or the length of your next planned trip, which every is higher.  

 

*  file I-131.  
 

* budget 5 hours for international to domestic the connections upon return to the USA 

I know this pattren is wrong

 

179 days, come back to the USA for 2 days and then leave for 179 days, come back for 2 days, etc

 

Did you find similar pattern in my trips. I am just asking how much should i wait befor next trip of 2-3 weeks? Looking at your response i should wait for atlease till August before next trip, right..?

[arken 4,197]

You pattern so far:

3 months out

2 months in

10 days out

~ 1 month in

~ 3 months out

 

Compare OUT vs IN. CBP suspected you are gonna keep doing that by gaming the system so stamped you that way and said they will take your GC on the next trip which they guessed will happen in 1-3 months (follow your lawyer's advice if they try to take the GC on your next trip regardless)

 

Usually CBP simply asks few additional questions if one trip is over 6 months but less than one year as long as the person is not repeating it. However i guess they get irked and think someone is making fool of them by trying to stay abroad more than in the US in multiple short trips.

 

There's no straight answer in what's best time for you to travel but I'd say stay in the US for at least 6 months before traveling.

 

 

Edited February 9, 2022 by arken

[coolhead 0]

12 minutes ago, arken said:

You pattern so far:

3 months out

2 months in

10 days out

~ 1 month in

~ 3 months out

 

Compare OUT vs IN. CBP suspected you are gonna keep doing that by gaming the system so stamped you that way and said they will take your GC on the next trip which they guessed will happen in 1-3 months (follow your lawyer's advice if they try to take the GC on your next trip regardless)

 

Usually CBP simply asks few additional questions if one trip is over 6 months but less than one year as long as the person is not repeating it. However i guess they get irked and think someone is making fool of them by trying to stay abroad more than in the US in multiple short trips.

 

There's no straight answer in what's best time for you to travel but I'd say stay in the US for at least 6 months before traveling.

 

 

Yes u r right..  I even had retruned ticket and now i have cancelled it and i will spend uniterrupted 6-7 months in USA before next trip.

Edited February 9, 2022 by coolhead

[coolhead 0]

17 minutes ago, arken said:

You pattern so far:

3 months out

2 months in

10 days out

~ 1 month in

~ 3 months out

 

Compare OUT vs IN. CBP suspected you are gonna keep doing that by gaming the system so stamped you that way and said they will take your GC on the next trip which they guessed will happen in 1-3 months (follow your lawyer's advice if they try to take the GC on your next trip regardless)

 

Usually CBP simply asks few additional questions if one trip is over 6 months but less than one year as long as the person is not repeating it. However i guess they get irked and think someone is making fool of them by trying to stay abroad more than in the US in multiple short trips.

 

There's no straight answer in what's best time for you to travel but I'd say stay in the US for at least 6 months before traveling.

 

 

Just last question. if i travel lets say after 8-9 months, can they penalize me for my past mistake or mostly they let it go if i spend considerable amount of time in USA.

[CMJuilland 485]

9 hours ago, coolhead said:

Just last question. if i travel lets say after 8-9 months, can they penalize me for my past mistake or mostly they let it go if i spend considerable amount of time in USA.

Can they “penalize” you and send you to secondary?  Sure.  That’s always possible.  Will they?  Nobody can tell you for certain.  

That being said and taking your past patterns into consideration, it would be wise to stay put for 8-9 months.  Furthermore, your next trip should probably not be a multiple months long one either if you want to avoid being questioned at the border.  A week or two would be a good next pattern. 

It’s always a good idea to see the situation from the respective officer’s perspective: a green card is for actually living in the United States, not for visiting.  An officer suspecting you of doing this might or will bring this up.  While CBP can’t take away your LPR status or your physical GC unless you sign the respective document, it is at their discretion to admit you as being admitted to the U.S. is a right reserved for citizens. 

I understand how hard it is to be away from your spouse (most of us do, and I’m sure most of us feel for you).  However, if you want a future for you guys together over here in the U.S., it looks like it’s necessary to make some sacrifices now.  

Good luck with everything! 

Edited February 9, 2022 by CMJuilland

[arken 4,197]

11 hours ago, coolhead said:

Just last question. if i travel lets say after 8-9 months, can they penalize me for my past mistake or mostly they let it go if i spend considerable amount of time in USA.

They may question you here n there same way they may question all others but i don't see them giving you hard time or not allowing you in after traveling after 8-9 months. 
 

Travel pattern of 1-2 months after staying in the US for 6-8 months usually should be of no big deal.

[Mike E 11,739]

3 hours ago, CMJuilland said:

While CBP can't take away your LPR status

Correct.  

Quote

or
your physical GC

Not correct.  CBP can take your physical GC.  It must replace it with an alternate I-551 if it does. 

As per CBP policy (see link later in this post):

 

“You can contest the abandonment charge in immigration court. To do this, you will need to inform the CBP officer that you would like to appear before an immigration judge and check the appropriate box on form I-862 (Notice to Appear), which will be provided to you. The CBP officer will collect your actual green card, but will give you a temporary replacement document that confirms that you continue to be a permanent resident of the United States (until the immigration judge makes a final determination on your case). ”

 

 

Quote

unless you sign the
respective document, it is at their discretion to
admit you as being admitted to the U.S. is a
right reserved for citizens. 

Not correct.  An LPR is an LPR until a judge removes that status or the LPR voluntarily and without coercion relinquishes it.  
 

“You will then be paroled into the United States. With the temporary replacement document, you will retain the ability to leave and re-enter the United States and work in the United States while your immigration court proceedings are pending.”

 

 

See https://help.cbp.gov/s/article/Article-3671?language=en_US#:~:text=The CBP officer will collect,final determination on your case

 

At a port of entry in USA soil, CBP has no discretion here.  
 

Now it is true that CBP is known to threaten  an LPR otherwise, threaten an LPR with (illegal) ICE detention, and there are instances of CBP  illegally removing  LPRs (and USA citizens) from USA soil.  
 

And these are the risks OP is taking on by continuing to spend more days outside the USA than inside.  
 

5 months in any rolling 12 month period is the most I would ever consider as an LPR, and even then I would file I-131 before doing  so.  Otherwise, 120 days in any rolling 12 month period.   

 

Edited February 9, 2022 by Mike E

[CMJuilland 485]

@Mike E Thank you so much for clarifying that; I stand corrected and retract the wrong statements I made before.   I was clearly misinformed and appreciate the explanation.  Thank you!