Secondary Evidence Instead of Foreign Birth Certificate

[Onelife786 54]

3 hours ago, powerpuff said:

Just a note on the availability of birth certificates. From USCIS Policy Manual on Birth Certificates:

 

”Officers should check the Department of State's Country Reciprocity Schedule to determine availability of birth certificates as well as acceptable secondary evidence of birth for specific countries.”

https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-7-part-a-chapter-4

 

USCIS officers will go by the Reciprocity Schedule and if it says “Available” in the birth certificate section, they will be expecting it from you. And if you go to the Pakistan section there, it does say that birth certificates are available. So I’m afraid your reason for not having it won’t fly with USCIS. That’s just my take of this. “Not Available” for a country is very rare. One of these is Somalia which is expected as it’s a failed state amidst a civil war with an almost non functioning government. Hence on its reciprocity schedule it states that birth certificates are unavailable and they outline what is acceptable secondary evidence. This is not the case for Pakistan.

 

To add, birth certificates are absolutely required for the K1 interview (not the petition stage).

Dear, I had K1 fiance visa and travelled to US on it on my Pakistani passport. (Whole process including interview)

They did not want, ask or needed BC

 

I guess I will have to apply for FRC form. Pakistani government do not issue BC through their consulate general to foreigners Maybe yes if I go back to Pakistan and get the duplicate BC (ridiculous as GC case does not allow travel)

 

Pakistan goverment issues FRC which shows family tree

 

https://id.nadra.gov.pk/identity-documents/identity-frc/#Q1

 

 

 

[igoyougoduke 1,656]

here is what it says for pakistan on DOS site.  do you have alternate school records if not you need to find a birth certificate for them to allow AOS 

 

Alternate Documents: In lieu of a birth certificate, Pakistanis often use Child Registration Certificates or Family Registration Certificates (FRC), which list all family members and document each member’s relationship to the other.

Exceptions: None

Comments: Birth records are inconsistent because most people only request one when required for a specific reason. Late-registered births are thus quite common.  In cases when the date of birth is in issue (such as age-limited immigrant visa classes), other contemporaneous documents such as school records are often reviewed. Birth certificates can be in either English or Urdu with English translation.

[igoyougoduke 1,656]

5 minutes ago, Onelife786 said:

Dear, I had K1 fiance visa and travelled to US on it on my Pakistani passport. (Whole process including interview)

They did not want, ask or needed BC

 

I guess I will have to apply for FRC form. Pakistani government do not issue BC through their consulate general to foreigners Maybe yes if I go back to Pakistan and get the duplicate BC (ridiculous as GC case does not allow travel)

 

Pakistan goverment issues FRC which shows family tree

 

https://id.nadra.gov.pk/identity-documents/identity-frc/#Q1

 

 

 

dont blame the US government for your issues of not having a birth certificate. its your problem not the government's problem

[Onelife786 54]

4 minutes ago, igoyougoduke said:

dont blame the US government for your issues of not having a birth certificate. its your problem not the government's problem

Nobody blaming nobody

 

These forms are here to learn, we all learning. I wanted to know if there were any possibilities.

I am just saying there should always be secondary/alternative proof/evidence options.
This is not human that if you do not have that you cannot ever prove something
Other countries' immigration departments i.e. UK, Canada, and European countries give you options in case a document is not available lost, or stolen, you can prove things by submitting other evidence.

1. My UK passport has my place of birth in it

2. My Pakistani passport has a place of birth it

3. My UK naturalization certificate has my place of birth in it

4. My Pakistani Identity card has my place of birth as well as my father's name on it

Just saying there should be other options given to prove the fact/point

Anyway, thank you everyone for your very informative, valuable responses. I have gotten the point

I was seeking the information on any possibilities, and from your responses, I now am clear that I need this one particular document as is, otherwise there is no way to prove where I was born.

Many thanks again.

[powerpuff 6,700]

14 minutes ago, Onelife786 said:

Dear, I had K1 fiance visa and travelled to US on it on my Pakistani passport. (Whole process including interview)

They did not want, ask or needed BC

Dear, just because they didn’t ask you on that one occasion, does not mean it is not an actual requirement.  Please don’t mislead others who might be going through the same process. 
 

Per the US consulate Islamabad page, under K1 fiancé visa section, they have a link to required documents on the department of state website (since consulted are under dept of state):

“To apply for a fiancée visa, follow the steps on the Fiancé(e) Visa Process on usvisas.state.gov.”

https://pk.usembassy.gov/visas/immigrant-visas/fiancee-visa/how-to-apply/

 

On that page:

 

Required Documentation

 

You, the foreign-citizen fiancé(e), (and eligible children applying for K-2 visas) will be required to bring the following forms and documents to the visa interview:

• Completed Form DS-160, Online Nonimmigrant Visa Application. You (and any eligible children applying for K-2 visas) must: (1) complete Form DS-160 and (2) print the DS-160 confirmation page to bring to your interview. 
• A passport valid for travel to the United States and with a validity date at least six months beyond your intended period of stay in the U.S. (unless country-specific agreements provide exemptions).
• Birth certificate. ⬅️⬅️⬅️⬅️⬅️⬅️
• Divorce or death certificate(s) of any previous spouse(s) for both you and the U.S. citizen sponsor
• Police certificates from your present country of residence and all countries where you have lived for six months or more since age 16 (Police certificates are also required for accompanying children age 16 or older)
• Medical examination (vaccinations are optional, see below)
• Evidence of financial support (Form I-134, Affidavit of Support, may be requested)
• Two (2) 2x2 photographs. See the required photo format explained in Photograph Requirements
• Evidence of relationship with your U.S. citizen fiancé(e)
• Payment of fees, as explained below

 

Moreover, here in VJ for Islamabad consulate information filled by those who went though Islamabad:

Packet 3.5 for K1 Visas 

1. Completion of DS-160 Electronic Visa Application Form
2. Civil Document: 
� Original Birth Certificate with English translation and one photocopy. ⬅️⬅️⬅️⬅️⬅️⬅️
� Marriage Certificate for any current or prior marriages (if applicable), English translation and photocopy. 
� Divorce/Death Certificates for any prior marriages (if applicable), English translation and one photocopy.
� Police certificate(s) from any country (except U.S., Pakistan, Afghanistan and India) where you are currently living or have lived for more than one year after the age of 16.  
� 2 visa photos against a white background, measuring 2x2 inches. Please note that photos must be natural and not cropped. We highly recommend that all applicants review our photo guidelines to make sure the photos are correct before submitting them to the Immigrant Visa Unit. (Please right click here for more information on photos.)
� Photocopy of the first two passport pages for each applicant. It is particularly important that we have a photocopy of any pages listing your personal information (name, date of birth, place of birth) and showing your photo. Please do not mail your passport to the Immigrant Visa Unit � instead, you will need to bring it with you to the interview."

Affidavit of Support

I-134

 

https://www.visajourney.com/consulates/index.php?ctry=Pakistan&cty=Islamabad

 

 

[Wuozopo 4,293]

7 hours ago, Wuozopo said:

Did you follow their instruction?

Go to https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/Visa-Reciprocity-and-Civil-Documents-by-Country.html

Find your country then scroll down to see how to get a birth certificate. 

@Onelife786
You never answered the question I asked earlier (quoted above). Others and your RFE have mentioned the same thing.  It will tell you how to order a birth certificate from Pakistan. If one is available, then you must order one and not use secondary evidence. 

 

So have you looked at the link and what did you find out?

[Onelife786 54]

9 minutes ago, Wuozopo said:

@Onelife786
You never answered the question I asked earlier (quoted above). Others and your RFE have mentioned the same thing.  It will tell you how to order a birth certificate from Pakistan. If one is available, then you must order one and not use secondary evidence. 

 

So have you looked at the link and what did you find out?

Sorry I missed to answer.

 

I did check this prior to starting this thread and I checked it again just now

All it says is Pakistan does do BCs

 

Pakistani government does not issue BC through their consulate general offices to foreigners. Maybe yes if I go back to Pakistan and get the duplicate BC in person from municipal (ridiculous as GC case does not allow travel)

 

The question is, how I can get this document since I am not in Pakistan, have no ties in Pakistan, and here in the US

Pakistan government issues FRC through consular general in the USA, which shows the family tree

https://id.nadra.gov.pk/identity-documents/identity-frc/#Q1

Will this suffice?

[Onelife786 54]

46 minutes ago, powerpuff said:

Dear, just because they didn’t ask you on that one occasion, does not mean it is not an actual requirement.  Please don’t mislead others who might be going through the same process. 
 

Per the US consulate Islamabad page, under K1 fiancé visa section, they have a link to required documents on the department of state website (since consulted are under dept of state):

“To apply for a fiancée visa, follow the steps on the Fiancé(e) Visa Process on usvisas.state.gov.”

https://pk.usembassy.gov/visas/immigrant-visas/fiancee-visa/how-to-apply/

 

On that page:

 

Required Documentation

 

You, the foreign-citizen fiancé(e), (and eligible children applying for K-2 visas) will be required to bring the following forms and documents to the visa interview:

• Completed Form DS-160, Online Nonimmigrant Visa Application. You (and any eligible children applying for K-2 visas) must: (1) complete Form DS-160 and (2) print the DS-160 confirmation page to bring to your interview. 
• A passport valid for travel to the United States and with a validity date at least six months beyond your intended period of stay in the U.S. (unless country-specific agreements provide exemptions).
• Birth certificate. ⬅️⬅️⬅️⬅️⬅️⬅️
• Divorce or death certificate(s) of any previous spouse(s) for both you and the U.S. citizen sponsor
• Police certificates from your present country of residence and all countries where you have lived for six months or more since age 16 (Police certificates are also required for accompanying children age 16 or older)
• Medical examination (vaccinations are optional, see below)
• Evidence of financial support (Form I-134, Affidavit of Support, may be requested)
• Two (2) 2x2 photographs. See the required photo format explained in Photograph Requirements
• Evidence of relationship with your U.S. citizen fiancé(e)
• Payment of fees, as explained below

 

Moreover, here in VJ for Islamabad consulate information filled by those who went though Islamabad:

Packet 3.5 for K1 Visas 

1. Completion of DS-160 Electronic Visa Application Form
2. Civil Document: 
� Original Birth Certificate with English translation and one photocopy. ⬅️⬅️⬅️⬅️⬅️⬅️
� Marriage Certificate for any current or prior marriages (if applicable), English translation and photocopy. 
� Divorce/Death Certificates for any prior marriages (if applicable), English translation and one photocopy.
� Police certificate(s) from any country (except U.S., Pakistan, Afghanistan and India) where you are currently living or have lived for more than one year after the age of 16.  
� 2 visa photos against a white background, measuring 2x2 inches. Please note that photos must be natural and not cropped. We highly recommend that all applicants review our photo guidelines to make sure the photos are correct before submitting them to the Immigrant Visa Unit. (Please right click here for more information on photos.)
� Photocopy of the first two passport pages for each applicant. It is particularly important that we have a photocopy of any pages listing your personal information (name, date of birth, place of birth) and showing your photo. Please do not mail your passport to the Immigrant Visa Unit � instead, you will need to bring it with you to the interview."

Affidavit of Support

I-134

 

https://www.visajourney.com/consulates/index.php?ctry=Pakistan&cty=Islamabad

 

 

Dear, calm down

 

I have never said in any of my posts that this is the rule that you do not need BC

 

Nobody is mis-leading anyone here

 

Like I said, we are learning and sharing experiences here

 

I just shared my personal expeirence. If somebody is going to be mis-lead by just reading personal experiences than I unfortunately cannot do anything.

 

We are allowed to share our personal experiences here, are we?

 

You are right. The rules are rules 

[powerpuff 6,700]

27 minutes ago, Onelife786 said:

Dear, calm down

 

I have never said in any of my posts that this is the rule that you do not need BC

 

Nobody is mis-leading anyone here

 

Like I said, we are learning and sharing experiences here

 

I just shared my personal expeirence. If somebody is going to be mis-lead by just reading personal experiences than I unfortunately cannot do anything.

 

We are allowed to share our personal experiences here, are we?

 

You are right. The rules are rules 

First of all, I’m not the one who started being condescending, “dear”. 
 

Second of all, while you didn’t say it’s not a requirement, you also didn’t acknowledge that it is, despite your experience. So yes, it is misleading to those who might think it’s ok to not request a BC in case they don’t have one. 
 

To anyone reading this who doesn’t have a BC, please acquire it while you have a chance so you don’t run into issues like this. BC’s are a required document at virtually every step of US immigration process, regardless of your ties to your home country.
 

Good luck getting your BC and answering your RFE. I’m out. 
 

 

[arken 4,197]

You can't provide wat you don't have. Provide watever dicuments you have that shows your name, DOB, parents name, place and such. In addition provide two affidavits of birth- best is from father and mother. If your parents are not alive, provide affidavits from one who were there/nearby when you were born.

[Onelife786 54]

25 minutes ago, arken said:

You can't provide wat you don't have. Provide watever dicuments you have that shows your name, DOB, parents name, place and such. In addition provide two affidavits of birth- best is from father and mother. If your parents are not alive, provide affidavits from one who were there/nearby when you were born.

Now this is reasonable and totally fair argument.

 

Thank you for this. 

[Calicolom 266]

8 hours ago, Onelife786 said:

I am using british citizenship and not Pakistani.

 

I do not have any ties in Pakistan.

 

When I applied for british citizenship, british consulate gives you option to provide secondary/alternative evidence option such as Pakistani ID which shows proof of place of birth.

 

My british Naturalization certifiacate also has place of birth. My british passport also has place of birth mentioned.

 

Our marriage is 6 years old. We have an approved K1 fiance petition in 2015 (same partner). We just never pursued GC route, and lived in the UK

 

What I do not understand is why they need this, They never asked for this during K1 petition, I submitted Pakistani passport copy during K1 finace petion in 2015

 

British citizenship gives us secondary evidence options i.e. Pakistani passport which states place of birth.

My british passport also have place of birth 

 

Not sure why you need this

 

So there is no way any secondary document can be used?

When I applied for Retirement Social Security benefits in the US social security requested ny german birth certificate. I have lived in the US for 60 years, and have been a naturalized US citizen for 55 years. You better get you birth certificate, FROM THE COUNTRY YOU WERE BORN you will need it again.  Unless you were born in Britain.

[Onelife786 54]

3 minutes ago, Calicolom said:

When I applied for Retirement Social Security benefits in the US social security requested ny german birth certificate. I have lived in the US for 60 years, and have been a naturalized US citizen for 55 years. You better get you birth certificate, FROM THE COUNTRY YOU WERE BORN you will need it again.  Unless you were born in Britain.

Ok

 

Thank you for your advice . Will do 

[Pizookie 52]

10 minutes ago, Onelife786 said:

Now this is reasonable and totally fair argument.

 

Thank you for this. 

But if you go this route and they are not happy that you didn't follow their rules, they may deny your application or issue another RFE. 

 

Like I said before, I would highly recommend you fill out the timeline feature on Visa Journey so others can provide you with more useful advice. Without knowing your proper and most recent immigration history, it really is hard to decipher what is going on.

 

If your K1 process was done in 2015, how are you entering the US after so many years? Or did you do K1 again now, more recently? 

[Calicolom 266]

2 hours ago, Onelife786 said:

Nobody blaming nobody

 

These forms are here to learn, we all learning. I wanted to know if there were any possibilities.

I am just saying there should always be secondary/alternative proof/evidence options.
This is not human that if you do not have that you cannot ever prove something
Other countries' immigration departments i.e. UK, Canada, and European countries give you options in case a document is not available lost, or stolen, you can prove things by submitting other evidence.

1. My UK passport has my place of birth in it

2. My Pakistani passport has a place of birth it

3. My UK naturalization certificate has my place of birth in it

4. My Pakistani Identity card has my place of birth as well as my father's name on it

Just saying there should be other options given to prove the fact/point

Anyway, thank you everyone for your very informative, valuable responses. I have gotten the point

I was seeking the information on any possibilities, and from your responses, I now am clear that I need this one particular document as is, otherwise there is no way to prove where I was born.

Many thanks again.

You Will need your birth certificate, from the country you were born in. Not from any other country. All the other county's do not check where you were you born. They only are interested in there requirements for a passport. If you want to work, and and then retire in the US, and get social security. You best have a birth certificate. Otherwise you will not get social security. You can have all the passports, including from countries that sell passports.