Has anyone recently obtained a police certificate from Spain?

[Km13 2]

My fiancee and I are having an extremely hard time with her police certificates. 

 

Spain issued her an electronic police certificate with an apostille. This was rejected at the K-1 interview (Warsaw) because it is an electronic copy. We contacted Spain, they say they only issue electronic copies. My fiancee wrote again to Spain to ask for an original hard copy, but they told us it will look exactly the same as the electronic one and will also have an electronic stamp and a QR code. They also said that they have never heard of anyone having a problem with their electronic certificates, that they are legal originals.

 

Warsaw insists we are wrong, and each time we have emailed them, we get some generic response saying to make sure the police report was obtained following the guidelines on the travel.state.gov website (it was). On this website, it even says that Spanish police certificates are usually electronic. 

 

We are currently facing the exact same situation with her French police certificate which was also rejected at the interview... our solution to this is she will actually fly to France to have the electronic form apostilled. But with Spain, the form already has an apostille, so what to do?! Is there some government office that could stamp the police report with a real stamp, and not an electronic one? 

 

Of course we have evidence that the police certificates were obtained in the correct manner, are legal and acceptable according to the state department's own guidelines, but we are weary just to show up at the Warsaw embassy because they wouldn't listen to us in the past. Also we are currently living in Russia, with travel restrictions it's not so easy for us to get to Poland, we don't want to waste even more time and money, etc.

 

Just wondering if there is anyone else in the same situation. Would appreciate any ideas or suggestions, thank you.

[Allaboutwaiting 2,503]

You can get one at any Spanish embassy or consulate in Russia.

[Mike E 11,742]

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/Visa-Reciprocity-and-Civil-Documents-by-Country/Spain.html Says Warsaw is wrong.  
 

 

[Km13 2]

1 hour ago, Allaboutwaiting said:

You can get one at any Spanish embassy or consulate in Russia.

Unfortunately that's not possible, my fiancee is Russian. 

[Km13 2]

1 hour ago, Mike E said:

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/Visa-Reciprocity-and-Civil-Documents-by-Country/Spain.html Says Warsaw is wrong.  
 

 

Yes, we've sent them e-mails quoting this exact website. They still say electronic is not okay. I don't know what to do at this point.

[Allaboutwaiting 2,503]

7 hours ago, Km13 said:

Unfortunately that's not possible, my fiancee is Russian. 

You can also request it by mail and it should be sent to your address in Russia. 

Edited January 29, 2022 by Allaboutwaiting

[Km13 2]

2 hours ago, Allaboutwaiting said:

You can also request it by mail and it should be sent to your address in Russia. 

If you read my post you can see we don’t need a certificate, we have one already. The problem is Warsaw is saying it’s not acceptable. Even if we got a new one by mail, Spain has already told us that it will be 100% identical to the electronic version. 

[Allaboutwaiting 2,503]

29 minutes ago, Km13 said:

If you read my post you can see we don’t need a certificate, we have one already. The problem is Warsaw is saying it’s not acceptable. Even if we got a new one by mail, Spain has already told us that it will be 100% identical to the electronic version. 

😑

 

I'm giving you alternatives to get a certificate printed by the Spanish authorities instead of one that was digitally generated and printed by you.

Edited January 29, 2022 by Allaboutwaiting

[Mike E 11,742]

You should try getting the non-digital certificate mailed from Sopanish as embassy as @Allaboutwaiting suggests but I share your skepticism that in the pandemic era you will get what Warsaw wants.  

 

The Administrative Procedures Act (APA) and precedent, Accardi v. Shaughnessy, might be relevant.  
 

When an agency fails to follow its own rules it is possible via a federal lawsuit to compel compliance.

 

DoS and the embassy at Warsaw are federal agencies.  The reciprocity web pages are the agency’s published rules.  Warsaw is it following its rules.  

 

It will be cheaper for the DoS in the USA to compel its CO in Warsaw to comply with its own published reciprocity rules than to defend something it isn’t going to win in court.  
 

This is going to require you to hire an immigration attorney with experience with APA cases against DoS.  

[Km13 2]

10 hours ago, Allaboutwaiting said:

😑

 

I'm giving you alternatives to get a certificate printed by the Spanish authorities instead of one that was digitally generated and printed by you.

The problem is they do not have non-digital certificates. We already received a certificate by mail from Spain and it is 100% identical to the version they emailed us. 

[Km13 2]

9 hours ago, Mike E said:

You should try getting the non-digital certificate mailed from Sopanish as embassy as @Allaboutwaiting suggests but I share your skepticism that in the pandemic era you will get what Warsaw wants.  

 

The Administrative Procedures Act (APA) and precedent, Accardi v. Shaughnessy, might be relevant.  
 

When an agency fails to follow its own rules it is possible via a federal lawsuit to compel compliance.

 

DoS and the embassy at Warsaw are federal agencies.  The reciprocity web pages are the agency’s published rules.  Warsaw is it following its rules.  

 

It will be cheaper for the DoS in the USA to compel its CO in Warsaw to comply with its own published reciprocity rules than to defend something it isn’t going to win in court.  
 

This is going to require you to hire an immigration attorney with experience with APA cases against DoS.  

Unfortunately there is no non-digital version. We got one in the mail from Spain and it’s identical to the one they emailed us. We will try to contact the DoS, thanks for your help. 

[Allaboutwaiting 2,503]

6 minutes ago, Km13 said:

The problem is they do not have non-digital certificates. We already received a certificate by mail from Spain and it is 100% identical to the version they emailed us. 

Well, best of luck with convincing the IO that the one you have is valid.

Would be useful if you come back and update on the matter.

[Km13 2]

6 minutes ago, Allaboutwaiting said:

Well, best of luck with convincing the IO that the one you have is valid.

Would be useful if you come back and update on the matter.

Will do, thanks. 👍

[MelOe 187]

In my case its a few years ago now, but I had to go to a spanish Embassy in person and present my passport to them in order to get my spanish police certificate stamped and signed by a spanish official. I'm german, but was living in the south of France at the time. I took a few days off work and travelled to Marseille, where Spain has an embassy. I was waiting when the doors opened in the morning, and could just walk in and state what I needed if I remember right. I believe I had the police report already and only needed the apostille put on it and get it signed, but I'm a bit fuzzy on the details.

I remember the french police report being really easy though, not sure why that is difficult in your case as well. I think I filled out an online request form and got it in the mail within a week or so.

Good luck!!!

[Km13 2]

Update: Warsaw never responded to any of our emails so we decided it would be best to go there in person one more time and try to explain that our documents are in fact originals. My fiancee returned to Poland, ready to explain to them why they were mistaken, had printed out screenshots from the uscis website, etc. but the woman at the front desk collecting documents barely even bothered to look at the police certificates. She asked "are these the originals?" my fiancee of course answered yes. The woman then immediately accepted them and a day later my fiancee had her visa. 

 

On the one hand we're both elated that it's over but wow this whole situation was extremely stressful, frustrating, and much more expensive than it should have been for absolutely no reason.