Why are we rushing to defend Ukraine? [merged threads]

[Dashinka 24,628]

20 minutes ago, B52Boozer said:

 

We just need to go back one president and we can all state the exact same thing; unless one is wearing a blindfold or don't really give a flying $%&% about what he did because giving a flying $%&% wouldn't not suit the present agenda ! But my comment deflect from the topic question. 

 

JoBri: thank you for your service and for your insight..

 

Interesting piece that is worth 10 minutes of your time to digest. 

 

https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/yes-you-should-care-about-ukraine 

 

Heck, you could go back two or three Presidents and say the same thing unless of course one was wearing a blindfold.  However as to the Ukraine specifically, I was not aware of anyone in the Trump family with "no show" jobs in that country.

 

As to the piece, it will be interesting to see how anything shakes out if Russia does indeed escalate things like the Biden Administration is telling us.  How will Germany react if gas supplies are stopped, how will Turkey react as they seem to like the fence sitting between NATO and Russia.  No one is going into Moscow, and the US cannot make up the supply of natural gas to Germany.  I still think nothing happens, Putin could have rolled into Kiev in 2014 when the US was sending blankets, but then again, several years of Russia building its relationship with China may make the two feel more emboldened, and if China decides to start moving to, I doubt they will stop with just Taiwan.

[STO Overland 137]

[TBoneTX 45,570]

Bidementia should invite Putin out back and beat him up.

[Dashinka 24,628]

9 hours ago, B52Boozer said:

Old Joe can channel his inner Izzy Mandelbaum.  "It's Go Time!"

Edited February 15, 2022 by Dashinka

[LIBrty4all 3,754]

it seems Russian troops are done with their "exercise" and are going home.

Who was it that mentioned the genius behind this ploy to raise gas prices?

[Dashinka 24,628]

5 hours ago, LIBrty4all said:

it seems Russian troops are done with their "exercise" and are going home.

Who was it that mentioned the genius behind this ploy to raise gas prices?

But Biden needs his ‘wag the dog’ moment, so I expect him to still play everything up.

[Neonred 3,576]

The media said today is to be the invasion day.

 

What time does the action and TV coverage start?

[LIBrty4all 3,754]

8 hours ago, Dashinka said:

But Biden needs his ‘wag the dog’ moment, so I expect him to still play everything up.

Theatrics to make Biden appear tough against Putin?

[Dashinka 24,628]

46 minutes ago, LIBrty4all said:

Theatrics to make Biden appear tough against Putin?

Biden does not look tough in my humble opinion.  He just looks like an old man babbling.

[Mike E 11,741]

Given the fatalities the Russian military  is suffering and world reaction to the invasion, Putin might have bitten off more than he can chew.  Laughing my rectum off at Kazakhstan refusing to provide troops to its ally Russia. 
 

It might be going beyond the breakaway ethnic  Russian regions was a mistake on Putin’s part.  
 

After this every country (those with  has no mutual defense pact with China, Russia, or USA) they borders a bellicose power is going to want nukes and their peoples are going to demand access to personal weapons.  
 

This all said, Ukraine made a lot of bad moves.  
 

What’s the over / under on when Ovechkin  gets career ending injury courtesy a Canadian player of Ukrainian origin?

Edited February 26, 2022 by Mike E

[iwannaplay54 985]

On 2/16/2022 at 5:12 AM, Neonred said:

The media said today is to be the invasion day.

 

What time does the action and TV coverage start?

This aged well

 

Great to see Trump admiring Putin during his “self-funded” fundraising again.  Validates our little courtesy flush 

 

In related news, while our former president is fundraising and praising Putin, their former president is stalking the street with an AK like a man.  
 

 

[Neonred 3,576]

1 hour ago, Mike E said:

Given the fatalities the Russian military  is suffering and world reaction to the invasion, Putin might have bitten off more than he can chew.  Laughing my rectum off at Kazakhstan refusing to provide troops to its ally Russia. 
 

It might be going beyond the breakaway ethnic  Russian regions was a mistake on Putin’s part.  
 

After this every country (those with  has no mutual defense pact with China, Russia, or USA) they borders a bellicose power is going to want nukes and their peoples are going to demand access to personal weapons.  
 

This all said, Ukraine made a lot of bad moves.  
 

What’s the over / under on when Ovechkin  gets career ending injury courtesy a Canadian player of Ukrainian origin?

We noted that the one group of fighters that even the Russian soldiers fear, Chechnyan fighters, have over 12,000 volunteers wanting to go to Kyiv.  If that happens there will be terrible and unspeakable bloodshed.

[millefleur 5,047]

The sad part about all of this is, America acted like it was rushing to defend Ukraine but now that push has come to shove all we can send are thoughts and prayers, weapons and government officials say stuff like "We stand with Ukraine" (unless you also want to count the petty sanctions which clearly don't do anything.) We haven't even set up a refugee program nor do I see our government working with Europe to help those who are fleeing. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I've been looking and I haven't seen it yet. Why did we talk a big talk only to show that it was all for nothing? The Ukrainians were lead on, it seems America won't unleash actual sanctions that hurt and as for helping to fight, forget it, there's no way they will risk nuclear war over Ukraine. Ukraine is the trolley problem in action, and now those people are being left to die in order to avoid risking a nuclear war. Why didn't America say that and make it clear that this is what would actually happen if Russia invaded (which they knew! because they said so!) instead of leading Ukraine on with their platitudes about "we stand with you"? What was the plan the whole time, to just let Ukrainians die fighting an unwinnable war where they're left alone with no one to fight with them? Even in the "best case scenario" Ukraine will be completely wrecked and destroyed and Russia will stalemate or secede those busted lands and maybe still end up in control of the areas that are and always have been pro-Russian. This is a disaster and the fact the US said they knew it would happen but didn't actually state what the real consequences would be makes me feel like they lead Ukrainians on and are still leading them on.

 

BTW the EU also has got nothing, let's see if they do the SWIFT sanction since that's supposed the secret weapon. They can at least help with the Ukrainians who are fleeing and help to save lives instead of leaving these people there to die.

 

19 minutes ago, Neonred said:

We noted that the one group of fighters that even the Russian soldiers fear, Chechnyan fighters, have over 12,000 volunteers wanting to go to Kyiv.  If that happens there will be terrible and unspeakable bloodshed.

They are already there. It's been all over Russian news for the last day, so we believe that, they are there and I've seen footage of them putting up the Chechen and Russian flag on captured bases and throwing the Ukrainians flag to the ground. Unless that's fake news or staged, then they are already there for sure.

Edited February 26, 2022 by millefleur

[Boiler 45,715]

Let us be real, I have no sympathy for anybody who had some weird idea they could rely on Biden especially after Afghanistan.

[millefleur 5,047]

6 minutes ago, Boiler said:

Let us be real, I have no sympathy for anybody who had some weird idea they could rely on Biden especially after Afghanistan.

I've been baffled by Zelensky this whole time. He strongly aligned himself with the US, but then when they were telling him to leave and war was imminent, he ignored that and downplayed the threat, told his people that everything would be fine (was he expecting the US to come to his aid?) It's just beyond strange. He's also changed his "strategy" now multiple times, bouncing from "stand and fight" and arming his citizens and issuing a brutal draft where men ages 18-60 have to fight, to hunkering down in a bunker in Kiev, to asking Israel to mediate between Ukraine and Russia, to saying he would meet with Russia for talks but then backing out at the last minute because Putin said something that "offended" Ukraine (called their military neonazis and drug addicts.) Zelensky is running out of time and if he keeps changing his mind every two seconds about how to resolve this and then thinks the US or the EU is coming to step in or help, he's delusional. He's brave but delusional. I feel sorry for Ukrainians that there just isn't a clear answer out of this right now, I expect more deaths/casualties in the coming days unless Ukraine and Russia can meet in talks. I get that Russia is a scary and intimidating aggressor here but if you don't meet for talks there's nothing but ugly that will further come from this. It's the sad reality. Thankfully my friends in Ukraine right now are safe. Some are in Russian-controlled territory near the Belarus border and reports are that it's quiet there. Others are in Kiev and last I heard they were safe but who knows given the constantly unfolding chaos. It's scary that people in Kiev are basically trapped right now, even if you want to get out, you can't.

 

And yes, I do not expect Biden and company to help at all. I also agree that with this happening so soon after the Afghanistan disaster, they will try to distance themselves from it and act like it's not their problem (they're already doing that.) I give them credit where it was due that they warned of the invasion and had the correct intel but they clearly saw Zelensky was not taking it seriously and Blinken cancelled his meeting with Lavrov as it was unfolding! So, that was better in the eyes of the State Dept, just drop all diplomatic solutions and let Russia invade?! Let's just hope that Russia and Ukraine can stop offending and killing each other and will come to the negotiation table to stop this.

 

Relevant meme: