Why are we rushing to defend Ukraine? [merged threads]

[millefleur 5,047]

1 hour ago, Dashinka said:

So Zelenskyy used a member of the neo-Nazi Azov Battalion in his address to the Greek Parliament.  It did not go over too well.

I've said before the whole Ukraine thing with neo-nazis has always struck me as deeply bizarre especially when they want to be part of the EU at the same time. It's maybe one thing to have some questionable radicals in your military for strategic purposes as a sort of "secret weapon," it's another to openly lionize them and have the president invite them to give speeches.

 

There was another incident where Ukrainian government account openly praised Nazi collaborators as "outstanding historical figures" and Poland got really offended by it. They later deleted the tweet.

 

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by millefleur

[Boiler 45,752]

It is an interesting historical area and of course like a lot of things very complicated and not easy to simplify

 

Millions had died in Ukraine before WW2 and there was hope that the Germans might be saviors well that did not end very well

 

I always find it amusing that Hitler was a communist after WW1, Fascists get thrown in as well but that was the Italians

[millefleur 5,047]

Russia has been suspended from the UN Human Rights Council. As far as suspending from the UN Security Council, no word on that yet. Seems like the Security Council boot might be trickier to achieve.

 

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by millefleur

[Dashinka 24,649]

1 hour ago, millefleur said:

Russia has been suspended from the UN Human Rights Council. As far as suspending from the UN Security Council, no word on that yet. Seems like the Security Council boot might be trickier to achieve.

 

 

Can they be expelled from the Security Council?  Wouldn’t that essentially tear up the UN Charter?  As to the UN HRC, that body is pretty much a joke anyway.

[Boiler 45,752]

42 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

Can they be expelled from the Security Council?  Wouldn’t that essentially tear up the UN Charter?  As to the UN HRC, that body is pretty much a joke anyway.

Only if they agreed, they have a veto.

[Mike E 11,741]

1 hour ago, Dashinka said:

Can they be expelled from the Security Council?  Wouldn’t that essentially tear up the UN Charter?  As to the UN HRC, that body is pretty much a joke anyway.

 

1 hour ago, Boiler said:

Only if they agreed, they have a veto.

The  4th republic,   Taiwan, and USSR would like a word.
 

Removing the permanent slot that Russia holds does require a revision to the UN charter. That seems unlikely.  
 

The UN general assembly  can  designate a new country to hold a slot as it did when replacing Taiwan with PRC.  
 

It seems reasonable to me to reassign the slot Ukraine as it has as plausible   claim to being a successor state of the ussr:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus'

 

“The modern nations of Belarus, Russia, and Ukraine all claim Kievan Rus' as their cultural ancestors,^[10] with Belarus and Russia deriving their names from it. ”

 

Good enough for me.  
 

 

Edited April 8, 2022 by Mike E

[Boiler 45,752]

Russia has the Nukes.

[Mike E 11,741]

7 minutes ago, Boiler said:

Russia has the Nukes.

So did PRC in 1964.  If having nukes was all it took to replace  a slot on the unsc then PRC would not have had to wait 7 years to take the  Sino slot of unsc.  

[millefleur 5,047]

Has the UN Security Council actually done anything at all in terms of global security? Seems like there's been plenty of criticism around it for years, maybe it's time to just reassess the whole thing from the ground up.

[TBoneTX 45,656]

Very interesting, from the liberal columnist at Hotair.com:

Quote

Putin spokesman's surprising admission: We've taken significant losses, it's a huge tragedy

ALLAHPUNDIT Apr 07, 2022 4:01 PM ET

 

https://hotair.com/allahpundit/2022/04/07/putin-spokesmans-surprising-admission-weve-taken-significant-losses-its-a-huge-tragedy-n460807  

Edited April 8, 2022 by TBoneTX

[millefleur 5,047]

22 minutes ago, TBoneTX said:

Very interesting, from the liberal columnist at Hotair.com:

Maybe his now sanctioned daughter called and screamed at him to end it all so she can go back to her life of luxury in Paris. She never seemed to care about wars or invasions before this:

Kremlin spokesman’s daughter complains about US sanctions

The daughter of Russian President Vladimir Putin’s spokesman Dmitry Peskov blasted the sanctions taken by the US against her family as “insanity” — claiming they stemmed from “extreme hatred toward everything Russian.”

 

Elizaveta Peskova, 24, lashed out on Telegram after she and her family had their assets frozen for what the Treasury Department called “enabling Putin’s unjustified and unprovoked war.”

 

Read more: https://nypost.com/2022/03/24/kremlin-spokesmans-daughter-complains-about-us-sanctions/

 

If that were the case, it would be some actual evidence that these sanctions against officials and their family members might be working. I'm just speculating here of course.

[TBoneTX 45,656]

5 minutes ago, millefleur said:

Elizaveta Peskova, 24, lashed out on Telegram after she and her family had their assets frozen for what the Treasury Department called “enabling Putin’s unjustified and unprovoked war.”

Interesting that you should bring this up, ma'am -- and see this (validation of point past the middle of it):

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2022/04/russian_discontent.html

[millefleur 5,047]

1 hour ago, TBoneTX said:

Interesting that you should bring this up, ma'am -- and see this (validation of point past the middle of it):

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2022/04/russian_discontent.html

I can fill in the blanks and give a report about what's happening in Russia. McDonalds is closed as are a bunch of other western brands, but this was and has always been a largely symbolic move. There are plenty of other restaurants and cafes, Russian brands, that continue to function as normal. Food prices have gone up but so far but Russia has always had problems with inflation and the ruble not being the most stable currency, so it hasn't been a huge shock yet. Things might change down the road of course. Interestingly so far my in laws in Russia have told me that the Covid 19 measures, the lockdowns were much worse than what is happening in Russia now, consumer economics wise. When the invasion first broke out, people started panic buying sugar and other dry goods (think of Covid here and the toilet paper) but it seems to have calmed down and things are stabilizing again. Now, we're still pretty early into the sanctions so time will tell in the end. By far, the biggest major change has been in the aviation sector, that was felt overnight. But with other stuff, seems like massive impacts still have not settled in yet and the inflation on most goods has not been catastrophic levels, people just tighten their belts and deal with it.

 

Now, in terms of life for the "yuppies" in Russia: yes, life has been more affected. It's harder to buy luxury items and cars, the price increase on these items has gone through the roof. iPhones are now basically so astronomically priced that even the wealthy question if it's worth it. People who had extra money and were reliant on imported goods are feeling the heat more than the average Russia who never cared about these things, I've heard of reports for imported beauty products drying up for example. However, there are still a lot of European companies that have not shut down in Russia yet. So, it has not been a total iron curtain, plenty of lesser known European companies are still operating under the radar. However, I think this article is a bit overstating the value of luxury goods. By definition, one can do without. Luxury is always the first market to plunge in hard times because they're not necessary to live with. Russians with enough money/means will simply just leave, and move to other countries (or vacation there) where they can still access those goods. Armenia, Georgia and Turkey have been go-to destinations for these reasons. For the ultra wealthy, Dubai seems to fit the bill.

 

In my opinion, the big kicker which has started to settle in but not en masse is medical and pharmaceutical. I actually think this would be the thing that would anger enough people across the spectrum in Russia that it could even lead to riots. If people cannot get medicines from Europe or don't have access to medical implants (a lot of those are imported) and it starts causing the robust private medical industry in Russia to crater, this will be a major blow. So far, my in laws are not majorly affect but there have been complaints about shortages. A very bad sign. I will be watching this closely most of all as I think it is more likely the kindling for some kind of "revolution" in Russia rather than a lack of Louis Vuitton bags. Imagine that you have money but simply can't get your procedure done because they don't have the materials. This will be very frustrating for people who especially saved up just for that. When it comes between "Do I care about this war or being in constant pain (or may even die) because I need a surgery?" I think it's pretty obvious most people will opt for their own health and well being over some war. Now, Russians may be a bit more masochistic and willing to accept pain compared to others, but even they have a breaking point.

 

This is just my take on what I hear from ordinary people in Russia right now. I'm sure I'm missing out on some blind spots where the sanctions are hitting and the longer the war goes on, the more obvious it will become. There will absolutely be a recession and unemployment is going to go up, but it's coming right off of Covid where that already was happening. If this had happened pre-Covid when the Russian economy was stronger, the shocks would've been more obvious initially. In general, the longer the war goes on, the worse it is for everyone, so I just don't see the "support" for the war being sustainable if it takes years. Now will the "support" just turn to apathy/defeatism or something else? Remains to be seen, definitely a "watch and wait" situation.

Edited April 8, 2022 by millefleur

[Dashinka 24,649]

9 hours ago, Mike E said:

 

The  4th republic,   Taiwan, and USSR would like a word.
 

Removing the permanent slot that Russia holds does require a revision to the UN charter. That seems unlikely.  
 

The UN general assembly  can  designate a new country to hold a slot as it did when replacing Taiwan with PRC.  
 

It seems reasonable to me to reassign the slot Ukraine as it has as plausible   claim to being a successor state of the ussr:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus'

 

“The modern nations of Belarus, Russia, and Ukraine all claim Kievan Rus' as their cultural ancestors,^[10] with Belarus and Russia deriving their names from it. ”

 

Good enough for me.  
 

 

I never really understood why China and France were included as permanent members.  Heck, Australia, Canada and India did more to win WWII.

[Dashinka 24,649]

8 hours ago, millefleur said:

Has the UN Security Council actually done anything at all in terms of global security? Seems like there's been plenty of criticism around it for years, maybe it's time to just reassess the whole thing from the ground up.

They did nothing to reunify the two Koreas.