Why are we rushing to defend Ukraine? [merged threads]

[iwannaplay54 985]

Here’s your podcast

 

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-travis-and-sexton-57927691/?cmp=ios_share&sc=ios_social_share&pr=false&autoplay=true

 

 

[Mike E 11,741]

20 minutes ago, iwannaplay54 said:

It doesn’t now.  After his remarks got noticed Ivan changed his tone.

 

There.  All better?  

Who is Ivan?

 

Snopes still debunks your claim.  
 

And I am confused which of your comments on this thread reflects what Trump said “exactly”.  But I won’t expect the effort sorting it out. The archived transcript is consistent with Snopes and the bottom line there is no evidence Trump condones the invasion, contrary you your claim. I don’t understand why you are not  quoting a primary source.  

Edited February 28, 2022 by Mike E

[iwannaplay54 985]

8 hours ago, Mike E said:

Who is Ivan?

 

Snopes still debunks your claim.  
 

And I am confused which of your comments on this thread reflects what Trump said “exactly”.  But I won’t expect the effort sorting it out. The archived transcript is consistent with Snopes and the bottom line there is no evidence Trump condones the invasion, contrary you your claim. I don’t understand why you are not  quoting a primary source.  

Nobody said he condoned anything?  He just admires it.

 

[Dashinka 24,627]

1 hour ago, iwannaplay54 said:

Nobody said he condoned anything?  He just admires it.

 

Does it matter, Trump is not President.  I know, he was a Russian stooge according to the Hillary camp, but regardless, he was voted out in 2020, and now we have Sleepy Joe.

[Mike E 11,741]

2 hours ago, iwannaplay54 said:

Nobody said he condoned anything?  He just admires it.

 

Goal posts and movement. 
 

I too admired Putin’s cunning when he recognized the independence of Donetsk and Luhansk. And had he invaded and stopped there, it would have been another move on his chess board toward his ultimate aims.  But Putin seems to have over reached and what was cunning last week is now eclipsed by something that looks comparatively stupid. 
 

Other people I thought had their moments of  cunning:

 

* Hitler. Cunning up to when he invaded Poland.  Had he  done otherwise he have died of natural causes after watching his empire  land men on the moon 

 

* Stalin: in a battle of wits with FDR, the latter was unarmed. Stalin took over Central Europe and placed a hundred million or so people under dictators that weren’t much better than Nazis.  The USA’s efforts in the European theater of WW2 were nullified and Stalin didn’t have to pay a dime to expand his empire. Moment of cunning? Hardly. The man was brilliant.  A monster, but brilliant.  
 

* Nixon: normalizing relations with China set up a defacto alliance with China which helped to accelerate the fall of the USSR.  His withdraw from a Vietnam also set up future good relations with Vietnam for which we are grateful now that China is an adversary of the USA and Vietnam. 
 

* Speaking of which, Ho Chi Minh,  played Russia, China, France, and the USA like drums and won himself a totalitarian dictatorship.  Again as cunning as Stalin and perhaps more so since he was playing Stalin.  
 

* Mao. Let’s KMT to most of the behave lifting in WW2 and wipes them out.  Then tells Russia to sod off.  Then meets Nixon paving the way for Deng to make China a powerhouse.  Really cunning except for the cultural revolution 

 

* Lee Kuan Yew: in one generation uses his intellect and totalitarianism to move Singapore from among the least developed to one of most highly developed countries 

 

* Ayatollah Khomeini - paints himself as a savior of Iran while living much of his life safe and in luxury in France. Waltzes in after the kids do the heavy lifting in Iran and institutes a medieval region with absolute power and riches 

 

* Charles de Gaulle. Whines during the phony war while Eisenhower,  Churchill, and French resistance  do all the work. Takes all the credit for saving France and ends up setting up France as a nuclear power with energy independence, while letting UK and USA do the heavy lifting in the Cold War.  Brilliant. 

 

I could go on.  To varying degrees I’ve distaste  for all of the above but objectively they had brilliant moments.
 

As  have Bill Clinton, Putin, Xi Jinping, Modi, Jacinda Ardern, Justin Trudeau, Nancy Pelosi, Mitch McConnell, Gavin Newson: all of whom are objectively reprehensible and immoral yet I have to admire their moments of cunning and brilliance. 
 

And I put Donald Trump on that list too.  

Edited February 28, 2022 by Mike E

[Boiler 45,715]

OnlyFans Says It Has Restored Russian Creators’ Accounts
Creators had reported over the weekend that they weren’t able to access funds from the platform

 

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/onlyfans-russia-putin-ukraine-invasion-1313259/

 

This is getting serious.

[Dashinka 24,627]

6 minutes ago, Boiler said:

OnlyFans Says It Has Restored Russian Creators’ Accounts
Creators had reported over the weekend that they weren’t able to access funds from the platform

 

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/onlyfans-russia-putin-ukraine-invasion-1313259/

 

This is getting serious.

I heard Pornhub is cutting off Russia as well.

[Dashinka 24,627]

Well, the DSA leadership, AOC and Bernie Sanders seem to support Putin in this action.  I know, they say they condemn the events, but it is all the US's fault so that seems to indicate they are more in line with an autocrat.

 

AOC and Bernie Sanders' 'Democratic Socialists' group blames the US for Russian invasion of Ukraine and demands NATO is scrapped: 'US must end the imperialist expansionism that set the stage for this conflict'

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10561299/AOC-Bernies-Democratic-Socialists-group-blames-Russia-invasion-demands-end-NATO.html

[laylalex 7,293]

No, AOC has said she does not support Putin. 

 

Bernie Sanders also does not support Putin:

Quote

 

“The Russian invasion of Ukraine that the world is witnessing today is a blatant violation of international law and of basic human decency. It may well kill thousands and displace millions. It could plunge Europe into long-term economic and political instability.

“The United States and our allies must impose severe sanctions on Vladimir Putin and his fellow oligarchs. At a time when thousands may die as a result of his war, Putin, one of the richest people in the world, should not be allowed to enjoy the billions he stole from the Russian people. The United States must also work closely with international partners to provide humanitarian relief for the Ukrainian people.”

 

https://vermontbiz.com/news/2022/february/24/sanders-statement-russian-invasion-ukraine

 

So basically you don't believe what they say, and assume that they are saying it's the US's fault because... ? A group they are members of said this? It's a dumb statement, I don't disagree with that. But it is the statement of an individual that -- to me -- counts more. Unless they are saying "I endorse the DSA on this" I am going with their actual words.

[Dashinka 24,627]

2 minutes ago, laylalex said:

No, AOC has said she does not support Putin. 

 

Bernie Sanders also does not support Putin:

https://vermontbiz.com/news/2022/february/24/sanders-statement-russian-invasion-ukraine

 

So basically you don't believe what they say, and assume that they are saying it's the US's fault because... ? A group they are members of said this? It's a dumb statement, I don't disagree with that. But it is the statement of an individual that -- to me -- counts more. Unless they are saying "I endorse the DSA on this" I am going with their actual words.

In words maybe, but they support an economic system that leads to the likes of a Putin.

[laylalex 7,293]

1 minute ago, Dashinka said:

In words maybe, but they support an economic system that leads to the likes of a Putin.

That's ... kind of attenuated. They also support an economic system that leads to the likes of a Mette Frederiksen or a Magdalena Andersson. Last I checked we were pro-Denmark and Sweden?

 

[ignores goalpost moving]

[Boiler 45,715]

Bay Area Rep. Eric Swalwell blasted for proposing kicking Russians out of US universities

https://www.sfgate.com/national-politics/article/Swalwell-proposes-expelling-Russian-students-16947581.php

 

On Friday, it became Democratic Rep. Eric Swalwell's turn to receive backlash from both the left and the right. During a CNN appearance Thursday, he floated the idea of "kicking every Russian student out of the United States" as a means of retaliating against Putin.

 

[Dashinka 24,627]

27 minutes ago, laylalex said:

That's ... kind of attenuated. They also support an economic system that leads to the likes of a Mette Frederiksen or a Magdalena Andersson. Last I checked we were pro-Denmark and Sweden?

 

[ignores goalpost moving]

Like I said in my post, they do not explicitly support Putin or his actions, although Bernie does have an affinity for the former Soviet Union, but their politics organization, the DSA, is for socialism in the same vein as the former USSR, not the excessive social spending we see in many of the Western European countries.

22 minutes ago, Boiler said:

Bay Area Rep. Eric Swalwell blasted for proposing kicking Russians out of US universities

https://www.sfgate.com/national-politics/article/Swalwell-proposes-expelling-Russian-students-16947581.php

 

On Friday, it became Democratic Rep. Eric Swalwell's turn to receive backlash from both the left and the right. During a CNN appearance Thursday, he floated the idea of "kicking every Russian student out of the United States" as a means of retaliating against Putin.

 

In this he actually may have a point.

[Boiler 45,715]

I would imagine many will be looking at the asylum option, I have seen a few stories about Russians wanting to get out and where they could go.

[Dashinka 24,627]

7 minutes ago, Boiler said:

I would imagine many will be looking at the asylum option, I have seen a few stories about Russians wanting to get out and where they could go.

Haven’t been hearing much yet, but I suspect if this continues for a longer time, and the Russian economy gets worse, we will be hearing a lot of that.