Why are we rushing to defend Ukraine? [merged threads]

[Dashinka 24,900]

I hadn't heard before that Zelenskyy was threatened by the Ukraine power base when he took office. 

 

Why Zelensky won't be able to negotiate peace himself

 

 

Zelensky defeated Petro Poroshenko in a landslide victory in 2019 largely because of a promise to implement the Minsk Agreement and start to move toward peace with Russia. But he was pushed off that platform by a backlash in Ukraine and lack of support in the political West.

 

Ultranationalist leaders defied Zelensky and warned that a ceasefire and fulfillment of his campaign promises would lead to protests and riots. More seriously, they threatened his life. Dmytro Yarosh, the founder of the fRight Sector paramilitary organization threatened that, if Zelensky fulfilled his campaign promise, “he will lose his life. He will hang on some tree on Khreshchatyk boulevard if he betrays Ukraine and those people who died in the Revolution and the War. And it is very important that he understand this."

 

During a presentation announcing Zelensky’s creation of a National Platform for Reconciliation and Unity on March 12, 2020, Zelensky advisor Sergei Sivokho was thrown to the ground by a large gang from the Azov battalion.

 

https://responsiblestatecraft.org/how-will-the-war-in-ukraine-end/

[TBoneTX 46,297]

Authorities Warn Of Con Artist Scamming Dementia Patients Out Of Billions Of Dollars

 

U.S. — Authorities are warning that a con artist is currently on the loose and scamming elderly dementia patients out of billions of dollars.  They are urging anyone who sees the suspect to call law enforcement immediately.

"He's very short, dresses in all green for some reason, and has an accent like some kind of Eastern European henchman from a Guy Ritchie movie," said a spokesperson for law enforcement.  [...]

 

https://babylonbee.com/news/authorities-warn-of-con-artist-scamming-dementia-patients-out-of-billions-of-dollars

[Dashinka 24,900]

Fairly good analysis.  Too bad there are a bunch of hard-headed folks on both sides.

 

Yes, we can reconcile absurd Russian & Ukrainian peace plans

 

 

Even de facto acceptance of Russian rule over five Ukrainian provinces would be a most bitter pill for Ukraine and the West to swallow. However, this would still be far less than the maximalist goals of Russian hardliners, whether in terms of the subjugation of the whole of Ukraine, or annexation of all the Russian-speaking areas of the country, including Ukraine’s second city, Kharkiv, and the whole of the Black Sea coast.

 

If in the months and years to come, the Ukrainian army can manage to hold roughly its existing lines, then the eventual line of division between Ukraine and Russia (whether drawn in a formal peace settlement or accepted as part of an armistice) will also run along these lines. If however Ukraine is defeated and suffers much greater loss of territory, then future generations of Ukrainians may regret that Kyiv did not treat Putin’s proposal at least as a starting point for negotiation and bargaining.

 

For it should be remembered that while the Russian terms of March 2022 would also have been a bitter pill for Ukraine to swallow at the time, their acceptance would have saved Ukraine much territory that it now seems certain permanently to lose, much damage that may never be restored, and many human beings who can never be brought back to life.

 

https://responsiblestatecraft.org/ukraine-peace/

Edited June 21, 2024 by Dashinka

[Dashinka 24,900]

It is interesting how easy it is for Western leaders to sacrifice Ukrainian men, and for that matter Russian men.  Has Ukraine become the military industrial complex's laboratory?

 

Did the West deliberately prolong the Ukraine war?

 

 

The interview corroborates claims first reported in May 2022 by the broadly Western-alignedUkrainska Pravda outlet — which reported that Boris Johnson told Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky the West wouldn’t support any peace deal regardless of what Ukraine wanted, and they preferred to keep taking the fight to Russian President Vladimir Putin, who was less powerful than they had thought.

 

Johnson had himself confirmed, albeit not in so many words, in a phone call to French President Emmanuel Macron that he had urged Zelensky against peace.

 

All of it lends further weight to multiple accounts over the course of the past 21 months that have claimed Ukraine and Russia were on the brink of peace, but were blocked by NATO states eager for a prolonged war that would weaken Russia and possibly destabilize it.

 

Former U.S. national security official Fiona Hill reported the two sides had reached a tentative peace deal the same month of Johnson’s surprise visit to Kyiv, while former German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder, former Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett, and several Turkish officials — all of whom were involved at various times in the talks — have said that NATO officials stopped or undermined negotiations.

 

https://responsiblestatecraft.org/ukraine-russia-talks/

[TBoneTX 46,297]

Wow!

~~~~~~~~

Ukraine Invades Russia and Seizes Territory

 

The official word so far is that no one really saw this coming, not Russia and not even the United States.  Ukraine's decision to invade Russia is looking like a high-risk gamble but so far it appears to be paying off.  [...]

 

https://hotair.com/john-s-2/2024/08/08/ukraine-invades-russia-and-quickly-seizes-territory-n3792898

[TBoneTX 46,297]

   

 

Zelenskyy Asks U.S. For $20 Billion To Find Out Where That Missing $100 Billion Went

 

KYIV — To date, the United States has allocated approximately $177 billion worth of aid to Ukraine, but the war-torn nation reports they have received less than half.  Now Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is asking for another $20 billion so he can find out what happened to the $101 billion dollars that was somehow lost.

"In order to locate the missing funds, we will need more funds," said Zelenskyy.  "That's just basic economics.  And if you don't give it to us then you hate Ukraine and democracy."

Given that the money would have arrived in the form of humanitarian aid or weapons, some officials have questioned exactly how Zelenskyy can be so sure he was shorted the funds, to which he replied, "I don't know, that's what I need the $20 billion for."  [...]

 

https://babylonbee.com/news/zelenskyy-asks-us-for-20-billion-to-find-out-where-that-100-billion-went

[TBoneTX 46,297]

Congress Warns Trump's Attempts To End War In Ukraine Could Result In End Of War In Ukraine

 

WASHINGTON, D.C. — Members of Congress are sounding the alarm that President Trump's efforts to end the war in Ukraine could result in the end of the war in Ukraine.

The warning comes on the heels of recent news that Trump has sent a delegation led by Secretary of State Marco Rubio to meet with Russian envoys in Saudi Arabia to discuss how they can come to terms in ending a war that has shattered a country, taken an estimated 300,000 lives, and displaced millions.

"If Trump ends the war in Ukraine, then the war in Ukraine will stop," warned House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries.  [...]

https://babylonbee.com/news/congress-warns-trumps-attempts-to-end-war-in-ukraine-could-result-in-end-of-war-in-ukraine

[TBoneTX 46,297]

Zelensky Allowed Into Peace Talks But Must Sit At Kiddie Table

 

RIYADH — Despite initial reports that Ukraine would not be represented at the negotiations with Russia, a last-minute decision was made to allow Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy to join the peace talks under the condition that he sit at the kiddie table.

While the U.S. delegation had previously been informed that Ukraine would not be participating and would not accept any deals made in their absence, Zelenskyy sent an urgent message requesting to be allowed to be a part of the discussion.  A kiddie table was then made available to accommodate the request.

"This was the only realistic way to have a place where he could sit," said U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio.  [...]

https://babylonbee.com/news/zelensky-allowed-into-peace-talks-but-must-sit-at-kiddie-table

[Dashinka 24,900]

Excellent analysis by George Beebe.

 

Reality Is Winning the Ukraine Narrative War

The dominant army in this information war has comprised most Western governments and leading media organs, abetted by a formidable array of public relations firms working in partnership with the Ukrainian government. It has insisted that the Ukraine war is best understood as a modern-day variation of Nazi Germany’s World War II aggression, with Putin reprising the Hitlerian role of revanchist dictator seeking to grab land and dominate Europe. Unless he is stopped through resolute military force, they argue, his armies will move from Ukraine to the Baltic states, Poland, and beyond. 

 

Arrayed against this army has been a loose band of realist experts and anti-establishment skeptics who contend that the war’s origins more closely resemble those of World War I. To varying degrees, they acknowledge that Russia’s paternalistic attitudes towards Ukraine have played a significant role in Moscow’s motivations, but they argue that the invasion is fundamentally the product of what international relations theorists call a “security dilemma.” Steps by NATO to bolster the security of its members and aspirants were perceived as threatening by Moscow. Aggressive efforts by Russia to block these moves threatened the West, producing a spiral of action and reaction that continued to escalate absent diplomatic efforts to arrest it.  

 

https://www.compactmag.com/article/reality-is-winning-the-ukraine-narrative-war/

 

[top_secret 2,555]

I'm sorry but I'm a lifelong Republican born during the Soviet Union and becoming politically aware under Reagan.  Putin is a monster and modern Russia is every bit as evil as the Soviets.  Trump sucking putin's @|(|< is humiliating to America.  We literally do not get a damn thing out of it and are surrendering our position as a world leading country for nothing.  It's total capitulation.  Xi must be ecstatic because all the friendly nations we are betraying will most certainly be inclined to cozy up.  I support about 90% of everything trump is doing domestically and about 0% of what he's is doing internationally.  The damage to America's standing in the world is incalculable.

[TBoneTX 46,297]

 

Embarrassed Trump Realizes He's Had Russia And Ukraine Confused This Entire Time

 

WASHINGTON, D.C. — The new presidential administration experienced a rare public relations gaffe, as an embarrassed President Donald Trump realized that he's had Russia and Ukraine confused this entire time.

The mistake was eventually discovered by a White House aide, who began to ask questions after the president had made public assertions that Ukraine was responsible for starting the war.  Upon further investigation, the aide privately notified Trump that he had the two countries mixed up.  [...]

https://babylonbee.com/news/embarrassed-trump-realizes-hes-had-russia-and-ukraine-confused-this-entire-time