Why are we rushing to defend Ukraine? [merged threads]

[Dashinka 24,479]

7 hours ago, Mike E said:

Russia is going to deliver natural gas to China how exactly?

 

 

I seriously doubted Ukraine would out  class the Russian armed forces today, or that the Afghan militants would  outclass the Russian armed forces with shoulder mounted rocket launchers. 
 

And lest we forget what militants in Iraq and Afghanistan did to the US armed forces with IEDs funded by private citizens from Saudi Arabia. 
 

Regardless as wrote early in this thread, this is a European issue solvable by Europeans   America

doesn’t need its government involved.  Let private American citizens try to fund the downfall of Russian / CCP adventures the way Saudi citizens funded  9/11 and the militants of Iraq and Afghanistan.  

 

It’s only fair.  

Hence the major question of this thread.  Why is the US rushing to defend Ukraine?  I have my own ideas that tend to dovetail with your Vietnam analogy.  The US played a big role in orchestrating the Ukrainian coup in 2014 when Biden was VeeP and tasked with Ukraine specifically, this is probably the biggest reason IMO.

[TBoneTX 45,248]

I wish that more of the Power Elite would heed George Washington's advice against foreign entanglements.

[Dashinka 24,479]

9 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

I wish that more of the Power Elite would heed George Washington's advice against foreign entanglements.

Then how would our elite politicians and their family build their wealth?

[Fuerteventura 29]

On 5/5/2022 at 5:42 AM, Dashinka said:

Hence the major question of this thread.  Why is the US rushing to defend Ukraine?  I have my own ideas that tend to dovetail with your Vietnam analogy.  The US played a big role in orchestrating the Ukrainian coup in 2014 when Biden was VeeP and tasked with Ukraine specifically, this is probably the biggest reason IMO.

The myth that the EU and US orchestrated the "coup" is firmly rebutted in this document https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://static.poder360.com.br/2022/02/2014-Coup-1.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjZ7bL0pMv3AhWkKn0KHZYeD0gQFnoECAcQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1TwpbSfJ8dViJ-nwg-PcWN

[Dashinka 24,479]

4 minutes ago, Fuerteventura said:

The myth that the EU and US orchestrated the "coup" is firmly rebutted in this document https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://static.poder360.com.br/2022/02/2014-Coup-1.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjZ7bL0pMv3AhWkKn0KHZYeD0gQFnoECAcQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1TwpbSfJ8dViJ-nwg-PcWN

Firmly?  So a paper with no author and a lot of links some government bureaucrat most likely put together is credible?  Btw, it only refuted some of the information such as Victoria Nuland's mis-speak (she has a habit of doing that.).  Now, I don't follow RT, or the hometown Russian media, but the Western sources also have very little credibility and tend to follow the direction of certain political parties.  Regardless, a duly elected President in the Ukraine was forced out, someone or something was backing the protestors and of course we will never know whom or what entity, but the US has a long history of meddling in the politics of other countries.  That history alone puts the Obama/Biden administration under suspicion, but of course everyone wants to believe these type of things are grass roots unless of course it does not favor a certain side.  With all the money the US invested in the Ukraine to build a Democracy, it is interesting that we (the US government) did not immediately speak out against such an anti-democratic activity.

[Fuerteventura 29]

6 hours ago, Dashinka said:

Firmly?  So a paper with no author and a lot of links some government bureaucrat most likely put together is credible?  Btw, it only refuted some of the information such as Victoria Nuland's mis-speak (she has a habit of doing that.).  Now, I don't follow RT, or the hometown Russian media, but the Western sources also have very little credibility and tend to follow the direction of certain political parties.  Regardless, a duly elected President in the Ukraine was forced out, someone or something was backing the protestors and of course we will never know whom or what entity, but the US has a long history of meddling in the politics of other countries.  That history alone puts the Obama/Biden administration under suspicion, but of course everyone wants to believe these type of things are grass roots unless of course it does not favor a certain side.  With all the money the US invested in the Ukraine to build a Democracy, it is interesting that we (the US government) did not immediately speak out against such an anti-democratic activity.

So your rebuttal  to the papers points?

[Dashinka 24,479]

44 minutes ago, Fuerteventura said:

So your rebuttal  to the papers points?

What is there to refute, the article with no author revolved around the money the US spent and the mis-speak by Nuland and I already addressed that.  As to the supposed recorded phone conversation, that is what it is, the first casualty of war is the truth.  The paper also tries to say this was not a coup.  I really do not know what you call a protest that results in an overthrow of the elected government, but many countries in Africa tend to call them coups.

 

Anyway, here is something you can refute that cover much more than some paltry sum Ms.Nuland talked about.  And this one actually has an author named.

 

https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2018/06/04/how-and-why-the-u-s-government-perpetrated-the-2014-coup-in-ukraine/

Edited May 7, 2022 by Dashinka

[TBoneTX 45,248]

17 hours ago, Dashinka said:

Then how would our elite politicians and their family build their wealth?

Tax fraud, shakedowns, and other avenues, of course!

[millefleur 5,046]

On 5/6/2022 at 11:52 PM, TBoneTX said:

Tax fraud, shakedowns, and other avenues, of course!

Don't forget insider trading, since they basically know all the major news/crises before they happen and can thus buy/sell stocks accordingly.

[TBoneTX 45,248]

20 hours ago, millefleur said:

Don't forget insider trading, since they basically know all the major news/crises before they happen and can thus buy/sell stocks accordingly.

If I were in charge of All Things, I'd put a continuous microscope on all those losers for exactly this.

[Dashinka 24,479]

Good take, not that I think anyone in the Biden administration will act on it (Obama warned us).

 

Humiliating Russia is not good foreign policy

 

According to this logic, no amount of Western aid — over $20 billion is allocated with another $40 billion from the United States alone coming — is too much. In Western eyes, Ukraine should not compromise, but Russia should: telling Ukraine to settle for half a loaf is simply immoral.

 

But unconditional and seemingly bottomless western support for Ukraine risks prolonging the war. Peace talks are now moribund, but might revive when the war turns static. At that point, U.S. support for Ukraine should be used to encourage a peace deal.

 

Battlefield success might allow Ukraine to reclaim some of its lost territory and even get payments from Russia. But the balance of military power makes that unlikely. More likely is a bloody stalemate that does not meaningfully move Russia’s position: basically, that Ukraine gives up Crimea permanently, allows autonomy or independence for occupied areas of Donbas, and becomes neutral by forswearing NATO membership.

 

https://unherd.com/thepost/humiliating-russia-is-not-good-foreign-policy/

[millefleur 5,046]

7 hours ago, Dashinka said:

Humiliating Russia is not good foreign policy

People in the comments of that article are insane. If this is a reflection of how most Americans think about this, we're doomed and Biden even looks quasi-restrained compared to what some of them are saying.

[Dashinka 24,479]

I have heard of references regarding the $40 billion approved (I wonder what the carbon footprint of that bill was) for Ukraine in other threads.  Not to worry, the US government will have almost no oversight.

 

Twenty-Two House Republicans Demand Accountability on Biden's $40b War Spending

 

Indeed, the relentlessly war-supporting CNN last month acknowledged that “the US has few ways to track the substantial supply of anti-tank, anti-aircraft and other weaponry it has sent across the border into Ukraine.” Biden officials admitted the “risk that some of the shipments may ultimately end up in unexpected places.” About the heavy weaponry the Biden White House had originally said it wouldn't send, only to change its mind, a senior official briefing reporters said: “I couldn't tell you where they are in Ukraine and whether the Ukrainians are using them at this point.”

 

Following that trail, this new letter accuses the Biden administration of indifference toward Ukraine's dismal corruption record and the resulting possibility that large amounts of U.S. weaponry could soon circulate around the black market, placing the security of both Europe and the U.S at risk. The only member of “the Squad” to explain her YES vote in support of the $40 billion, Rep. Cori Bush (D-MO), referenced similar dangers in a written statement explaining her vote:

 

https://greenwald.substack.com/p/twenty-two-house-republicans-demand?token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjoyMDIzNjY5NiwicG9zdF9pZCI6NTYyNDM2ODUsIl8iOiIyNmMvSSIsImlhdCI6MTY1MzUwMTg5NiwiZXhwIjoxNjUzNTA1NDk2LCJpc3MiOiJwdWItMTI4NjYyIiwic3ViIjoicG9zdC1yZWFjdGlvbiJ9.taEH3RhUCmYjJPZ4KsU59Q2Q9imWob8UKOumkri5viA&s=r

[Dashinka 24,479]

U.S. Officials Admit They Have Lied About Ukraine Success and Russian Failures
 

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/06/u-s-officials-admit-lied-ukraine-success-russian-failures/

[LIBrty4all 3,749]

2 hours ago, Dashinka said:

U.S. Officials Admit They Have Lied About Ukraine Success and Russian Failures
 

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/06/u-s-officials-admit-lied-ukraine-success-russian-failures/

Wait, WHAT?  Our elected representatives would LIE to us?  Thankfully, Fauci & Biden would NEVER do that.