ATTENTION JULY FILERS!

[Bill y Bella 0]

if you mailed it on friday (even overnight) for a saturday delivery, did you think they would get it on saturday and process your petition in? I dont think any government agency works on saturdays. they werent going off postmarks, but their received date.

heres another post just like yours...

returned petition received on July 30th

still its a major bummer. i do feel bad you are now in limbo and lost a month or more. I dont wish that on anyone.

Good luck in the future...

Chris

Are you sure about this? Everything I read regarding the increase said the postmarked determined what fee applied.

Is there a USCIS document that says the petition had to be received before 7/30?

[chris4gretchen 1]

if they resend it with the old fee and an explanation it will just delay them longer and be returned again. USCIS posted that petitions had to be filed ON OR BEFORE july 30th. there wasnt a issue from USCIS that said postmarked on or before. They dont pay attention and havent paid attention to when the postmark was or when they signed for it. they only care about when they put it in the system and that date they put on your NOA1 as the received date.

for all the people who mailed on that friday or saturday, they missed the deadline. that monday morning on july 30th, they open and received in to their system petitions with the new fee.

they dont list on the NOA1 received date when they signed for the mail, unless they happened to put you into the computer system the same day. Mailed dates have no relevance with USCIS. They arent going to accept postmarks.

they need to refile and put in the proper amount.

Chris

Edited September 13, 2007 by chris4gretchen

[kaush 0]

if you mailed it on friday (even overnight) for a saturday delivery, did you think they would get it on saturday and process your petition in? I dont think any government agency works on saturdays. they werent going off postmarks, but their received date.

heres another post just like yours...

returned petition received on July 30th

still its a major bummer. i do feel bad you are now in limbo and lost a month or more. I dont wish that on anyone.

Good luck in the future...

Chris

Are you sure about this? Everything I read regarding the increase said the postmarked determined what fee applied.

Is there a USCIS document that says the petition had to be received before 7/30?

Here is the final USCIS fee reminder on the USCIS website which clearly says postmarked!!!!!

Do we fight and have things delayed further?

[bakofoil 27]

Okay so I filed end of July and ran into a problem!!

I sent my package on July 27th and it reached TSC on July 30th (I had a return receipt).

If it reached them on July 30th, thats the day of the new fee increases. You missed the deadline. You sent it on a friday. they arent there to receive it on sat or sunday so monday the 30th is the earliest day. I feel bad for you having to start over, but you clearly missed the deadline. they had to officially receive it ( not just sign for the mail) before the 30th.

.... they werent going off postmarks, but their received date.

The requirement is for the application to be POSTMARKED prior to the 30th July; "WASHINGTON—U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) reminds its customers that the agency’s new fee schedule is effective on Monday, July 30, 2007. Applications or petitions postmarked or otherwise filed on or after that date must include the new fee."

There is some good advice on this scenario on the following thread: http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...t&p=1176939

[thejoz 0]

I'm more intrigued about this 'two year rule'. What is that?

[chris4gretchen 1]

Okay so I filed end of July and ran into a problem!!

I sent my package on July 27th and it reached TSC on July 30th (I had a return receipt).

If it reached them on July 30th, thats the day of the new fee increases. You missed the deadline. You sent it on a friday. they arent there to receive it on sat or sunday so monday the 30th is the earliest day. I feel bad for you having to start over, but you clearly missed the deadline. they had to officially receive it ( not just sign for the mail) before the 30th.

.... they werent going off postmarks, but their received date.

The requirement is for the application to be POSTMARKED prior to the 30th July; "WASHINGTON—U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) reminds its customers that the agency’s new fee schedule is effective on Monday, July 30, 2007. Applications or petitions postmarked or otherwise filed on or after that date must include the new fee."

There is some good advice on this scenario on the following thread: http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...t&p=1176939

No, youre missing it...

just because your postmark is the 27th or 28th doesnt mean you beat the deadline. it says OR OTHERWISE FILED ON or after.

that means if your postmark is on july 30th or after, OR if they received your petition and FILED IT into their system on July 30th then you have to pay the new fees.

they filed those petitions that they received from late friday and sat on monday. The day the new fees went into effect. didnt matter the postmark was 27th or 28th. You guys are giving bad advice to tell them to resend and USCIS made a mistake. Im sorry the people got them returned but USCIS has already made the decision on them and they wont overturn it.

Chris

Edited September 13, 2007 by chris4gretchen

[kaush 0]

I'm more intrigued about this 'two year rule'. What is that?

I-129F application instructions state that " You and your fiancé(e) intend to marry within 90 days ofyour fiancé(e) entering the United States, and are both freeto marry, and have met in person within two years before your filing of this petition "

[bakofoil 27]

Okay so I filed end of July and ran into a problem!!

I sent my package on July 27th and it reached TSC on July 30th (I had a return receipt).

If it reached them on July 30th, thats the day of the new fee increases. You missed the deadline. You sent it on a friday. they arent there to receive it on sat or sunday so monday the 30th is the earliest day. I feel bad for you having to start over, but you clearly missed the deadline. they had to officially receive it ( not just sign for the mail) before the 30th.

.... they werent going off postmarks, but their received date.

The requirement is for the application to be POSTMARKED prior to the 30th July; "WASHINGTON—U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) reminds its customers that the agency’s new fee schedule is effective on Monday, July 30, 2007. Applications or petitions postmarked or otherwise filed on or after that date must include the new fee."

There is some good advice on this scenario on the following thread: http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...t&p=1176939

No, youre missing it...

just because your postmark is the 27th or 28th doesnt mean you beat the deadline. it says OR OTHERWISE FILED ON or after.

that means if your postmark is on july 30th or after, OR if they received your petition and FILED IT into their system on July 30th then you have to pay the new fees.

they filed those petitions that they received from late friday and sat on monday. The day the new fees went into effect. didnt matter the postmark was 27th or 28th. You guys are giving bad advice to tell them to resend and USCIS made a mistake. Im sorry the people got them returned but USCIS has already made the decision on them and they wont overturn it.

Chris

There is no intention to mislead here.

The USCIS officially state here that applications postmarked ON or AFTER July 30th or OTHERWISE FILED (i.e. delivery by hand or some other means) ON or AFTER that date are subject to the new fee schedule.

I really don't think there is any ambiguity here; if the application left his hands BEFORE the 30th July and he has documented proof (via a postmark or delivery receipt) that the package was officially placed in the hands of some other official body (be it the postal service or a receiving officer -if delivery by other means - at the CSC) prior to the cut of date then USCIS have made a mistake. It is up to the petitioner to prove to USCIS that they submitted correctly, via a postal receipt.

It is very unfortunate for the petitioner that this has happened but with the recent deluge of applicants to beat the fee schedule it is unsurprising that some applications are being returned erroneously and also that many applications sent in July have simply not been processed yet (as in my case).

Clearly, if the petitioner appeals, the process is going to take additional time and therefore it is up to the petitioner to decide whether to submit with the new fee or take up their right to challenge the ruling on this particular application. The petitioner does, however, have a good case to dispute the request for the new fee.

[bakofoil 27]

I'm more intrigued about this 'two year rule'. What is that?

I-129F application instructions state that " You and your fiancé(e) intend to marry within 90 days ofyour fiancé(e) entering the United States, and are both freeto marry, and have met in person within two years before your filing of this petition "

kaush, this is a supplementary reason why, in your case, it might be best to appeal their request for the new fee schedule. If you resubmit with the new fee then you are prospectively facing an RFE over the timing of your last visit with each other. Your previous application was within the requirements for application.

I do not wish to mislead you in any way. I am simply offering an opinion. Perhaps, you could make an appointment with an immigration lawyer before taking any decision on this matter given your circumstances.

I wish you the best of luck.

[kaush 0]

I'm more intrigued about this 'two year rule'. What is that?

I-129F application instructions state that " You and your fiancé(e) intend to marry within 90 days ofyour fiancé(e) entering the United States, and are both freeto marry, and have met in person within two years before your filing of this petition "

kaush, this is a supplementary reason why, in your case, it might be best to appeal their request for the new fee schedule. If you resubmit with the new fee then you are prospectively facing an RFE over the timing of your last visit with each other. Your previous application was within the requirements for application.

I do not wish to mislead you in any way. I am simply offering an opinion. Perhaps, you could make an appointment with an immigration lawyer before taking any decision on this matter given your circumstances.

I wish you the best of luck.

Thanks babblesgirl. Consulting an immigration lawyer is probably a good idea. We are considering one of the following two options:

1) Appeal their fee request right now, await a delay with the possibility of being overruled and having to resubmit everything again at a much later date than now.

2) Go ahead and resubmit the petition with the new fee and hope for an approval or wait for a possible RFE (or rejection). Basically just give them what they want without running the risk of having them put our file away (with the many who will be appealing) and deal with it if they send an RFE.

Either way we are in a pickle.

It is clear on our packet that someone went through everything, marked dates on several papers and then decided to send it back. In any case, I just emailed an immigration lawyer for advice. Lets see how soon we get out of this.

I wish you good luck too with your application. Hopefully yours will be a little more smoother than ours! Good luck!

Edited September 13, 2007 by kaush

[chris4gretchen 1]

The USCIS officially state here that applications postmarked ON or AFTER July 30th or OTHERWISE FILED (i.e. delivery by hand or some other means) ON or AFTER that date are subject to the new fee schedule.

I really don't think there is any ambiguity here; if the application left his hands BEFORE the 30th July and he has documented proof (via a postmark or delivery receipt) that the package was officially placed in the hands of some other official body (be it the postal service or a receiving officer -if delivery by other means - at the CSC) prior to the cut of date then USCIS have made a mistake. It is up to the petitioner to prove to USCIS that they submitted correctly, via a postal receipt.

youre splitting the statement at the wrong place.

applications postmarked on or after july 30th OR otherwise filed on.

you also are taking the otherwise filed on to mean postal delivery. thats not what they mean either. they dont even mean when they sign for it. Otherwise filed on means filed into their system.

their statement clearly reads in legal terms if your post mark is on or after july 30th OR if USCIS files your petition ON or after july 30th then the new fee increase applys. Doesnt say anywhere if your postmark is before july 30th then its good.

Chris

Edited September 13, 2007 by chris4gretchen

[bakofoil 27]

I'm more intrigued about this 'two year rule'. What is that?

I-129F application instructions state that " You and your fiancé(e) intend to marry within 90 days ofyour fiancé(e) entering the United States, and are both freeto marry, and have met in person within two years before your filing of this petition "

kaush, this is a supplementary reason why, in your case, it might be best to appeal their request for the new fee schedule. If you resubmit with the new fee then you are prospectively facing an RFE over the timing of your last visit with each other. Your previous application was within the requirements for application.

I do not wish to mislead you in any way. I am simply offering an opinion. Perhaps, you could make an appointment with an immigration lawyer before taking any decision on this matter given your circumstances.

I wish you the best of luck.

Thanks babblesgirl. Consulting an immigration lawyer is probably a good idea. We are considering one of the following two options:

1) Appeal their fee request right now, await a delay with the possibility of being overruled and having to resubmit everything again at a much later date than now.

2) Go ahead and resubmit the petition with the new fee and hope for an approval or wait for a possible RFE (or rejection). Basically just give them what they want without running the risk of having them put our file away (with the many who will be appealing) and deal with it if they send an RFE.

Either way we are in a pickle.

It is clear on our packet that someone went through everything, marked dates on several papers and then decided to send it back. In any case, I just emailed an immigration lawyer for advice. Lets see how soon we get out of this.

I wish you good luck too with your application. Hopefully yours will be a little more smoother than ours! Good luck!

Yeah, I was reading on some other website that people in this position were considering resubmitting with the new fee but making a separate appeal to obtain a refund. There is also some mention of contacting a USCIS ombudsman. Here's the link: http://boards.immigration.com/showthread.php?t=261575

If there is a name of anyone who handled your original application perhaps it might also be an idea to submit with a coloured front paper requesting the packet is not opened in the mailroom and marked for the attention of that particular officer (coloured paper is advised apparently when resubmitting) stating that you previously submitted in July and had the application returned. This might, at least, avoid an RFE on the visitation aspect later.

I'm in agreement with you that time is of a premium here. I just wish I knew the status of my application. It has been six weeks and nothing, no return, no check cashed..nothing. These things are often completely out of our hands.

[Bill y Bella 0]

Okay so I filed end of July and ran into a problem!!

I sent my package on July 27th and it reached TSC on July 30th (I had a return receipt).

If it reached them on July 30th, thats the day of the new fee increases. You missed the deadline. You sent it on a friday. they arent there to receive it on sat or sunday so monday the 30th is the earliest day. I feel bad for you having to start over, but you clearly missed the deadline. they had to officially receive it ( not just sign for the mail) before the 30th.

.... they werent going off postmarks, but their received date.

The requirement is for the application to be POSTMARKED prior to the 30th July; "WASHINGTON—U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) reminds its customers that the agency’s new fee schedule is effective on Monday, July 30, 2007. Applications or petitions postmarked or otherwise filed on or after that date must include the new fee."

There is some good advice on this scenario on the following thread: http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...t&p=1176939

No, youre missing it...

just because your postmark is the 27th or 28th doesnt mean you beat the deadline. it says OR OTHERWISE FILED ON or after.

that means if your postmark is on july 30th or after, OR if they received your petition and FILED IT into their system on July 30th then you have to pay the new fees.

they filed those petitions that they received from late friday and sat on monday. The day the new fees went into effect. didnt matter the postmark was 27th or 28th. You guys are giving bad advice to tell them to resend and USCIS made a mistake. Im sorry the people got them returned but USCIS has already made the decision on them and they wont overturn it.

Chris

Chris,

In all due respect I think you need to provide some documentation for your conclusions. Several times in this forum you have made some very definitive statements about USCIS's position on this matter. Where are you getting your information? If your advice to other members is based solely upon your interpretation of "otherwise filed" I think you are on shaky ground.

Attorneys get paid to fight over this kind of stuff but I have a very hard time accepting your interpretation of the wording. In this case I believe "otherwise filed" means filed by a means other than the US post office such as FEDEX, UPS, hand delivery, etc.

You seem to feel that "otherwise filed" means "the receipt of the petition entered into the USCIS system during regular working hours". All things are possible but I just can't believe that is what they were trying to say.

If the petition had to be officially received before July 30th to avoid the new fees, why is postmark mentioned at all? If the requirement is as you are describing the postmark would be irrelevant.

To the petitioner, at this point a few days are not critical. Contact your congressman or senator and ask them for assistance. They will have someone in their office assigned to assist constituents. Tell them the wording of the clause in question and your interpretation. Ask them to please contact USCIS on your behalf for an official explanation of the deadline. That way you will know for sure.

I doubt if you will get very far calling USCIS yourself and even if you can get someone to help you I don't know if you can rely on what you are told. It might be worth a try though just to see what they say. If you call them, follow the prompts as if you had received an RFE. I have heard that is the best way to get to a human who will talk to you.

I would definitely NOT resubmit with the higher fee or book a trip to India based on what I have seen here so far in this discussion. I would research this some more before I made my decision. If money was not an object you could just send the higher fee and forget about it. Unfortunately you then run the risk of an RFE or outright denial because you have not met the two year requirement.

Best of luck and please keep us posted on the developments.

[chris4gretchen 1]

actually the basis on this is from other topics where the received date and the signed date and the mailed date was bandied around with people trying to figure out what was the received date from the service centers to start the 6 month coutndown to knwo if you were overdue. in those discussions a number of posts were on USCIS and its method for filing dates and postmarks and signed for dates etc.

USCIS in those topics didnt pay any attention to postmarked dates, signed for dates etc. they only recognized the received date that the service center put the petition in to the system and filed it. nad htats what they put on the NOA1 and that was what was official.

of course i am NOT a lawyer but seems evident to me the same still applies here. especially when it reads clearly how i explained it. also is the fact that the petitions were RETURNED. i'd say CSC understands the statement the same way i read it.

you know what , i hope im wrong. and i think you should recommend that all these people resubmit with the old fee and a letter explaining the USCIS " mistake" that they just made. Im sure USCIS will certainly agree that postmarks should be taken into account and they hopefully will expedite all these petitions they have erroneously returned.

honestly i feel bad for everyone that got returned. i wish none did. but i think my reading of the statement matches CSC's and USCIS's intent. if it didnt, then we wouldnt even have this topic would we??? and i would be the first to agree i would love to be on shakey ground on this. you guys are puuting as much faith into otherwise filed on as meaning fedex, as i am putting it to mean filed into their system. id say we were equal.

the 2 year rule is a seperate problem in itself. i have no answer on that one. maybe they would let it slide since its days youre talking about.

Chris

Edited September 13, 2007 by chris4gretchen

[bakofoil 27]

....If the petition had to be officially received before July 30th to avoid the new fees, why is postmark mentioned at all? If the requirement is as you are describing the postmark would be irrelevant.

Thanks for your input Bill y Bella. I think you are absolutely correct on this. The mention of a postmark has to be relevant otherwise they would have stated 'received by a USCIS officer' or even 'filed within the USCIS system' on or after 30th July 2007.

There are many people who are facing filing issues (or prospective issues) associated with the USCIS fee schedule increase and it is important that 'we' are equipped with correct and relevant information to deal with any issues presented as a result of this deadline.

It is unfortunate that the fee increases have created an overwhelming of the system and we have to acknowledge that this is bound to produce processing errors. I imagine it has been stressful working at one of the service centers this past month or so.

We knew when we submitted that we would probably face a larger time delay than normal and that is the sole reason I am trying my best to remain patient and equip myself with relevant knowledge so that I can deal with any resulting issue, including the possible return of our application.

I agree also that in Kaush's case resubmitting the application with the new fee at this stage is possibly going to create the unnecessary risk of RFE or denial over the two year meeting requirement. Their case is not straightforward.

I am at least fortunate that I am merely facing a time delay along with most others who have filed recently. I also wonder how all of this has affected those who filed months ago and have been awaiting approval during this time.