The Return of Al Qaeda

[Dan J 277]

Ted Rall is a traitor. Anything he says has the same weight as Micheal Moore.

Wow, do you know what that word means? to use it so lightly? So anyone who criticizes you or your cause is a traitor. Well, I think you will do well as a dictator, they they agree with you, they are a traitor. If you really believe in democracy and America and not fascism, you wouldn't use that word so lightly.

You must not have seen some of his "cartoons". He depicts our troops as bloodthirsty maniacs that torture for pleasure. I don't care if he spoofs Bush or the war but some of the things I have seen him do are truly traitorous. I use that word in a very real sense.

Examples?

No, I have seen them. If you don't want to take my word for it then that is tough sh!t. I will not waste my time googling Ted Rall cartoons just to prove it to you.

Ok, I changed my mind. This is the one that really got me hot.

http://michellemalkin.com/2005/11/28/ted-r...-of-patriotism/

Do you agree with this??

And I thought you were all against political correctness?

I think there are rather more important things to be concerned about than a political cartoonist. It isn't worth fixating upon IMO.

Adam Yahiye Gadahn is a real traitor BTW.

I was merely commenting on the comic that someone tried to use as a way of making his point. I don't care if Ted Rall makes his filth or not. I just ignore him. But when he makes comics like that then he isn't an American in my view. There is a line and he stomped all over it.

The lovely thing about America, is that it gives you have the freedom to say whatever you want to say. And the freedom to do just about anything you want to do. You can still be a patriotic American and be opposed to the policies of our leaders. Being an American doesn't mean blindly following our leaders no matter what course they, choose. But being an American is having the freedom to be who we want to be. Freedom of speech, means free to say anything and everything you want. And even criticize the government and military. Without that right, we open the door to abuses of power and a greater erosion of democracy. Even in a democracy, goverments, attracts people who want power. Its it our freedoms that keep that in check.

[Heracles 417]

Who - The Muslims you say you're not talking about?

Most of the terrorists and source of hatred for the west is from the middle east. My comment described both people from the region as well as Islam, the predominant religion of Al Qaeda.

OK - but it seems to me that you're rather unfairly lumping together two separate things.

Perhaps you saw '300' too many times...

Everything in a discussion on terrorism seems to be unfairly or stereo typically lumped together. Yet when someone talks against the efforts of the coalition; then the previous is null an void while all hearsays and opinions are fact.

Edited July 12, 2007 by Infidel

[Heracles 417]

Our leaders our always right, they require our devotion and worship.

Gary, what you are describing is not democracy, its fascism. A blind devotion to the state. But guess what our leaders are human too, and they make mistakes. And they have made many mistakes leading up to what we have now. And there is nothing more American than to dissent when we think our leaders are making a mistake whether intentionally or not. I guess if you don't care for dissent, God save the Queen?

Ahh, the old "if you are for the war and support what we are doing I am a fascist" line. Spare me. That is just as valid as if I would say "anyone that opposes the war is a coward". That also isn't true. I just happen to agree with fighting back. That does not make me a fascist. You can bend over and take it in the azz from the terrorists if you want, I for one will always want to fight back.

Yes

Why should conservatives put their asses on the line to save predominantly liberal cities who are against using any military force in the first place.

[Dan J 277]

Our leaders our always right, they require our devotion and worship.

Gary, what you are describing is not democracy, its fascism. A blind devotion to the state. But guess what our leaders are human too, and they make mistakes. And they have made many mistakes leading up to what we have now. And there is nothing more American than to dissent when we think our leaders are making a mistake whether intentionally or not. I guess if you don't care for dissent, God save the Queen?

Ahh, the old "if you are for the war and support what we are doing I am a fascist" line. Spare me. That is just as valid as if I would say "anyone that opposes the war is a coward". That also isn't true. I just happen to agree with fighting back. That does not make me a fascist. You can bend over and take it in the azz from the terrorists if you want, I for one will always want to fight back.

Yes

Why should conservatives put their asses on the line to save predominantly liberal cities who are against using any military force in the first place.

Why should liberals and anyone else who opposed the war, pay for a war they don't support? You can fight the war, but not with my money.

Why not keep the soldiers at home and defend against terrorism here. Really, the war in Iraq, hasn't kept all terrorism there. There has been at least one successful plot in Britain, and many more foiled ones in both the US and Britain.

If this war, was really about protecting freedoms as it was in WW2, you would honestly see much more support for it. But pretty much every war since WW2 has been has been a presidential war. Its been about a political goal that doesn't have unilateral support from the people.

[GaryC 7]

Our leaders our always right, they require our devotion and worship.

Gary, what you are describing is not democracy, its fascism. A blind devotion to the state. But guess what our leaders are human too, and they make mistakes. And they have made many mistakes leading up to what we have now. And there is nothing more American than to dissent when we think our leaders are making a mistake whether intentionally or not. I guess if you don't care for dissent, God save the Queen?

Ahh, the old "if you are for the war and support what we are doing I am a fascist" line. Spare me. That is just as valid as if I would say "anyone that opposes the war is a coward". That also isn't true. I just happen to agree with fighting back. That does not make me a fascist. You can bend over and take it in the azz from the terrorists if you want, I for one will always want to fight back.

Yes

Why should conservatives put their asses on the line to save predominantly liberal cities who are against using any military force in the first place.

Why should liberals and anyone else who opposed the war, pay for a war they don't support? You can fight the war, but not with my money.

Why not keep the soldiers at home and defend against terrorism here. Really, the war in Iraq, hasn't kept all terrorism there. There has been at least one successful plot in Britain, and many more foiled ones in both the US and Britain.

If this war, was really about protecting freedoms as it was in WW2, you would honestly see much more support for it. But pretty much every war since WW2 has been has been a presidential war. Its been about a political goal that doesn't have unilateral support from the people.

That is what your not seeing and that is why you oppose the war. This isn't more WW2, it isn't a presidential war, it is the beginning of WW3. This isn't going to stop at Iraq and Afghanistan. Even if we were 100% successful in Iraq and Afghanistan it would continue somewhere else. There will never be a "we win" moment. This is a clash of two totally different ways of viewing the world and basic human rights. The worst part of it all is their side has no problem using terror tactics to fight their side. The respect no border and anyone that they perceive as an "infidel" (sorry infidel) should either convert or die. They don't wear uniforms, they hide behind women and children and they have no respect for human life. If we don't fight them where they are this will spread. It has already spread to a large portion of Europe. The terror in Spain, France, Great Briton and Scotland are evidence for that. It will happen here at some point. There is very little we could do to stop every terror attempt. If we just stand back, retreat to our borders and let the rest of the world have at it we may postpone the inevitable, but we will be hit again. But while this is happening the rest of the world gets infected with this radical perversion of Islam. This isn't some parinoid fixation that those that support the war have. It is the wider view of the future if we don't do something to stop it. This isn't about a "war" in Iraq. If you pull up stakes and leave the danger doesn't go away. It unfetters the danger and makes him stronger. The biggest reason we didn't have another major attack in the last 4 years is because we were winning. We fragmented and isolated the network. But they are also very smart. They are adapting to our attacks and have started to regain their strength. That means we need to adapt also. Declaring defeat and leaving isn't the way we make ourselves safe.

This is different from anything we have ever faced. For the first time there isn't a government that we are fighting. But is a war none the less.

[hmm1 0]

Nope, next time we are deploying to Mexico, to keep your gas pipeline safe...since Mexico can not do it themselves...AQ in Mexico...

? #######.. it was not alqaeda, it was a local bunch of loosers... the 'ejercito popular revolucionario' some wannabe guerrilla group.. where you got that bs? you just made it up or what.. what does Mexico have to do with these?

Has nothing to do with this at all...just trying to ruffle your feathers...and it seemed to work...

[Saddle Bronc 124]

Did the intel happen to mention that in less than three months, AQ has officially (the erstwhile government of one would have likely assumed AQ to be at jihad anyway, due to its own religious-militant ties) declared jihad on three nations (two Muslim-majority) who don't even like each other?

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...t&p=1041219

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

There will never be a "we win" moment.

Most certainly not if we keep pursuing Bush's losing strategy.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

There will never be a "we win" moment.

Most certainly not if we keep pursuing Bush's losing strategy.

Indeed. Considering that the war in Iraq "unnecessarily" widened the influence of AQ and similar groups.

[smoke20 0]

There will never be a "we win" moment.

Most certainly not if we keep pursuing Bush's losing strategy.

Indeed. Considering that the war in Iraq "unnecessarily" widened the influence of AQ and similar groups.

ok so whats the plan when we leave iraq & afganistan? now the islamic extremist are fighting our military on the other side of the world. what do you think is going to happen if we pull out? i doubt the sun comes out & everyone is giving each other big hugs & kisses is going to happen. i'm pretty sure the fight comes here. so whats the plan?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Some more questions for you:

1) What is the plan currently?

2) Why did we invade a country (Iraq) that had little (if anything) to do with the phenomenon we are currently dealing with?

The whole "fight them over here" argument is phoney anyway - you can more or less control the import of people into the country, but its rather difficult to control the import of ideas.

IMO its about rather more than "shall we pull out". At the least we should reassess what we're currently doing (i.e. what are the long term "achievable" goals). Certainly Iraq, which was justified on the basis of vague national security threats (that never materialised) seems to have been about things other than what was explained to the public.

[George and Jenny 0]

There will never be a "we win" moment.

Most certainly not if we keep pursuing Bush's losing strategy.

Indeed. Considering that the war in Iraq "unnecessarily" widened the influence of AQ and similar groups.

ok so whats the plan when we leave iraq & afganistan? now the islamic extremist are fighting our military on the other side of the world. what do you think is going to happen if we pull out? i doubt the sun comes out & everyone is giving each other big hugs & kisses is going to happen. i'm pretty sure the fight comes here. so whats the plan?

Oh, We will then all look back on these peaceful days-we are experiencing now, and wonder why did "our pullout" lead to so much more lose of lives there in Iraq and all over the f'_king world!!!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I've also noticed that people keep saying over and over again how AQ et al are not a regular, organised military force - yet the only idea that is being touted is to fight them as though they are.

[smoke20 0]

Some more questions for you:

1) What is the plan currently?

2) Why did we invade a country (Iraq) that had little (if anything) to do with the phenomenon we are currently dealing with?

The whole "fight them over here" argument is phoney anyway - you can more or less control the import of people into the country, but its rather difficult to control the import of ideas.

IMO its about rather more than "shall we pull out". At the least we should reassess what we're currently doing (i.e. what are the long term "achievable" goals). Certainly Iraq, which was justified on the basis of vague national security threats (that never materialised) seems to have been about things other than what was explained to the public.

so you don't have a plan, you just want to sit here & bi*ch about a mistake we all know was a mistake. i'll as you again.

ok so whats the plan when we leave iraq & afganistan? now the islamic extremist are fighting our military on the other side of the world. what do you think is going to happen if we pull out? i doubt the sun comes out & everyone is giving each other big hugs & kisses is going to happen. i'm pretty sure the fight comes here. so whats the plan?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Some more questions for you:

1) What is the plan currently?

2) Why did we invade a country (Iraq) that had little (if anything) to do with the phenomenon we are currently dealing with?

The whole "fight them over here" argument is phoney anyway - you can more or less control the import of people into the country, but its rather difficult to control the import of ideas.

IMO its about rather more than "shall we pull out". At the least we should reassess what we're currently doing (i.e. what are the long term "achievable" goals). Certainly Iraq, which was justified on the basis of vague national security threats (that never materialised) seems to have been about things other than what was explained to the public.

so you don't have a plan, you just want to sit here & bi*ch about a mistake we all know was a mistake. i'll as you again.

ok so whats the plan when we leave iraq & afganistan? now the islamic extremist are fighting our military on the other side of the world. what do you think is going to happen if we pull out? i doubt the sun comes out & everyone is giving each other big hugs & kisses is going to happen. i'm pretty sure the fight comes here. so whats the plan?

The "plan" should be greater international cooperation and an end to unilateral military adventures that make the problem worse. As I said, at some point we should reassess what we're doing, and whether it does what it says on the tin. I don't think that is unreasonable.

Again you lot seem happy to elaborate on the unique nature of this threat, but can't come up with a better idea than fighting them as though they are a conventional military force. Given the "drop the bomb" comments earlier in the thread I'd say people's understanding of diplomacy and foreign policy is laughably bad.