The Return of Al Qaeda

[Dan J 277]

There are some people that were in the London subways that would be willing to show you that your claim hasn't happened. There have been many more failed plots both in the US and the UK. So, whats this about another 9/11 not happening? There are very likely plans in the works for another event like 9/11. Fuel by the anger of our activities in Iraq. So. your argument makes no sense. We spent 400 billion, there are still and have been more plots against the US and Britain.

Calling these people terrorists makes it really easy to forget how much of a hand we had in creating the situation we are dealing with today. We have generated the anger that many people have against us. This is a situation we created as much as it was forced upon us. But how easily we forget history, blame everything on them.

Any extremist group, wether Islamic, Christian, political or otherwise, needs 2 things to stay in power and be effective. Support of the people, and resources. You take away the support of the people by righting the wrongs, or addressing their concerns, the group withers away. They don't have support, which in turn limits the resources, and well, not much you can do anymore.

So by killing innocent civilians, unilaterally supporting Israel, supporting coups against governments we don't like (even if democratically elected). Do these people end up with love for the US? Not likely. While many people in a normal situation would feel no need to support Islamic extremism, they do because no one else will oppose the US. By using only military solution, we are only giving the people more reason to oppose the US and more money and power to the groups that do.

And you say this is working? How?

What a babe in the woods you are!! Do you really think we can make nice and these terrorists will just say "Oh, thank you. Now we can be friends!" We were not in Iraq when 9/11 happend. They want us dead. No negotiations will solve that. The only way to be safe is to take the fight to them.

Your probably going to get your wish. If Clinton or Oboma win the white house and the dem cowards in congress hold their power they will try just what you are wanting. One of two things will happen. We will get smacked again and again here in the USA or we will become their b!tches. When your wife is covered from head to toe, can't work or drive and you are forced to convert to their god awfull brand of Islam then you will remember this conversation. But by then it will be to late.

Lets try this, maybe get some Islamic countries to start messing around in the US. You know, take away some land and put in an Islamic country. Maybe support coup against our democratic government and install a dictator, or maybe arm Canada to get them to attack us, or have them launch a war that kills many innocent Americans because of the American terrorists in the country or because we have WMD's. You don't like that? My point exactly.

If you don't to live in a violent world, then don't help make one. But instead you advocate violence is the only way to peace, but the truth is violence only creates more violence by giving power to the propaganda of those who want to commit violence. You feed the their cause. When you start seeing the world for what it really is, you will see that most people are not terrorists, but are driven to support terrorism as the only way to get a voice.

[Heracles 417]

Amazing you have the cheek to say that after your "5,000 years" comment

Comment was about the middle east and not islam.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Amazing you have the cheek to say that after your "5,000 years" comment

Comment was about the middle east and not islam.

If you take "ideology" out of your argument its essentially meaningless. Otherwise you would seem to be suggesting that the ME was more violent and bloodthirsty than anywhere else in the ancient/medieval world. Hate to burst your bubble there - but it isn't true.

[Dan J 277]

the islamic extremist are waging jihad. the biggest problem is this really boils down to a religious war, being fought globally. and faith is the 1 thing noone can question, and most people are the most passionate about. the islamic extremist hate anyone who isn't islamic, and somehow twist the islamic religion into a justification to kill anyone who doesn't have the same belief as them. i don't understand it anyway.

i don't think we can ever leave iraq: we break it we own it. Colin Powell i'm sure you've all seen this- http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17722026

the world is is in a bad way & i think its going to get worse. i don't think admitting defeat & coming home is in anyone's best intrest. if we're not going to fight this war over seas, we're going to fight it in the US. i don't think anyone wants to see that. this war has been going on for centuries on 9/11 it finally reached US shores.

Every religion and every group has a certain number of people who could be considered extreme. Most of time, they have no power. As they don't have much support from other than the tiny fraction of people who support their cause. This isn't simply an Islamic thing. There have been Christians who have selectively used parts of the bible to support their extreme causes, in some cases resorting to terrorism or other violence in the name of God.

But what makes the situation of Islamic terrorism different in modern times, is the wide spread public support that its gotten. Much of it is due to the policies of the west in the middle east. Go to Islamic countries outside of the middle east and you will find Islamic extremism has very little support and those countries are also democratic (albeit a bit corrupt but thats another issue).

[Scott & Lai 12]

Don't give people a reason to support or join one of those groups. Which means to stop meddling in the middle east as well as forcing Israel to make peace with its neighbors. There are other things we can do as well to counteract the resentment many people have to the US. But it will take years and well, doesn't make our friends at Haliburton and Blackwater much money. Press releases and propaganda don't work, but improving the lives of many people in the middle east will. Improving their lives, doesn't mean leaving their country in a state of perpetual violence.

Al Queda won't automatically disappear, but it will fade as its popular support fades. Without a supply of recruits and money, it wont be able to continue its goals.

How is Israel to make peace with people that want them wiped off the map? And how do we improve the lives of people in the Middle East when they are bent on slaughtering or oppressing one another?

[Heracles 417]

Amazing you have the cheek to say that after your "5,000 years" comment

Comment was about the middle east and not islam.

If you take "ideology" out of your argument its essentially meaningless. Otherwise you would seem to be suggesting that the ME was more violent and bloodthirsty than anywhere else in the ancient/medieval world. Hate to burst your bubble there - but it isn't true.

They must have been peaceful until we got there..

[Dan J 277]

Amazing you have the cheek to say that after your "5,000 years" comment

Comment was about the middle east and not islam.

Greeks and Romans were pretty violent in their conquest of the known world. And they did have a part to play in the middle east as well as northern Europe. Japan has had its wars between different houses. Chinese and the Mongolians have had wars.

Violence has been part of human nature for very long time, no matter where you are.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Amazing you have the cheek to say that after your "5,000 years" comment

Comment was about the middle east and not islam.

If you take "ideology" out of your argument its essentially meaningless. Otherwise you would seem to be suggesting that the ME was more violent and bloodthirsty than anywhere else in the ancient/medieval world. Hate to burst your bubble there - but it isn't true.

They must have been peaceful until we got there..

Who - The Muslims you say you're not talking about?

[LuzyC 0]

So, what do we do now?

Take the advice that an expert panel has given the blockheads at 1600 Penn Ave over half a year ago and start developing the immediate and mid-term steps along that advice. Force this idiot President of ours out of the fcuking disaster he has gotten this country into with his stubborn ignorance. Iraq is lost. It has been lost for the past 4 years. Time we face that reality: When you're in the hole trying to get out, the most important thing is to stop digging.

Iraq is only lost when we give up.

No, George, it was lost the minute you went in not knowing what you're doing.

Remember the first order of the day: Stop digging.

....

Edited July 12, 2007 by LuzyC

[Heracles 417]

But what makes the situation of Islamic terrorism different in modern times, is the wide spread public support that its gotten. Much of it is due to the policies of the west in the middle east.

The policies of the west should not give someone the right to go kill innocent people. They are killing their own people..

If the US completely pulled out, cut all ties, banned all travel, stopped the selling or importing of all middle eastern products etc do you believe this hatred would stop? Do you believe Al qaeda would stop trying to attack?

[GaryC 7]

So, what do we do now?

Take the advice that an expert panel has given the blockheads at 1600 Penn Ave over half a year ago and start developing the immediate and mid-term steps along that advice. Force this idiot President of ours out of the fcuking disaster he has gotten this country into with his stubborn ignorance. Iraq is lost. It has been lost for the past 4 years. Time we face that reality: When you're in the hole trying to get out, the most important thing is to stop digging.

Iraq is only lost when we give up.

No, George, it was lost the minute you went in not knowing what you're doing.

Remember the first order of the day: Stop digging.

No Mertha, we loose when we give up. We are not digging, we are winning. You just don't want to admit that. Wars are not won on a timetable. It's to bad you don't have the stomach for it. I am glad we have people of courage that are willing to do what it takes and ignore the cowards of this country.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

So, what do we do now?

Take the advice that an expert panel has given the blockheads at 1600 Penn Ave over half a year ago and start developing the immediate and mid-term steps along that advice. Force this idiot President of ours out of the fcuking disaster he has gotten this country into with his stubborn ignorance. Iraq is lost. It has been lost for the past 4 years. Time we face that reality: When you're in the hole trying to get out, the most important thing is to stop digging.

Iraq is only lost when we give up.

No, George, it was lost the minute you went in not knowing what you're doing.

Remember the first order of the day: Stop digging.

No Mertha, we loose when we give up. We are not digging, we are winning. You just don't want to admit that. Wars are not won on a timetable. It's to bad you don't have the stomach for it. I am glad we have people of courage that are willing to do what it takes and ignore the cowards of this country.

Too bad the "gung-ho" cowboys of this country aren't interested or equipped for a real debate as to what we're actually doing. I don't know about you - but I've had enough of bloody slogans that get people killed.

Judging by the attempted attacks in the UK last week - claims of 'victory' would seem to be rather premature.

[Heracles 417]

Who - The Muslims you say you're not talking about?

Most of the terrorists and source of hatred for the west is from the middle east. My comment described both people from the region as well as Islam, the predominant religion of Al Qaeda.

Edited July 12, 2007 by Infidel

[GaryC 7]

the islamic extremist are waging jihad. the biggest problem is this really boils down to a religious war, being fought globally. and faith is the 1 thing noone can question, and most people are the most passionate about. the islamic extremist hate anyone who isn't islamic, and somehow twist the islamic religion into a justification to kill anyone who doesn't have the same belief as them. i don't understand it anyway.

i don't think we can ever leave iraq: we break it we own it. Colin Powell i'm sure you've all seen this- http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17722026

the world is is in a bad way & i think its going to get worse. i don't think admitting defeat & coming home is in anyone's best intrest. if we're not going to fight this war over seas, we're going to fight it in the US. i don't think anyone wants to see that. this war has been going on for centuries on 9/11 it finally reached US shores.

Every religion and every group has a certain number of people who could be considered extreme. Most of time, they have no power. As they don't have much support from other than the tiny fraction of people who support their cause. This isn't simply an Islamic thing. There have been Christians who have selectively used parts of the bible to support their extreme causes, in some cases resorting to terrorism or other violence in the name of God.

But what makes the situation of Islamic terrorism different in modern times, is the wide spread public support that its gotten. Much of it is due to the policies of the west in the middle east. Go to Islamic countries outside of the middle east and you will find Islamic extremism has very little support and those countries are also democratic (albeit a bit corrupt but thats another issue).

I just love the way you blame us for everything. The facts are that the terrorists do not have wide spread support. They are a small but well funded bunch of lunatics that are supported by power hungry and corrupt governments that see this as a way to gain and hold power. Your world view is so slanted against the US I am surprised that you would even call yourself an American.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Who - The Muslims you say you're not talking about?

Most of the terrorists and source of hatred for the west is from the middle east. My comment described both people from the region as well as Islam, the predominant religion of Al Qaeda.

OK - but it seems to me that you're rather unfairly lumping together two separate things.

Perhaps you saw '300' too many times...