The Return of Al Qaeda

[JoeMama 0]

After 9/11, we should've dropped a nuke right on the Al-Qeda and Taliban training camps in Afghanistan. And dropped a 2nd one to reassure terrorists, and training camps alike, the US retaliation is ABSOLUTELY UNMISTAKEABLE. It worked in WWII, it would've worked again and cut out all this bullchit our troops are having to deal with on the ground there.

[Heracles 417]

I think some westerners think its pretty dumb to believe that a widespread ideology can be eradicated with military force.

Unfortunately the violence and intimidation, through terror, is the only language they understand.

That has not changed in over 5,000 years.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

AQ has regrouped not because our soldiers have been slacking off but because their commander in chief has them putzing around in Iraq while AQ regroups in the slums of Pakistan.

Wrong again. They have regrouped because they moved from Afganistan to Pakistan where they are out of our reach. Unless you are advocating invading Pakistan there isn't much we can do about them now.

With all the manpower that Bush pointlessly - rather: in a vastly counterproductive manner - sent to Iraq, you figure we could have sealed or at least controlled that Afghan/Pakistani border well enough to ensure that they don't migrate there? Just some food for thought there...

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

AQ has regrouped not because our soldiers have been slacking off but because their commander in chief has them putzing around in Iraq while AQ regroups in the slums of Pakistan.

Wrong again. They have regrouped because they moved from Afganistan to Pakistan where they are out of our reach. Unless you are advocating invading Pakistan there isn't much we can do about them now.

There isn't much we can do? That makes us sound like losers. What happened to "whatever it takes"?

[Heracles 417]

The US is responsible for over 100,000 innocent deaths in the Iraq conflict. Most of was due to the bombings done at the start of the conflict.

Can you show me where and how 100,000 people died during a precision bombing campaign.

And because of how its armed some of the countries and factions that are now our enemy.

That's like saying that if I was once friends with someone and later found out that they abused their partner; it would be hypocritical of me to hit them because they where once my friend.

Yes they sell weapons like most other developed countries do. Iraq was fighting Iran back then so of course they are going to sell the Iraqis weapons.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The casualty figures are debatable - but I think its true to say that there has been significant collateral damage, and that this has exacerbated the resentment towards the US & Europe. In fact wasn't there a report a few months ago to that effect?

Problem is Iraq had nothing to do with getting Bin Laden - but it has certainly muddied the waters around it with sadly predictable results. Resurgence of the Taliban & Al Qaeda - or rather 'not' so much a resurgence as the fact that they simply weren't definitively defeated in the first place. That doesn't stop people believing that once it stops appearing in the news that the war is over. Sadly not.

Saddam was no friend to the US certainly, but he was no friend to Bin Laden either. The resulting power vacuum from kicking him from power collapse, coupled with poor planning of the invasion (by Rumsfeld et al) has effectively facilitated the emergence of fundamentalist violence over there. I wouldn't use the word 'blame' but certainly there is a fairly obvious and predictable cause and effect relationship going on.

[Heracles 417]

AQ has regrouped not because our soldiers have been slacking off but because their commander in chief has them putzing around in Iraq while AQ regroups in the slums of Pakistan.

Wrong again. They have regrouped because they moved from Afganistan to Pakistan where they are out of our reach. Unless you are advocating invading Pakistan there isn't much we can do about them now.

There isn't much we can do? That makes us sound like losers. What happened to "whatever it takes"?

Obviously we are not going to invade Pakistan.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

AQ has regrouped not because our soldiers have been slacking off but because their commander in chief has them putzing around in Iraq while AQ regroups in the slums of Pakistan.

Wrong again. They have regrouped because they moved from Afganistan to Pakistan where they are out of our reach. Unless you are advocating invading Pakistan there isn't much we can do about them now.

There isn't much we can do? That makes us sound like losers. What happened to "whatever it takes"?

Obviously we are not going to invade Pakistan.

Then why did Bush let them slip over there?

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

AQ has regrouped not because our soldiers have been slacking off but because their commander in chief has them putzing around in Iraq while AQ regroups in the slums of Pakistan.

Wrong again. They have regrouped because they moved from Afganistan to Pakistan where they are out of our reach. Unless you are advocating invading Pakistan there isn't much we can do about them now.

There isn't much we can do? That makes us sound like losers. What happened to "whatever it takes"?

Obviously we are not going to invade Pakistan.

Then we are losers. Because that's where the enemy is and has been all along. The Talib were just muscle, the brains of it all has always been within the "intelligence agencies" and their military allies within Pakistan.

[pedroh 21]

Nah, I am waiting to see what those that say there is no terrorist threat will say.

Well, seems that a trillion dollars and an additional three and a half thousand lost American lives later, we're right back to square one.

What an accomplished strategery.

What do you expect? Kill over 100,000 innocent people with bombs and whatever else. Think there might be people pissed off at the US?

Since no state will really oppose the US, without getting obliterated, who else do these people have to turn to? So if the US has accomplished anything in Iraq or Afghanistan, its has increase support for Islamic extremest groups as they are the only ones willing to oppose and attack the US.

Many of the extremist groups have been around for a long time. But due to the US, and other western nations meddling in the middle east because of the oil, they have managed to get a lot of popular support from the disadvantaged and a lot of money.

We were pissed after September 11th. And we struck out violently in anger. Killing many innocent people. Now they will do the same or at least try to. If our only answer to terrorism is more violence, then we will be dealing with this cycle for decades. Every time we attack, we will kill innocent people. And give more power to those that would try to attack us.

And your answer would have been what? Stand there and let them hit us again? That is the cowards way out. For 4+ years we haven't been hit. It seems that what we did has worked so far. I say keep at it.

so the us armed forces will have to stay there forever so USA doesn't get hit again?

As long as it takes.

who's gonna pay the bill?

We are. Gladly to keep another 9/11 from happening. Do you value money over your safety? Money is hard to spend when your dead. This isn't a fight we wanted, it was forced upon us. We have two choices, fight or die. There is no negotiations with these types. There is no "changing how they feel about us" #######. They want us dead because they want to take over the west with their brand of ideology. Screw that, I choose fight.

dude,that sounds like a soundbit from an O'Reilly factor show.. i really think there are a lot of variables that have kept the USA safe from terrorist attacks than just 'us being there'.. i respect that you choose fight, but i think imo its pointless, so, again, what about the people that are unhappy paying the bill, what will happen in 2-3 years when the debt is huge? deficits? yea, money is hard to spend where you're dead, but also money's hard to spend when is scarce or devalued

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I think some westerners think its pretty dumb to believe that a widespread ideology can be eradicated with military force.

Unfortunately the violence and intimidation, through terror, is the only language they understand.

That has not changed in over 5,000 years.

5000 years? Islam isn't exactly that old...

[Dan J 277]

Nah, I am waiting to see what those that say there is no terrorist threat will say.

Well, seems that a trillion dollars and an additional three and a half thousand lost American lives later, we're right back to square one.

What an accomplished strategery.

What do you expect? Kill over 100,000 innocent people with bombs and whatever else. Think there might be people pissed off at the US?

Since no state will really oppose the US, without getting obliterated, who else do these people have to turn to? So if the US has accomplished anything in Iraq or Afghanistan, its has increase support for Islamic extremest groups as they are the only ones willing to oppose and attack the US.

Many of the extremist groups have been around for a long time. But due to the US, and other western nations meddling in the middle east because of the oil, they have managed to get a lot of popular support from the disadvantaged and a lot of money.

We were pissed after September 11th. And we struck out violently in anger. Killing many innocent people. Now they will do the same or at least try to. If our only answer to terrorism is more violence, then we will be dealing with this cycle for decades. Every time we attack, we will kill innocent people. And give more power to those that would try to attack us.

And your answer would have been what? Stand there and let them hit us again? That is the cowards way out. For 4+ years we haven't been hit. It seems that what we did has worked so far. I say keep at it.

so the us armed forces will have to stay there forever so USA doesn't get hit again?

As long as it takes.

who's gonna pay the bill?

We are. Gladly to keep another 9/11 from happening. Do you value money over your safety? Money is hard to spend when your dead. This isn't a fight we wanted, it was forced upon us. We have two choices, fight or die. There is no negotiations with these types. There is no "changing how they feel about us" #######. They want us dead because they want to take over the west with their brand of ideology. Screw that, I choose fight.

There are some people that were in the London subways that would be willing to show you that your claim hasn't happened. There have been many more failed plots both in the US and the UK. So, whats this about another 9/11 not happening? There are very likely plans in the works for another event like 9/11. Fuel by the anger of our activities in Iraq. So. your argument makes no sense. We spent 400 billion, there are still and have been more plots against the US and Britain.

Calling these people terrorists makes it really easy to forget how much of a hand we had in creating the situation we are dealing with today. We have generated the anger that many people have against us. This is a situation we created as much as it was forced upon us. But how easily we forget history, blame everything on them.

Any extremist group, wether Islamic, Christian, political or otherwise, needs 2 things to stay in power and be effective. Support of the people, and resources. You take away the support of the people by righting the wrongs, or addressing their concerns, the group withers away. They don't have support, which in turn limits the resources, and well, not much you can do anymore.

So by killing innocent civilians, unilaterally supporting Israel, supporting coups against governments we don't like (even if democratically elected). Do these people end up with love for the US? Not likely. While many people in a normal situation would feel no need to support Islamic extremism, they do because no one else will oppose the US. By using only military solution, we are only giving the people more reason to oppose the US and more money and power to the groups that do.

And you say this is working? How?

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

... money's hard to spend when is scarce or devalued

As long as the Chinese are willing to buy our paper, this won't be a problem.

Contrary to what all the pessimists say, I think the day the Chinese no longer want our paper is very far away.

I think some westerners think its pretty dumb to believe that a widespread ideology can be eradicated with military force.

Unfortunately the violence and intimidation, through terror, is the only language they understand.

That has not changed in over 5,000 years.

5000 years? Islam isn't exactly that old...

ROFL.

[Heracles 417]

After 9/11, we should've dropped a nuke right on the Al-Qeda and Taliban training camps in Afghanistan. And dropped a 2nd one to reassure terrorists, and training camps alike, the US retaliation is ABSOLUTELY UNMISTAKEABLE. It worked in WWII, it would've worked again and cut out all this bullchit our troops are having to deal with on the ground there.

I was saying the same thing the other day.

Let them nuke one or more of of our major cities. Then we can fight back with everything we have. In such a situation I would I suggest a strategy of asking them daily to hand over the terrorists. If the fail to comply we nuke a city in those regions. We play the same game every day until they hand over the terrorists or we run out of land to bomb.

I think some westerners think its pretty dumb to believe that a widespread ideology can be eradicated with military force.

Unfortunately the violence and intimidation, through terror, is the only language they understand.

That has not changed in over 5,000 years.

5000 years? Islam isn't exactly that old...

ROFL.

I was talking about the middle east

Edited July 12, 2007 by Infidel

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

After 9/11, we should've dropped a nuke right on the Al-Qeda and Taliban training camps in Afghanistan. And dropped a 2nd one to reassure terrorists, and training camps alike, the US retaliation is ABSOLUTELY UNMISTAKEABLE. It worked in WWII, it would've worked again and cut out all this bullchit our troops are having to deal with on the ground there.

I was saying the same thing the other day.

Let them nuke one or more of of our major cities. Then we can fight back with everything we have. In such a situation I would I suggest a strategy of asking them daily to hand over the terrorists. If the fail to comply we nuke a city in those regions. We play the same game every day until they hand over the terrorists or we run out of land to bomb.

That's insane.