The Return of Al Qaeda

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Here is a snippet from part of the Duelfer report - specifically the section on Iraq's chemical weapons programs. The rest of the report is freely available online.

While a small number of old, abandoned chemical munitions have been discovered, ISG judges that Iraq

unilaterally destroyed its undeclared chemical weapons stockpile in 1991. There are no credible indications

that Baghdad resumed production of chemical munitions thereafter, a policy ISG attributes to Baghdad’s desire

to see sanctions lifted, or rendered ineffectual, or its fear of force against it should WMD be discovered.

• The scale of the Iraqi conventional munitions stockpile, among other factors, precluded an examination of

the entire stockpile; however, ISG inspected sites judged most likely associated with possible storage or

deployment of chemical weapons.

Iraq’s CW program was crippled by the Gulf war and the legitimate chemical industry, which suffered under

sanctions, only began to recover in the mid-1990s. Subsequent changes in the management of key military

and civilian organizations, followed by an infl ux of funding and resources, provided Iraq with the ability to

reinvigorate its industrial base.

• Poor policies and management in the early 1990s left the Military Industrial Commission (MIC) fi nancially

unsound and in a state of almost complete disarray.

[GaryC 7]

Here is a snippet from part of the Duelfer report - specifically the section on Iraq's chemical weapons programs. The rest of the report is freely available online.

While a small number of old, abandoned chemical munitions have been discovered, ISG judges that Iraq

unilaterally destroyed its undeclared chemical weapons stockpile in 1991. There are no credible indications

that Baghdad resumed production of chemical munitions thereafter, a policy ISG attributes to Baghdad’s desire

to see sanctions lifted, or rendered ineffectual, or its fear of force against it should WMD be discovered.

• The scale of the Iraqi conventional munitions stockpile, among other factors, precluded an examination of

the entire stockpile; however, ISG inspected sites judged most likely associated with possible storage or

deployment of chemical weapons.

Iraq’s CW program was crippled by the Gulf war and the legitimate chemical industry, which suffered under

sanctions, only began to recover in the mid-1990s. Subsequent changes in the management of key military

and civilian organizations, followed by an infl ux of funding and resources, provided Iraq with the ability to

reinvigorate its industrial base.

• Poor policies and management in the early 1990s left the Military Industrial Commission (MIC) fi nancially

unsound and in a state of almost complete disarray.

<shakes head> You just will not see the forest for the trees. Ok, think what you will. But if you think Saddam destroyed his WMD's in the 4 years he had kicked out the inspectors I have to question your motives. Why would he kick them out and THEN destroy his WMD's? That makes no sense at all!!!! And then when we threaten to kick his azz he lets them back in only to play games with them, not letting them in one place for a few days and then letting them in.

Saddam knew that we were going to open a world of hurt on him. Why would he invite it like that? What reason would he have??

You want to know the real villan in all of this? Bill Clinton. While he was getting BJ's on the job the Taliban was taking over Afganistan. While he was flavoring his cigars, OBL and AQ were planning 9/11. While he was lying to the American people Saddam was kicking out the inspectors. While he was sending tomahawks into empty training camps Saddam was shooting at our planes. Clinton was an absent tee president. All of the bad things that have happened in the last 6 years got it's start while he was president. Bush inherited this mess and had to deal with it. Then to add insult to injury the left wing is blaming him! What a crock.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Here is a snippet from part of the Duelfer report - specifically the section on Iraq's chemical weapons programs. The rest of the report is freely available online.

While a small number of old, abandoned chemical munitions have been discovered, ISG judges that Iraq

unilaterally destroyed its undeclared chemical weapons stockpile in 1991. There are no credible indications

that Baghdad resumed production of chemical munitions thereafter, a policy ISG attributes to Baghdad’s desire

to see sanctions lifted, or rendered ineffectual, or its fear of force against it should WMD be discovered.

• The scale of the Iraqi conventional munitions stockpile, among other factors, precluded an examination of

the entire stockpile; however, ISG inspected sites judged most likely associated with possible storage or

deployment of chemical weapons.

Iraq’s CW program was crippled by the Gulf war and the legitimate chemical industry, which suffered under

sanctions, only began to recover in the mid-1990s. Subsequent changes in the management of key military

and civilian organizations, followed by an infl ux of funding and resources, provided Iraq with the ability to

reinvigorate its industrial base.

• Poor policies and management in the early 1990s left the Military Industrial Commission (MIC) fi nancially

unsound and in a state of almost complete disarray.

<shakes head> You just will not see the forest for the trees. Ok, think what you will. But if you think Saddam destroyed his WMD's in the 4 years he had kicked out the inspectors I have to question your motives. Why would he kick them out and THEN destroy his WMD's? That makes no sense at all!!!! And then when we threaten to kick his azz he lets them back in only to play games with them, not letting them in one place for a few days and then letting them in.

Saddam knew that we were going to open a world of hurt on him. Why would he invite it like that? What reason would he have??

You want to know the real villan in all of this? Bill Clinton. While he was getting BJ's on the job the Taliban was taking over Afganistan. While he was flavoring his cigars, OBL and AQ were planning 9/11. While he was lying to the American people Saddam was kicking out the inspectors. While he was sending tomahawks into empty training camps Saddam was shooting at our planes. Clinton was an absent tee president. All of the bad things that have happened in the last 6 years got it's start while he was president. Bush inherited this mess and had to deal with it. Then to add insult to injury the left wing is blaming him! What a crock.

Finally! It's all Slick Willy's fault. Well done, Gary. Well done.

Of course, you could have just come out and said so much earlier...

[GaryC 7]

Here is a snippet from part of the Duelfer report - specifically the section on Iraq's chemical weapons programs. The rest of the report is freely available online.

While a small number of old, abandoned chemical munitions have been discovered, ISG judges that Iraq

unilaterally destroyed its undeclared chemical weapons stockpile in 1991. There are no credible indications

that Baghdad resumed production of chemical munitions thereafter, a policy ISG attributes to Baghdad’s desire

to see sanctions lifted, or rendered ineffectual, or its fear of force against it should WMD be discovered.

• The scale of the Iraqi conventional munitions stockpile, among other factors, precluded an examination of

the entire stockpile; however, ISG inspected sites judged most likely associated with possible storage or

deployment of chemical weapons.

Iraq’s CW program was crippled by the Gulf war and the legitimate chemical industry, which suffered under

sanctions, only began to recover in the mid-1990s. Subsequent changes in the management of key military

and civilian organizations, followed by an infl ux of funding and resources, provided Iraq with the ability to

reinvigorate its industrial base.

• Poor policies and management in the early 1990s left the Military Industrial Commission (MIC) fi nancially

unsound and in a state of almost complete disarray.

<shakes head> You just will not see the forest for the trees. Ok, think what you will. But if you think Saddam destroyed his WMD's in the 4 years he had kicked out the inspectors I have to question your motives. Why would he kick them out and THEN destroy his WMD's? That makes no sense at all!!!! And then when we threaten to kick his azz he lets them back in only to play games with them, not letting them in one place for a few days and then letting them in.

Saddam knew that we were going to open a world of hurt on him. Why would he invite it like that? What reason would he have??

You want to know the real villan in all of this? Bill Clinton. While he was getting BJ's on the job the Taliban was taking over Afganistan. While he was flavoring his cigars, OBL and AQ were planning 9/11. While he was lying to the American people Saddam was kicking out the inspectors. While he was sending tomahawks into empty training camps Saddam was shooting at our planes. Clinton was an absent tee president. All of the bad things that have happened in the last 6 years got it's start while he was president. Bush inherited this mess and had to deal with it. Then to add insult to injury the left wing is blaming him! What a crock.

Finally! It's all Slick Willy's fault. Well done, Gary. Well done.

Of course, you could have just come out and said so much earlier...

It makes more sense than anything you have been saying.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Gary - the passage I quoted was from an Iraq Study Group report under Dr Kay's replacement.

As I remember it - the decision to go to war seemed to have already been made and proceeded regardless of any conciliatory gestures by Saddam. Iraq accepted UN Resolution 1441 on November 13th 2002 and allowed weapons inspectors back into the country.

Edited July 14, 2007 by Number 6

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Here is a snippet from part of the Duelfer report - specifically the section on Iraq's chemical weapons programs. The rest of the report is freely available online.

While a small number of old, abandoned chemical munitions have been discovered, ISG judges that Iraq

unilaterally destroyed its undeclared chemical weapons stockpile in 1991. There are no credible indications

that Baghdad resumed production of chemical munitions thereafter, a policy ISG attributes to Baghdad’s desire

to see sanctions lifted, or rendered ineffectual, or its fear of force against it should WMD be discovered.

• The scale of the Iraqi conventional munitions stockpile, among other factors, precluded an examination of

the entire stockpile; however, ISG inspected sites judged most likely associated with possible storage or

deployment of chemical weapons.

Iraq’s CW program was crippled by the Gulf war and the legitimate chemical industry, which suffered under

sanctions, only began to recover in the mid-1990s. Subsequent changes in the management of key military

and civilian organizations, followed by an infl ux of funding and resources, provided Iraq with the ability to

reinvigorate its industrial base.

• Poor policies and management in the early 1990s left the Military Industrial Commission (MIC) fi nancially

unsound and in a state of almost complete disarray.

<shakes head> You just will not see the forest for the trees. Ok, think what you will. But if you think Saddam destroyed his WMD's in the 4 years he had kicked out the inspectors I have to question your motives. Why would he kick them out and THEN destroy his WMD's? That makes no sense at all!!!! And then when we threaten to kick his azz he lets them back in only to play games with them, not letting them in one place for a few days and then letting them in.

Saddam knew that we were going to open a world of hurt on him. Why would he invite it like that? What reason would he have??

You want to know the real villan in all of this? Bill Clinton. While he was getting BJ's on the job the Taliban was taking over Afganistan. While he was flavoring his cigars, OBL and AQ were planning 9/11. While he was lying to the American people Saddam was kicking out the inspectors. While he was sending tomahawks into empty training camps Saddam was shooting at our planes. Clinton was an absent tee president. All of the bad things that have happened in the last 6 years got it's start while he was president. Bush inherited this mess and had to deal with it. Then to add insult to injury the left wing is blaming him! What a crock.

Finally! It's all Slick Willy's fault. Well done, Gary. Well done.

Of course, you could have just come out and said so much earlier...

It makes more sense than anything you have been saying.

To you, I'm sure, it does. But then remember that you're the last guy left on the planet that believes the fairytale that Saddam shipped his arsenal and facilities to Syria. Not that there's any shred of evidence. Seems to me that the oddest things make sense to you. How about that ole' area 51? Lemme guess: Clinton's fault.

Edited July 14, 2007 by ET-US2004

[GaryC 7]

Gary - the passage I quoted was from an Iraq Study Group report under Dr Kay's replacement.

As I remember it - the decision to go to war seemed to have already been made and proceeded regardless of any conciliatory gestures by Saddam. Iraq accepted UN Resolution 1441 on November 13th 2002 and allowed weapons inspectors back into the country.

Only to inpede and obstruct the inspectors once they got back in. Besides, by that time Saddam already had his stuff hidden in the 4 years he had it to himself. Bush and Blair knew that. They knew they had to take care of Saddam. It's the only right thing to do considering Saddams history.

[GaryC 7]

Here is a snippet from part of the Duelfer report - specifically the section on Iraq's chemical weapons programs. The rest of the report is freely available online.

While a small number of old, abandoned chemical munitions have been discovered, ISG judges that Iraq

unilaterally destroyed its undeclared chemical weapons stockpile in 1991. There are no credible indications

that Baghdad resumed production of chemical munitions thereafter, a policy ISG attributes to Baghdad’s desire

to see sanctions lifted, or rendered ineffectual, or its fear of force against it should WMD be discovered.

• The scale of the Iraqi conventional munitions stockpile, among other factors, precluded an examination of

the entire stockpile; however, ISG inspected sites judged most likely associated with possible storage or

deployment of chemical weapons.

Iraq’s CW program was crippled by the Gulf war and the legitimate chemical industry, which suffered under

sanctions, only began to recover in the mid-1990s. Subsequent changes in the management of key military

and civilian organizations, followed by an infl ux of funding and resources, provided Iraq with the ability to

reinvigorate its industrial base.

• Poor policies and management in the early 1990s left the Military Industrial Commission (MIC) fi nancially

unsound and in a state of almost complete disarray.

<shakes head> You just will not see the forest for the trees. Ok, think what you will. But if you think Saddam destroyed his WMD's in the 4 years he had kicked out the inspectors I have to question your motives. Why would he kick them out and THEN destroy his WMD's? That makes no sense at all!!!! And then when we threaten to kick his azz he lets them back in only to play games with them, not letting them in one place for a few days and then letting them in.

Saddam knew that we were going to open a world of hurt on him. Why would he invite it like that? What reason would he have??

You want to know the real villan in all of this? Bill Clinton. While he was getting BJ's on the job the Taliban was taking over Afganistan. While he was flavoring his cigars, OBL and AQ were planning 9/11. While he was lying to the American people Saddam was kicking out the inspectors. While he was sending tomahawks into empty training camps Saddam was shooting at our planes. Clinton was an absent tee president. All of the bad things that have happened in the last 6 years got it's start while he was president. Bush inherited this mess and had to deal with it. Then to add insult to injury the left wing is blaming him! What a crock.

Finally! It's all Slick Willy's fault. Well done, Gary. Well done.

Of course, you could have just come out and said so much earlier...

It makes more sense than anything you have been saying.

To you, I'm sure, it does. But then remember that you're the last guy left on the planet that believes the fairytale that Saddam shipped his arsenal and facilities to Syria. Not that there's any shred of evidence. Seems to me that the oddest things make sense to you. How about that ole' area 51? Lemme guess: Clinton's fault.

I am not the only one. Most people that can think without hate think it is at least a possibility. You just want to blame Bush. Have at it. The job is started and you can't stop it. So what you think makes no difference at all. Thank God!!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Gary - the passage I quoted was from an Iraq Study Group report under Dr Kay's replacement.

As I remember it - the decision to go to war seemed to have already been made and proceeded regardless of any conciliatory gestures by Saddam. Iraq accepted UN Resolution 1441 on November 13th 2002 and allowed weapons inspectors back into the country.

Only to inpede and obstruct the inspectors once they got back in. Besides, by that time Saddam already had his stuff hidden in the 4 years he had it to himself. Bush and Blair knew that. They knew they had to take care of Saddam. It's the only right thing to do considering Saddams history.

Shame that subsequent events proved that their absolute assertions of fact were anything but. They didn't know much of anything definitive - blaming faulty intelligence for the gap. Of course there was talk of 'Cherry picking' on both sides of the Atlantic. I'm guessing you didn't get both perspectives.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Gary - the passage I quoted was from an Iraq Study Group report under Dr Kay's replacement.

As I remember it - the decision to go to war seemed to have already been made and proceeded regardless of any conciliatory gestures by Saddam. Iraq accepted UN Resolution 1441 on November 13th 2002 and allowed weapons inspectors back into the country.

Only to inpede and obstruct the inspectors once they got back in. Besides, by that time Saddam already had his stuff hidden in the 4 years he had it to himself. Bush and Blair knew that. They knew they had to take care of Saddam. It's the only right thing to do considering Saddams history.

Do you have evidence of that?

Here is a snippet from part of the Duelfer report - specifically the section on Iraq's chemical weapons programs. The rest of the report is freely available online.

While a small number of old, abandoned chemical munitions have been discovered, ISG judges that Iraq

unilaterally destroyed its undeclared chemical weapons stockpile in 1991. There are no credible indications

that Baghdad resumed production of chemical munitions thereafter, a policy ISG attributes to Baghdad’s desire

to see sanctions lifted, or rendered ineffectual, or its fear of force against it should WMD be discovered.

• The scale of the Iraqi conventional munitions stockpile, among other factors, precluded an examination of

the entire stockpile; however, ISG inspected sites judged most likely associated with possible storage or

deployment of chemical weapons.

Iraq’s CW program was crippled by the Gulf war and the legitimate chemical industry, which suffered under

sanctions, only began to recover in the mid-1990s. Subsequent changes in the management of key military

and civilian organizations, followed by an infl ux of funding and resources, provided Iraq with the ability to

reinvigorate its industrial base.

• Poor policies and management in the early 1990s left the Military Industrial Commission (MIC) fi nancially

unsound and in a state of almost complete disarray.

<shakes head> You just will not see the forest for the trees. Ok, think what you will. But if you think Saddam destroyed his WMD's in the 4 years he had kicked out the inspectors I have to question your motives. Why would he kick them out and THEN destroy his WMD's? That makes no sense at all!!!! And then when we threaten to kick his azz he lets them back in only to play games with them, not letting them in one place for a few days and then letting them in.

Saddam knew that we were going to open a world of hurt on him. Why would he invite it like that? What reason would he have??

You want to know the real villan in all of this? Bill Clinton. While he was getting BJ's on the job the Taliban was taking over Afganistan. While he was flavoring his cigars, OBL and AQ were planning 9/11. While he was lying to the American people Saddam was kicking out the inspectors. While he was sending tomahawks into empty training camps Saddam was shooting at our planes. Clinton was an absent tee president. All of the bad things that have happened in the last 6 years got it's start while he was president. Bush inherited this mess and had to deal with it. Then to add insult to injury the left wing is blaming him! What a crock.

Finally! It's all Slick Willy's fault. Well done, Gary. Well done.

Of course, you could have just come out and said so much earlier...

It makes more sense than anything you have been saying.

To you, I'm sure, it does. But then remember that you're the last guy left on the planet that believes the fairytale that Saddam shipped his arsenal and facilities to Syria. Not that there's any shred of evidence. Seems to me that the oddest things make sense to you. How about that ole' area 51? Lemme guess: Clinton's fault.

I am not the only one. Most people that can think without hate think it is at least a possibility. You just want to blame Bush. Have at it. The job is started and you can't stop it. So what you think makes no difference at all. Thank God!!

Always remember, I'm with Bush on this one: There were no WMD's.

You're the one in disagreement with the President over that point.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Here is a snippet from part of the Duelfer report - specifically the section on Iraq's chemical weapons programs. The rest of the report is freely available online.

While a small number of old, abandoned chemical munitions have been discovered, ISG judges that Iraq

unilaterally destroyed its undeclared chemical weapons stockpile in 1991. There are no credible indications

that Baghdad resumed production of chemical munitions thereafter, a policy ISG attributes to Baghdad’s desire

to see sanctions lifted, or rendered ineffectual, or its fear of force against it should WMD be discovered.

• The scale of the Iraqi conventional munitions stockpile, among other factors, precluded an examination of

the entire stockpile; however, ISG inspected sites judged most likely associated with possible storage or

deployment of chemical weapons.

Iraq’s CW program was crippled by the Gulf war and the legitimate chemical industry, which suffered under

sanctions, only began to recover in the mid-1990s. Subsequent changes in the management of key military

and civilian organizations, followed by an infl ux of funding and resources, provided Iraq with the ability to

reinvigorate its industrial base.

• Poor policies and management in the early 1990s left the Military Industrial Commission (MIC) fi nancially

unsound and in a state of almost complete disarray.

<shakes head> You just will not see the forest for the trees. Ok, think what you will. But if you think Saddam destroyed his WMD's in the 4 years he had kicked out the inspectors I have to question your motives. Why would he kick them out and THEN destroy his WMD's? That makes no sense at all!!!! And then when we threaten to kick his azz he lets them back in only to play games with them, not letting them in one place for a few days and then letting them in.

Saddam knew that we were going to open a world of hurt on him. Why would he invite it like that? What reason would he have??

You want to know the real villan in all of this? Bill Clinton. While he was getting BJ's on the job the Taliban was taking over Afganistan. While he was flavoring his cigars, OBL and AQ were planning 9/11. While he was lying to the American people Saddam was kicking out the inspectors. While he was sending tomahawks into empty training camps Saddam was shooting at our planes. Clinton was an absent tee president. All of the bad things that have happened in the last 6 years got it's start while he was president. Bush inherited this mess and had to deal with it. Then to add insult to injury the left wing is blaming him! What a crock.

Finally! It's all Slick Willy's fault. Well done, Gary. Well done.

Of course, you could have just come out and said so much earlier...

It makes more sense than anything you have been saying.

To you, I'm sure, it does. But then remember that you're the last guy left on the planet that believes the fairytale that Saddam shipped his arsenal and facilities to Syria. Not that there's any shred of evidence. Seems to me that the oddest things make sense to you. How about that ole' area 51? Lemme guess: Clinton's fault.

I am not the only one. Most people that can think without hate think it is at least a possibility. You just want to blame Bush. Have at it. The job is started and you can't stop it. So what you think makes no difference at all. Thank God!!

You can hardly call Iraq a success. Saddam is removed (OK - noone will miss him), but this has opened the door to violent religious extremists, iranian agents and tribal/factional feuding.

A success? Hardly. They killed the dragon, only to open up Pandora's box of unpleasant $hit.

And none of this changes the developments with regards to the strength of AQ in the OP post.

Iraq is a red-herring.

You're the one in disagreement with the President over that point.

And the Iraq study group report. Including a guy he quoted previously.

[GaryC 7]

You can hardly call Iraq a success. Saddam is removed (OK - noone will miss him), but this has opened the door to violent religious extremists, iranian agents and tribal/factional feuding.

A success? Hardly. They killed the dragon, only to open up Pandora's box of unpleasant $hit.

And none of this changes the developments with regards to the strength of AQ in the OP post.

Iraq is a red-herring.

Still, what should have been done has been done. Saddam is gone, Iraq will sort itself out as long as we are allowed to stay. It will take time but eventually a self supporting government will emerge.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Just to refresh your memory here are some headlines about the UN inspectors. Do you see a pattern?

! Update October 2002

Take a look here Gary at what the situation was in March 2003 - this is by far more relevant than what may or may not have gone on five years earlier:

SECURITY COUNCIL 7 MARCH 2003

Oral introduction of the 12th quarterly report of UNMOVIC

Executive Chairman Dr. Hans Blix

Mr. President,

For nearly three years, I have been coming to the Security Council presenting the quarterly reports of UNMOVIC. They have described our many preparations for the resumption of inspections in Iraq. The 12th quarterly report is the first that describes three months of inspections. They come after four years without inspections. The report was finalized ten days ago and a number of relevant events have taken place since then. Today’s statement will supplement the circulated report on these points to bring the Council up-to-date.

Inspection process

Inspections in Iraq resumed on 27 November 2002. In matters relating to process, notably prompt access to sites, we have faced relatively few difficulties and certainly much less than those that were faced by UNSCOM in the period 1991 to 1998. This may well be due to the strong outside pressure.

Some practical matters, which were not settled by the talks, Dr. ElBaradei and I had with the Iraqi side in Vienna prior to inspections or in resolution 1441 (2002), have been resolved at meetings, which we have had in Baghdad. Initial difficulties raised by the Iraqi side about helicopters and aerial surveillance planes operating in the no-fly zones were overcome. This is not to say that the operation of inspections is free from frictions, but at this juncture we are able to perform professional no-notice inspections all over Iraq and to increase aerial surveillance.

Full Report

Based on this report, it was nothing short of foolish and reckless to march in two weeks later. The disaster that Iraq has become and has been ever since - to this very day - proves that point. There was nothing right nor good about that illegal attack. Nothing. The inept management of the adventure just adds insult to injury.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Just goes to show that Bush et al weren't interested in any diplomatic solution - regardless of Saddam's compliance.

Last resort.... My #######!

[Ban Hammer 13,656]

maybe i shouldn't be surprised this is thread is still going.