The Return of Al Qaeda

[Heracles 417]

Given that you suggested previously that we should "drop the bomb" let me ask you this - Do you really think that ideology can be conquered by conventional military means?

Requires a simple yes/no answer.

Well it sure is not going to be solved by people criticizing anyone trying to do something.

I am still waiting for the non military solutions which involve trying to reason with people who kill their own women and children let alone anyone else.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I hope people who advocate dropping "the bomb" on terrorist centers within the Muslim world realize that they'd have to bomb London too.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

The authority to take out Saddam? Who gave him that authority?

The UN inspection was ongoing until the White House, not Saddam, told the UN to stop their activities and get the inspectors out. This was on March 16, 2003. Their work was hindered by Bush rather than Saddam. Always remember why the inspectors didn't find any WMD's: Saddam didn't have any. The sanctions had done the jb they were supposed to do and the world was weeks away from determining that. Bush just didn't want that determination to be made - would have taken away the support in the US for his illegal attack on that country.

Do you really believe that fairytale? Your memory is pretty short. Saddam would stop the inspectors at the front gate while he moved the contraband out the back gate. When he moved everything out then he let the inspectors in. He had WMD's. He hid them and at the end moved them to Syria. There is plenty of evidence for that but since we can't get into Syria it can't be proved.

But I'm the one believing in fairytales.

If there's plenty of evidence, then it can be proven. If it cannot be proven, then that would suggest a lack of evidence. Which is it, Gary? Take your pick.

As far the "fairytale" of the US rather than Saddam disrupting the work of the weapons inspectors in March of 2003, I think this fact is pretty well documented.

U.S advises weapons inspectors to leave Iraq

Posted 3/17/2003 5:40 AM

VIENNA, Austria (AP)

In the clearest sign yet that war with Iraq is imminent, the United States has advised U.N. weapons inspectors to begin pulling out of Baghdad, the U.N. nuclear agency chief said Monday.

...

ElBaradei, who has been monitoring the situation day to day, also confirmed that he and Blix had received an invitation from Baghdad "to visit Iraq with a view toward accelerating the implementation of our respective mandates." He did not say whether he or Blix had accepted.

"I should note that in recent weeks, possibly as a result of increasing pressure by the international community, Iraq has been more forthcoming in its cooperation with the IAEA," he said, adding that inspectors still have found no evidence that Saddam Hussein has revived his nuclear program.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/20...tors-iraq_x.htm

Edited July 12, 2007 by ET-US2004

[smoke20 0]

i'm still not clear on the WMD definition. if WMD is only nukes..they never found that evidence. but is WMD includes chemicals...ya he had them.

so what is the definition of WMD?

[smoke20 0]

damn number6, you've been posting for 15 minutes. hit the add reply

Edited July 12, 2007 by smoke20

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

A good start would be re-establishing ourselves in the international community and trying to repair some of the damage done to the US' reputation by the current administration. Likely that won't happen until after the election.

I already made clarified the point about diplomacy earlier - clearly its been ignored so I don't see the value in reiterating it yet again. Little profit to continually go round and round in bloody circles.

I think we also need to establish clearly what we're talking about here. There are 2 issues here that are being confused and indiscriminately lumped together - the Iraq War, and the future direction of the so-called War On Terror. As far as Iraq goes, horrible decision that it was - we broke that country and so have some obligation to restore it to some sort of order - hence as I said for all the calls to 'pull out' I think the options there are rather limited.

On the second point - I find it hard to believe that Iraq could (or should) be used as a justification for further unilateral military actions against other Middle-Eastern countries. That's what I see being implied here, that and the lack of distinction being drawn between countries where terrorists are known to operate more or less freely (e.g. Afghanistan/Pakistan/Somalia), and an ME country where Extremism has been imported and/or whipped up by the removal of its military dictator by military intervention (i.e. Iraq).

If indeed Iraq is an indication of how the war on terror will be fought in future - it seems frankly unjustifiable to me, given the problems in Iraq, the lack of WMD and the subsequent deterioration of the security situation there.

Here's what I believe will happen. No conclusive line will be drawn under the Iraq affair until after the Presidential election.

There won't be another unilateral war against another ME country short of another 9/11 type scenario. That said, the absence of the former doesn't imply the latter.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

i'm still not clear on the WMD definition. if WMD is only nukes..they never found that evidence. but is WMD includes chemicals...ya he had them.

so what is the definition of WMD?

Chemical. Biological. Nuclear.

They did indeed find Chemical agents in Iraq - and they were trumpeted on the news for a while to prove that the "yaysayers" were right. Unfortunately for them - the decaying, 15-year-old shells that were uncovered did not amount to the "active and growing research and development programme" which was claimed to exist by the administration. The smoking gun, still has not been found. To my knowledge at least.

[smoke20 0]

never mind number6 answered me.

Edited July 12, 2007 by smoke20

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

i'm still not clear on the WMD definition. if WMD is only nukes..they never found that evidence. but is WMD includes chemicals...ya he had them. so what is the definition of WMD?

ABC. What did he have?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I hope people who advocate dropping "the bomb" on terrorist centers within the Muslim world realize that they'd have to bomb London too.

There's always some yahoo who thinks the world can be saved by exploding nuclear weapons, not that I think they really believe it. A bit like saying "I'll kill you" to someone (but not actually meaning that you'll kill them)

[GaryC 7]

The authority to take out Saddam? Who gave him that authority?

The UN inspection was ongoing until the White House, not Saddam, told the UN to stop their activities and get the inspectors out. This was on March 16, 2003. Their work was hindered by Bush rather than Saddam. Always remember why the inspectors didn't find any WMD's: Saddam didn't have any. The sanctions had done the jb they were supposed to do and the world was weeks away from determining that. Bush just didn't want that determination to be made - would have taken away the support in the US for his illegal attack on that country.

Do you really believe that fairytale? Your memory is pretty short. Saddam would stop the inspectors at the front gate while he moved the contraband out the back gate. When he moved everything out then he let the inspectors in. He had WMD's. He hid them and at the end moved them to Syria. There is plenty of evidence for that but since we can't get into Syria it can't be proved.

But I'm the one believing in fairytales.

If there's plenty of evidence, then it can be proven. If it cannot be proven, then that would suggest a lack of evidence. Which is it, Gary? Take your pick.

As far the "fairytale" of the US rather than Saddam disrupting the work of the weapons inspectors in March of 2003, I think this fact is pretty well documented.

U.S advises weapons inspectors to leave Iraq

Posted 3/17/2003 5:40 AM

VIENNA, Austria (AP)

In the clearest sign yet that war with Iraq is imminent, the United States has advised U.N. weapons inspectors to begin pulling out of Baghdad, the U.N. nuclear agency chief said Monday.

...

ElBaradei, who has been monitoring the situation day to day, also confirmed that he and Blix had received an invitation from Baghdad "to visit Iraq with a view toward accelerating the implementation of our respective mandates." He did not say whether he or Blix had accepted.

"I should note that in recent weeks, possibly as a result of increasing pressure by the international community, Iraq has been more forthcoming in its cooperation with the IAEA," he said, adding that inspectors still have found no evidence that Saddam Hussein has revived his nuclear program.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/20...tors-iraq_x.htm

He had them, they were taken to Syria.

Iraq's WMD Secreted in Syria, Sada Says

By IRA STOLL

Staff Reporter of the Sun

January 26, 2006

A D V E R T I S E M E N T

A D V E R T I S E M E N T

The man who served as the no. 2 official in Saddam Hussein's air force says Iraq moved weapons of mass destruction into Syria before the war by loading the weapons into civilian aircraft in which the passenger seats were removed.

The Iraqi general, Georges Sada, makes the charges in a new book, "Saddam's Secrets," released this week. He detailed the transfers in an interview yesterday with The New York Sun.

"There are weapons of mass destruction gone out from Iraq to Syria, and they must be found and returned to safe hands," Mr. Sada said. "I am confident they were taken over."

Mr. Sada's comments come just more than a month after Israel's top general during Operation Iraqi Freedom, Moshe Yaalon, told the Sun that Saddam "transferred the chemical agents from Iraq to Syria."

Democrats have made the absence of stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq a theme in their criticism of the Bush administration's decision to go to war in 2003. And President Bush himself has conceded much of the point; in a televised prime-time address to Americans last month, he said, "It is true that many nations believed that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. But much of the intelligence turned out to be wrong."

Said Mr. Bush, "We did not find those weapons."

The discovery of the weapons in Syria could alter the American political debate on the Iraq war. And even the accusations that they are there could step up international pressure on the government in Damascus. That government, led by Bashar Assad, is already facing a U.N. investigation over its alleged role in the assassination of a former prime minister of Lebanon. The Bush administration has criticized Syria for its support of terrorism and its failure to cooperate with the U.N. investigation.

The State Department recently granted visas for self-proclaimed opponents of Mr. Assad to attend a "Syrian National Council" meeting in Washington scheduled for this weekend, even though the attendees include communists, Baathists, and members of the Islamist Muslim Brotherhood group to the exclusion of other, more mainstream groups.

Mr. Sada, 65, told the Sun that the pilots of the two airliners that transported the weapons of mass destruction to Syria from Iraq approached him in the middle of 2004, after Saddam was captured by American troops.

"I know them very well. They are very good friends of mine. We trust each other. We are friends as pilots," Mr. Sada said of the two pilots. He declined to disclose their names, saying they are concerned for their safety. But he said they are now employed by other airlines outside Iraq.

The pilots told Mr. Sada that two Iraqi Airways Boeings were converted to cargo planes by removing the seats, Mr. Sada said. Then Special Republican Guard brigades loaded materials onto the planes, he said, including "yellow barrels with skull and crossbones on each barrel." The pilots said there was also a ground convoy of trucks.

The flights - 56 in total, Mr. Sada said - attracted little notice because they were thought to be civilian flights providing relief from Iraq to Syria, which had suffered a flood after a dam collapse in June of 2002.

"Saddam realized, this time, the Americans are coming," Mr. Sada said. "They handed over the weapons of mass destruction to the Syrians."

Mr. Sada said that the Iraqi official responsible for transferring the weapons was a cousin of Saddam Hussein named Ali Hussein al-Majid, known as "Chemical Ali." The Syrian official responsible for receiving them was a cousin of Bashar Assad who is known variously as General Abu Ali, Abu Himma, or Zulhimawe.

Short of discovering the weapons in Syria, those seeking to validate Mr. Sada's claim independently will face difficulty. His book contains a foreword by a retired U.S. Air Force colonel, David Eberly, who was a prisoner of war in Iraq during the first Gulf War and who vouches for Mr. Sada, who once held him captive, as "an honest and honorable man."

In his visit to the Sun yesterday, Mr. Sada was accompanied by Terry Law, the president of a Tulsa, Oklahoma based Christian humanitarian organization called World Compassion. Mr. Law said he has known Mr. Sada since 2002, lived in his house in Iraq and had Mr. Sada as a guest in his home in America. "Do I believe this man? Yes," Mr. Law said. "It's been solid down the line and everything checked out."

Said Mr. Law, "This is not a publicity hound. This is a man who wants peace putting his family on the line."

Mr. Sada acknowledged that the disclosures about transfers of weapons of mass destruction are "a very delicate issue." He said he was afraid for his family. "I am sure the terrorists will not like it. The Saddamists will not like it," he said.

He thanked the American troops. "They liberated the country and the nation. It is a liberation force. They did a great job," he said. "We have been freed."

He said he had not shared his story until now with any American officials. "I kept everything secret in my heart," he said. But he is scheduled to meet next week in Washington with Senators Sessions and Inhofe, Republicans of, respectively, Alabama and Oklahoma. Both are members of the Senate Armed Services Committee.

The book also says that on the eve of the first Gulf War, Saddam was planning to use his air force to launch a chemical weapons attack on Israel.

When, during an interview with the Sun in April 2004, Vice President Cheney was asked whether he thought that Iraqi weapons of mass destruction had been moved to Syria, Mr. Cheney replied only that he had seen such reports.

An article in the Fall 2005 Middle East Quarterly reports that in an appearance on Israel's Channel 2 on December 23, 2002, Israel's prime minister, Ariel Sharon, stated, "Chemical and biological weapons which Saddam is endeavoring to conceal have been moved from Iraq to Syria." The allegation was denied by the Syrian government at the time as "completely untrue," and it attracted scant American press attention, coming as it did on the eve of the Christmas holiday.

The Syrian ruling party and Saddam Hussein had in common the ideology of Baathism, a mixture of Nazism and Marxism.

Syria is one of only eight countries that has not signed the Chemical Weapons Convention, a treaty that obligates nations not to stockpile or use chemical weapons. Syria's chemical warfare program, apart from any weapons that may have been received from Iraq, has long been the source of concern to America, Israel, and Lebanon. In March 2004, the director of Central Intelligence, George Tenet, testified before the Senate Armed Services Committee, saying, "Damascus has an active CW development and testing program that relies on foreign suppliers for key controlled chemicals suitable for producing CW."

The CIA's Iraq Survey Group acknowledged in its September 30, 2004, "Comprehensive Report," "we cannot express a firm view on the possibility that WMD elements were relocated out of Iraq prior to the war. Reports of such actions exist, but we have not yet been able to investigate this possibility thoroughly."

Mr. Sada is an unusual figure for an Iraqi general as he is a Christian and was not a member of the Baath Party. He now directs the Iraq operations of the Christian humanitarian organization, World Compassion.

http://www.nysun.com/article/26514

Saddam had them but the fact they were taken out just before the war has been suppressed because it would take away the lefts main hammer. The dems are only interested in getting and holding power. They have no interest in our national security if it means supporting Bush. They are all cowards and are beneath contempt.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Saddam had them ...

Bush disagrees with you.

Here is an excerpt from a Press Conference he held on August 21 2006. These are his words, taken from whitehouse.gov. This is not the interpretation or the wet dream of some pinko reporter:

Now, look, part of the reason we went into Iraq was -- the main reason we went into Iraq at the time was we thought he had weapons of mass destruction. It turns out he didn't...

Source: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/20...8/20060821.html

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Saddam had them but the fact they were taken out just before the war has been suppressed because it would take away the lefts main hammer. The dems are only interested in getting and holding power. They have no interest in our national security if it means supporting Bush. They are all cowards and are beneath contempt.

Hmmm... that sounds rather spurious IMO. Where is the evidence that a) the WMD was removed and B) that evidence has been suppressed by Democrat politicians and the press? Not rumours mind (of which there are plenty), but hard, physical evidence. It hasn't been reported because there isn't any. Good few theories abound; theories which may be correct, but which can't be proven.

Edited July 13, 2007 by Number 6

[Scott & Lai 12]

So, everything General Sada says was fabricated?

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

So, everything General Sada says was fabricated?

Who are you going to believe, some third world general or your own President?

President Bush: Now, look, part of the reason we went into Iraq was -- the main reason we went into Iraq at the time was we thought he had weapons of mass destruction. It turns out he didn't...